Why are there no Japanese sandbox games?
- Thread starter Voltano
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Japanese developers prefer a more narrow focus on particular elements in a game than Western developers. Of course, as a cultural product, a videogame reflects the market and the culture from which it came.
I still think that the crucial trend of the latest generation of videogames is the relative decline in the creativity and impact of Japanese-developed games on the West -I must accentuate the word "relative" because the Japanese title "Demons's Souls" was still many people's game of last year.
I still think that the crucial trend of the latest generation of videogames is the relative decline in the creativity and impact of Japanese-developed games on the West -I must accentuate the word "relative" because the Japanese title "Demons's Souls" was still many people's game of last year.
Yakuza ************! Go play it now! There are only 4 out already.
But it's true there are slim pickings in that area, they never lack on teenage angst tho...
But it's true there are slim pickings in that area, they never lack on teenage angst tho...
It's simple the Japanese gamers seem tend to prefer a more restricted gaming style to western gamers. In fact the evolution of the MGS series was actually based on western feedback on the series not.Voltano said:
The long and short of is that Japanese gamers like few options and find ways to over come challenges. While western gamers prefer to have multiple option to over come said challenges.
Once again check out the MGS series compare MGS1 and it's options with MGS4 and there is a serious increase in options. I know it's not anything to do with sand box games but it does show the difference between a game aimed at the Japanese and a game aimed at a Western audience.
GTA has a linear story, with branching lines. But, also:mitsurya said:
Saint's Row 1, 2, 3
True Crime
RDR
LA Noire
State of Emergency
inFAMOUS
Where is this mythical non-linear sandbox game you describe?
Every sandbox game I listed also has dicking around. Name one that does not.
GTA has a linear story, with branching lines. But, also:mitsurya said:
Saint's Row 1, 2, 3
True Crime
RDR
LA Noire
State of Emergency
inFAMOUS
Where is this mythical non-linear sandbox game you describe?
Every sandbox game I listed also has dicking around. Name one that does not.
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Of course, and once the army got sent in and they made you die in a fire or you evaded them or successfully stole their tank for more dicking around in a frikken tank... once you were blown up or whatever, you'd respawn in the hospital or what have you...
....and the entire world acted as if nothing happened.
Compare this to oblivion (not a sandbox game) where if you went on a killing spree and killed all the villagers in a town, then the guards who came after you... well, either you'd end up game over'd, or you'd end up with guards wanting to incarcerate you for your heinous murder spree... and a town that is now devoid of life. There's no 'impunity' there... there's no 'pretend it never happened.'
Maybe it's a physiological thing, (I don't pretend to know about this sort of thing) but their minds may require more of a constant thinking topic, which Sandbox games never provide, too much time spent travelling. It's like in Final Fantasy, constant crisis, one after the other.
Just a theory.
Just a theory.
They don't make many sandbox games because most sandboxes don't have anything to do in most of it. They probably don't see a big reason to bother.
This.Swifty714 said:
The key element is that sandboxes make that dicking around a natural part of gameplay. I mean... playing LA Noire, every so often... you just gotta do dumb shit in an old 50s car. The temptation is always there, and suddenly... bam. Dicking around.
And, even in GTA... the game never says 'okay stop dicking around.' Even when the army comes and murderdeathkills you... how often does a trip to the hospital make you stop dicking around? Do you go 'Okay, I died, time to be serious' or do you go 'WHOA AWESOME' and try to find new ways to blow yourself up?
And hell, look at one of the most popular sandgames around:
Minecraft.
There's nothing in that game BUT dicking around.
The sandbox isn't about the narrative, it's about having a huge area to just play in.
I mean... that's implied in the frikken name of them. Sandbox.
Fallout new vegasDracoSuave said:
okay i'll admit you got me there, but as far as i can see game developers put in stupid stuff like sidequests and minigames to make the world feel more padded out, rather than just a way of getting from plot point to plot point
Prototype depicted an actual american city, and we like sandboxes to depict places that could actually be real. Japan on the other hand is either completely cramped with buildings and people, or there's nothing there. Not sure, but that might be one minor factor.
The main issue i think is that they'd rather actually see some progress with each game session instead of just fucking around for x hours and not have any story progress. So i think they have a differnt idea of what staisfies them. While we'd rather dick around and blow shit up they'd rather resolve a problem and make some progress for the (virtual) greater good.
Just a thought.
The main issue i think is that they'd rather actually see some progress with each game session instead of just fucking around for x hours and not have any story progress. So i think they have a differnt idea of what staisfies them. While we'd rather dick around and blow shit up they'd rather resolve a problem and make some progress for the (virtual) greater good.
Just a thought.
From where i've seen it, the Japanese gaming market focuses less on linear construction more than anything. Japanese games tend to have a more 'branching' story with a larger character dynamic, whereas the game itself is linear to a fault. Crono Trigger, the Persona games or any visual novel out there can attest to that.
American games, up until recently, were the other way around. They gave players dozens of ways to solve a problem, yet only one 'canon' story that is followed regardless of that situation. It wasn't until games like Deus Ex or Baldur's Gate came out, allowing the player to essentially craft what their character would be like as they went along.
As games became more advanced, the 'sandbox' as we know it today took the original western aesthetic to it's logical conclusion, namely an open world where any number of solutions were present, but a static story flow leading a character through checkpoints in development; or games that allow a massive range of character dynamic while dragging the player from one point to the other in what is an essentially fixed system [Mass Effect, Dragon Age].
The Japanese model, however, wasn't that conductive to a sandbox game, as their market still buys mostly in the branching story/large narrative type of game. It's the reason 'Square-Enix' disease permeates their video games. They'd rather have a beautiful, moving story rather than beautiful, moving action.
The closest i've seen the two come together is most likely L.A. Noire, with it's great storytelling and truckload of scenes mixed with an open explorable world.
American games, up until recently, were the other way around. They gave players dozens of ways to solve a problem, yet only one 'canon' story that is followed regardless of that situation. It wasn't until games like Deus Ex or Baldur's Gate came out, allowing the player to essentially craft what their character would be like as they went along.
As games became more advanced, the 'sandbox' as we know it today took the original western aesthetic to it's logical conclusion, namely an open world where any number of solutions were present, but a static story flow leading a character through checkpoints in development; or games that allow a massive range of character dynamic while dragging the player from one point to the other in what is an essentially fixed system [Mass Effect, Dragon Age].
The Japanese model, however, wasn't that conductive to a sandbox game, as their market still buys mostly in the branching story/large narrative type of game. It's the reason 'Square-Enix' disease permeates their video games. They'd rather have a beautiful, moving story rather than beautiful, moving action.
The closest i've seen the two come together is most likely L.A. Noire, with it's great storytelling and truckload of scenes mixed with an open explorable world.
I'm kinda iffy on the sandbox aspect of it, due to the fact that you don't have total freedom to do as you like. It's a pretty open ended game tho, so you know what? I'll relent this one.mitsurya said:
okay i'll admit you got me there, but as far as i can see game developers put in stupid stuff like sidequests and minigames to make the world feel more padded out, rather than just a way of getting from plot point to plot point[/quote]
Sidequests don't define sandboxes tho. They're not essential, you can have them absent and still have it be a sandbox.
sandboxes aren't about the narrative, any more than first person shooters are about the narrative. Having a narrative helps make a good sandbox good, but in reality, it's the ability to just up and do whatever you like and NOT worry about the narrative. And not just the ability to do so... but that the process of dicking around is its own emergent playstyle.
It isn't enough that you CAN go around and do whatever you like... you can do that in almost any game. Sure... in metroid, I can just ignore the game and run around and shoot things for no reason. But metroid doesn't -reward- that. Metroid isn't about that. It's about exploring and hunting and looking for little goals and secrets.
Sandboxes tho? Not about that. You're not driving around in the car necessarily to look for secrsts (tho obviously they do exist). You're not doing it because holy crap I just found a power up and now I'm a little stronger. You're doing it because driving that car around IS the point. You're driving it up stairs because you want to drive things up stairs. You're running around with a rocket launcher blowing up orphanages because you have a rocket launcher, and the orphanages burn so well.
There's NO goal to it. There's NO purpose. It's just going out and playing around. That's the difference between a sandbox and other games... the sandbox is MADE for you to do this. Other games are not.
So fallout is a sand box game and oblivion is not? Sure they might not be pure sand box but they certainly are sand box lite.DracoSuave said:
