why are there no WW1 games?

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Schizzy

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Major Tom said:
If SimCity can make collecting taxes and managing accounts, traffic, sewage and electricity fun, then I'm sure we can make a good game out of one of the greatest conflicts of our time. Though I am surprised that a WWI flight sim hasn't come out in recent years. Considering all the flight models around today that simulate modern aircraft and all their doohickeys, and the very basic attributes of early aircraft you'd think it would be dead easy to whip one up put one out.
Ha... I think it would be difficult to use realistic flight models for WWI planes and still make it appealing to play the game. If I remember right, all the pioneer combat pilots often dreaded the take off and landing bits more than actual gunfire :p

On the other than, that doesn't really sound that bad at all.
 

Blue22

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Nazi's weren't in WWI, and everybody knows that Nazi's are one of the best bullet targets, closley followed by aliens and zombies. Also, trench warfare would be boring in-game.
 

suhlEap

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ThePeiceOfEden said:
suhlEap said:
there were other parts to the war than just trenches though. it's not like the entire thing was solely fought in trenches.

Lios said:
There are a few of them, but it's a war most people would rather forget about.
and why do people want to forget that when there were so many more atrocities in WW2?
beacuse of the people that died was a lot of folk.
i'm sorry? i don't understand what you mean.
Schizzy said:
Major Tom said:
If SimCity can make collecting taxes and managing accounts, traffic, sewage and electricity fun, then I'm sure we can make a good game out of one of the greatest conflicts of our time. Though I am surprised that a WWI flight sim hasn't come out in recent years. Considering all the flight models around today that simulate modern aircraft and all their doohickeys, and the very basic attributes of early aircraft you'd think it would be dead easy to whip one up put one out.
Ha... I think it would be difficult to use realistic flight models for WWI planes and still make it appealing to play the game. If I remember right, all the pioneer combat pilots often dreaded the take off and landing bits more than actual gunfire :p

On the other than, that doesn't really sound that bad at all.
i guess the take off/landing wouldn't have to be realistic. a game where you crashed before you took off would be poor :p
but i think this could work. though i don't know a lot about the air battles in WW1.
 

WolfThomas

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Best xbox achievement ever would be:

"Wait could that have been...?"
Kill an enemy NPC that looks like Hitler
 

Aeviv

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Major Tom said:
MortisLegio said:
fine... would you (in a game) sit for hours at a time stuck in water filled trenches, getting gang green, dying every time you go charging across the no mans land, choking on chlorine and mustard gas, seeing machines that you have little chance of winning against charge you, artillary shells bursting just above your head (killing you) knowing that no good come from this war only death and a second world war.
You do realise that, aside from the chemicals, troops had very much the same problems in WWII? As I said before, in the Pacific for every 1 man wounded in combat, 10 were down with sickness. But WWII games, you know, cut out the boring bits. Why can't a WWI game do the same?
He's got the right idea
 

Wadders

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Arbitrary Cidin said:
The fact that I'd need a textbook to learn anything means it isn't interesting. Who discovered carpel tunnel? Hell if I know because that's boring. I bet a History Textbook would tell you, though. Then you look at WW2 with D-day, Operation Valkyrie, the Holocaust. Half of World War 2's lore is emblazoned into an American child's mind before they learn about it in school. Why? Because it's interesting and filled with action in every moment. I'm not saying that WW1 was an uneventful crapfest... it was a war, which is always serious business, but as far as wars go, it was bleak and boring. If you or The Tommy are honestly trying to hold WW1's events up to the intensity of WW2, then you're both delusional. As I've said, it's not interesting enough for a video game. The only way to make a semi-decent WW1 game would be to make it terribly inaccurate and exaggerated in terms of combat. From a marketing perspective... how many people in this thread like the idea? How many think it's a bad idea? Do you honestly think that example shows that game producers would be prudent in making a WW1 game when the vast majority of the gaming community thinks it's a stupid idea to begin with?
Paragraphs. Use them.

So just because you didn't lean about it in school, it isn't worthy of your attention? That is lazy, disrespectful and short sighted.

In Britain, we learn a lot about WW1 in school, because it IS a huge part of our history. You cant dismiss it just because its not such a big deal in your country. I bet if you HAD been taught about it in school, you wouldn't be on here talking out of your ass like you are now.
Here in the UK, we lost about 8 times more soldiers than the USA in WW1. Also, where the fuck did WW2 come from? We're discussing WW1. In isolation. I don't recall saying that WW1 was more interesting than WW2, which is what you are insinuating.

Also, we have discussed possible options for game play for a First World War game, and they seem varied enough, and not massively far removed from reality. And who said 100% historical accuracy was a big deal anyway? Call of Duty is pure Hollywood in game form. They take plenty of liberties I'm sure.

As far as people on this thread go, I've seen a fair few people who have showed interest. My 3 easy steps still stand. That is all.
 

Wadders

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BrynThomas said:
Best xbox achievement ever would be:

"Wait could that have been...?"
Kill an enemy NPC that looks like Hitler
Hahha, that would be amazing! It would be pretty tricky though. I think he was a messenger or something, riding around on a bike, so a moving target would be harder to get :p
 

MikeOfThunder

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Because... the weaponary in world war one was not as advanced as the second. Plus there was no true 'evil force' behind one of the sides. Its easy to kill Nazis because they are the very worst of our kind and are seen as a symbol of sheer evil. There is none of that in world war one.
 

timmytom1

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BrynThomas said:
Here's how I think it could be done, a combination of scripted scenes, but mostly procedurally generated stuff.

The game would start with a pretty standard tutorial, learning how to use rifles, grenades etc. But emphasizing the rigid social structure at the time and the colonial jingoism at the start "tut, tut the war will be over by christmas and we won't have given the kraut a sufficient walloping". This of course would all change throughout the game. You'd probably be a reserve officer or something, fresh faced and straight out of school.

The first mission would be heavily scripted, you getting ready to go over the top for a charge. The atmosphere would be incredibly tense, from the music, the soldiers muttering and the sound of artillery fire. You'd feel scared of going over the top.

Then you'd leap over and run through no man's land while machine guns and artillery obliterate everyone around you horrifically, not a cinematic but rather if you bother to turn to the left you'll see a couple of men ripped to pieces by machine gun fire. Eventually a shell would land near you and you'd pass out.

You'd awake in hospital for a brief moment before it blacks out.

Now the bulk of the game would be about a single large area, your lines (+ no man's land and the germans) and perhaps the nearest village you billet at while on rest.

The game would a fps with rpg elements like STALKER, there'd be NPCs from officers who'd issue you orders, to supply clerks or medical officers who ask you favours (like bringing them so much of x) and just soldiers with great accents and funny senses of humour.

At your lines you'd be able to walk around reasonably safely, you'd have to be careful and crouch through sniper trouble spots, wade through the muck with rats and every now and then you'd hear the crump of artillery and have to seek cover or hit the bottom of the trench.

No man's land would be ever changing and initially very frightening, but eventually you'd begin to learn safe spots, good sniper vantages and the quickest routes as you went out on night patrols. It would change each sometimes not by much, at other times huge differences. Every now and then a flare would go up illuminating the whole area before fading leaving it darker then it was before until your eye readjust.

Missions would consist of repelling German attacks (sometimes fighting in the trenches), assisting artillery and mortars, sniping the German lines, scouting no man's land, ambushing patrols in no man's land, retrieving wounded and dead, and off course attacking the enemie's line.

You wouldn't go over the top often in an all out assault, but you'd dread every time, sometimes you'd be successful and hold a trench, until your relieved or ordered to pull out, but inevitably you'd lose it, and you may even get badly wounded/die. When you got killed in game, you'd later wake up in hospital being told you'd been bravely rescued and dragged back. If this happened too many times the game would end with you being sent home crippled or actually dieing and you'd have to reload a save or checkpoint.

After every "big show" npcs you'd gotten to know might be crippled/dead, this would be random and depend on what happened in the fight. You might hate certain officers and almost be happy when they bought the farm or change your opinion about them when they do something amazingly heroic. A NPC you like might make you think of doing something risky in the hope of saving them. A wounded NPC might right you letters from hospital or from home if they are crippled.

As the war progressed the nature of combat would adapt, you'd eventually have plane and tank support.

Weapon wise you'd be able to carry three type of weapon:

Primary:
Simple bolt action rifle (both English and German) and would have the advantage of a bayonet
Scoped bolt action rifle
Lewis Gun (later in the game)
Double barreled shotgun (perhaps as award for side questions)
Pump action shot gun (side quest)
Anti-tank rifle (agains later in game)
BAR rifle (later)
Prototype submachine guns (sidequest + later in game)

Secondary
Webley revolver
Mauser semi-automatic or a Luger(captured from Germans)
Colt 1911 (later in war)

Melee:
Bayonet
Bowie knife (captured from germans)
Cosh (steel rod rapped in leather favoured by English)
Improvised trench clubs
Officer's swords
Sharpened shovels
and more stuff

Your pistol and melee could be used together at times. You would also carry a couple of grenades.

A heavy element of combat would be the melee side, either a brutal scuffle in the confined space of a trench or silent killing in the dark of no man's land. You'd be able to perform melee attack like elbowing and kicking like in condemned also.

The gun play wouldn't necessarily be slow paced, I mean Call of Juarez make even older and slower weapons quite exciting. Player would have to get to trying to be accurate and maintain cover before closing in violently with bayonet or shovel.

I should also mention gas and disease. If pushed though gas would create in game, impassible spots in no man's land and another thing you have to worry about on your lines, you'd have to run get a crude gas mask or something.

Disease, could be mentioned quite often (by medical officers, NCOs etc), but would be harder to implement in the actual play. At most things like trench foot and respiratory infection could be implemented as restrictions to running speed, health etc. But anything worse might have to skip by your character, for the shake of maintaining the story.

I've also been thinking that environment having effects on your clothing could be implemented quite well. You start each day with a pristine (well at least cleaner) seat of clothes, each time you hit the dirt and land in mud, the clothing gets dirty, can get torn when going through wire and bloodstained in combat.

Sample from game:
Imagine this, its a few hours before dawn but very illuminated by the full moon, you and two other soldiers crawl up the side of a crater, you see German's placing heavy rolls of wire over the edge. The three of you pick a target and fire simultaneously before firing off the more rounds rapidly and throwing crude grenades, this met with screams of anguish and surprise.

Without a moment to appreciate your work you fling youself back into the crater as machine gun fire rakes the top. Scrambling down the slop and wading through the water of the shell crater, you start to run stumblingly as you hear the "fwoop" of a mortar. You get out of the crater just as an explosion lands nearby.

You get separated from your two comrades who are hightailing it back to lines, when you dive into another artillery crater, this one filled with corpses from a previous attack. As you peer over the edge of the crater prone, a noise behind you makes you start to turn. One of the corpses isn't dead (rather he was hiding) and his hands are wrapped around your throat. Your rifle gets knocked out of your hands. You draw your revolver and pull the trigger, but with all the water and mud its doesn't fire. Rapidly, as the screen goes back, you click to slam the butt into his head. His fingers loosen and you realize once again you're the only living man in this crater.

That would be something to talk about around the water cooler.

I wonder if suhlEap expected this to get so huge...
I like a lot of the ideas you`ve mentionned the only one i have any doubts about is the crippled if taken down too many times one,do you mean too many times over the course of the whle game? or just over a single mission as being left with what would be ,for lack of a better word "lives" over the course of the entire game could leave a lot of people in unwinnable situations i think far cry 2`s buddy system would be best borrowed from here .having them save you once a mission and if you get shot down after that you die and have to start at a checkpoint.

However the crippled thing should be included ,perhaps one of the game could end with the lead character crippled? or have situations where freinds of the character are crippled?
 

Wadders

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Just a thought that came to me, but you could have a section where you play as a runner (like one of these [http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o230/tonmeg/PteCFewkesmateFrance1918.jpg] lads) could be interesting.

You could be tasked with delivering a vital message to an officer a fair distance away, and would need to cross enemy fire. You could also be paired up with another runner (it happened as far as I'm aware) which could make for some interesting narrative. Maybe you get separated on the way back, and you go looking for your mate, armed only with your trusty Webley, and end up in a sticky situation with some Germans.

Or perhaps you could somehow stumble across a previously unknown enemy artillery emplacement being set up, and you have to get back to your superiors to report it (it was also often the job of runners to have an excellent knowledge of the trench systems, landscape, plan of attack etc.) which would make for some good stealthy gameplay.

I'm sure a small amount of historical accuracy could be suspended for the purposes of kick ass game play :p Hell, the Call of Duty/ Medal of Honour franchises sure take liberties :p


Either way, I reckon it would be a fun addition to the game and would provide some fast paced, exciting and tense sequences, that are a little different from just running and gunning (or in the case of trench raiders, coshing :p ) as well as fitting in with the open/ ever changing no mans land idea that has been suggested above, as you could choose and plan your own route :)
 
Aug 18, 2009
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RAKtheUndead said:
awesomebillfromdawsonville said:
They didn't have DEagles. Noone wants to play a game without DEagles, son. LOL
I know you're being facetious, but the Desert Eagle is one of the most over-rated firearms ever made. The only thing it has in its favour is a large cartridge. It's overweight, has a lousy magazine capacity and it's oversized to boot.
Awesomebillfromdawsonville = Ex US Armed Forces personnel. I already know. I couldn't possibly favor a hand cannon with low accuracy, a damn near 7lb heft and it's bulk. If it ever made it's way into my pack for whatever reason (not that it's standard issue or anything) it'd be used as a bludgeoning weapon rather than a firearm. I've been forced to make the M9 my comfortable handgun, but truly my passion lies with .40 caliber firearms. Things like the P8 or USP Elite for example. (God bless H&K) Besides, a 9 round magazine (for .357 cal rounds) is hardly comparable to a 13 round mag. The caliber round that made the "DEagle" famous, the .50, only holds 7 rounds in an AE clip. I just like poking fun at "DEagles" because of the little retarded kids that play R6V2. Or played. I dont know if anyone plays that anymore.
 

The Tommy

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The Tommy said:
mightybozz said:
I think the main reason there are no ww1 games is because as a conflict it's far harder to boil down to simple good v evil. Designers of WW2 games can largely ignore plot because so long as the player is killing nazis they're supposed to have a sense of achievement over a largely unambiguously evil foe. But WWI was essentially a horrific diplomatic cock-up between superpowers with an attitude towards their fellow man that should have died in the 1700s. Germany, France, the UK, Holland, Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and every other country that got involved had no genocidal aims, but just had more guns than sense.

The reality that so many lives were wasted for no real objective means a game would have to be sensitive in dealing with the subject matter. But it could be done, and could be a huge step forward for games as an art form. Just so long as killing the enemy you also get to take part in the football match from christmas 1914.
This is VERY true. The Allies saw aggressive Prussian militarism as their evil and the Central Powers saw themselves struggling against the world keeping them out of prosperity.

I agree that it would be a challenge to make a scenario/story set amidst it. To support what you said, designers have gotten quite lazy with gameplay and story/setting with WWII because they know it will sell. When you take a risk on a period not well known and largely disparaged for stupidity, designers will be forced to bring all their talents to the fold and produce something truly groundbreaking instead of the run and gun save the world take down that WWII has sadly become.

A WWI game wouldn't be about saving the world but rather your character and your mates.
The topic of the evil force seems to be a popular theme. I would say while Prussian militarism wasn't even close to Fascism in either evil doing or ideology, I'd say that the Imperial Germans as enemies could suffice for a formidable foe.
 

The Tommy

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Wadders said:
Either way, I reckon it would be a fun addition to the game and would provide some fast paced, exciting and tense sequences, that are a little different from just running and gunning (or in the case of trench raiders, coshing :p ) as well as fitting in with the open/ ever changing no mans land idea that has been suggested above, as you could choose and plan your own route :)
Do you like this idea?
The Tommy said:

Here's a mission:

You walk up to the Company HQ dugout in the reserve line in the large explorable map. You approach the CO (NPC) and receive orders for going on a trench raid at night. You will be aided by a diversion of a mortar bombardment further down the line. The game upon you accepting the mission skips to the night. You pick the characters in you platoon that you wish to take. Usually no more than five or so. You are able to pick out whatever weapons you want for the job. Pistol, trench clubs of all sorts and even being able to design your own, grenades, bayonets, shovels, etc. Then you must set out and crawl across no man's land. While very tense music plays in and out, a German Very light (flare) goes up across the sky. You must get down and seek cover for about 15-30 seconds for the flare to die out and then move forward. You must be careful for if you move too quickly you may be heard or spotted when you start to close in. You can hear the Germans quietly talking and possibly eating, patrolling.

Then the distant crump of your companies trench mortars distracts the German line. Some of the sentries leave their post to see. Most are looking in the other direction. Then you enter the enemy trench. You dispatch the first sentry with bayonet. Then your lads (cloaked in face paint balaclavas and the like) will rush forward and help you wipe the other guards as you quickly make your way to the German CO dugout. You then point you pistol at the commander who will either surrender because of your quick approach or fight you and possibly die. In which case you'll have to abort the mission and the objective is to get back with your squad alive.

If you capture the officer you instruct him to follow you and then you are responsible for getting the hell out the way you came. Depending on your skill and speed you can get the prisoner, intel and ruin the Hun's day, or lose your squad mates and possibly yourself.

Your immediate reward for the mission will be ammo, customizing options for weapons, promotion and command of more men in the Company.

1/8th Kings Liverpool 1916 near Arras. Trench raiders
 

The Tommy

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Most people are under the impression that you'd just stand around all day. There were plenty of things to do, and commanders often tried to keep their men sharp and intel coming in by conducting these raids. As Richard Holmes commented once these lads take on a "piratical" appearance.
 

Wadders

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The Tommy said:
Do you like this idea?
Yes. Yes I do. It sounds like something out of a film, pretty epic really. Customizing your squad sounds like fun too :)

Well, with trench raider missions, and runner sections (I'm quite attached to that idea now :p) theres plenty to be doing, as well as more orthodox fps style levels. The nay sayers have no idea :p

The Tommy said:
outcast_within said:
nice helmet
souvenir!! I'm sure he'd agree with you!

Judging by the Eagle crest on the front its from a Prussian Regiment.
As I said before, I'd love to hear how those 2 guys got their hands on Pickelhaube helmets. the one belonging to the bloke in the top row on the right is less shiny than the other one though :(