Why aren't there more TES type games?
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They're expensive as shit and complex as Hell from a development standpoint. Open-world RPGs along the lines of Oblivion or Skyrim require a multi-tiered mastery of game design that's mostly flawless, or else you're left with a few (or several) niggling flaws in the final product.
Consider Risen 2, for instance. The building blocks are there, but the leveling system is god-awful. Consider Dragon's Dogma. While still better than expected, the hackneyed fast-travel mechanic smacks of lasting incompetence from a developer who just isn't used to this sort of overall design. JRPGs have always been more or less straight corridor-crawlers, and here they go attempting an open-world structure.
The couple issues with Dragon's Dogma are probably going to be ironed out in the sequel. If the game does warrant a sequel.
Consider the Fable series. It tries its hand at appearing to be open-ended, but stumbles far too often, such as in the linear level designs and the constant inclusion of invisible walls.
I don't have the exact figures, but I think Skyrim cost around five or six mil to make, and just about as many years. This is why open-world RPGs of a Bethesda-ish level of quality are rare. It's a lot easier to build a straight-up linear RPG for a fraction of the time, and perhaps a fraction of that cost, as well.
Consider Risen 2, for instance. The building blocks are there, but the leveling system is god-awful. Consider Dragon's Dogma. While still better than expected, the hackneyed fast-travel mechanic smacks of lasting incompetence from a developer who just isn't used to this sort of overall design. JRPGs have always been more or less straight corridor-crawlers, and here they go attempting an open-world structure.
The couple issues with Dragon's Dogma are probably going to be ironed out in the sequel. If the game does warrant a sequel.
Consider the Fable series. It tries its hand at appearing to be open-ended, but stumbles far too often, such as in the linear level designs and the constant inclusion of invisible walls.
I don't have the exact figures, but I think Skyrim cost around five or six mil to make, and just about as many years. This is why open-world RPGs of a Bethesda-ish level of quality are rare. It's a lot easier to build a straight-up linear RPG for a fraction of the time, and perhaps a fraction of that cost, as well.
It's hard to do well. Although that isn't a defence for Bethesda's shitty QA - the amount of bugs in any of their games is pushing the boundaries of acceptability. Yes, an Elder Scrolls type world is inevitably going to be complex, but an excessive number of bugs indicates that Bethesda just aren't good at QA and haven't designed this in a sensible way.
I'd say the main issue is content creation. You have to create an entire world that will continue to run in the background even if the player does nothing. And you've also got to make it sufficiently interesting for the player to keep going - that means different styles of quests, new and interesting landscape, and a lot of work. Even if you manage all of these it might suck as a game for some reason that's really hard to pin down.
I'd say the main issue is content creation. You have to create an entire world that will continue to run in the background even if the player does nothing. And you've also got to make it sufficiently interesting for the player to keep going - that means different styles of quests, new and interesting landscape, and a lot of work. Even if you manage all of these it might suck as a game for some reason that's really hard to pin down.
Everything other than Fallout would just be called a Elder Scrolls ripoff and the thousands of morons will refuse to buy it afterwards by just assuming it's bad because of it.
Perhaps someone who have only experienced Oblivion and Skyrim (especially Skyrim and its level-dependent chest loot) might think loot in TES is boring. To those whom that applies, I urge you to play Morrowind. Talk about a game with an abundance of fantastic unique loot that far surpasses anything you can make yourself (and enchanting in Morrowind allows for far, far more freedom than either Oblivion or Skyrim). Necromancer's amulet giving +25 to intelligence and no negative effects. Yes plz. Spear of the Hunter with a 10 second paralyze on hit and hundreds of charges!? Yes plz. Ebony Mail with a 75% resist fire enchantment and a 50pt shield enchantment (and a piddly 20% magicka resist)!!??!! My dunmer is now 150% fire resistant (180 with denstagmers ring, yet another unique enchanted item that kicks ass). And the best part is that all of these are totally unique; none of this "axe of whiterun" being some orcish war axe with some bullshit 10pt magic absorb enchantment or whatever. They have unique models that look totally awesome in many cases. Say what you will about the other games in the series; Morrowind is wicked loot. I mean, there's even an item called the "Fat Lute"endtherapture said:
What is this mod called. If you can could you link me to it. I have never gotten past the second quest. The most I have gotten out of morrowind is going around randomly killing mud crabs. So far I prefer Oblivion. Maybe I need to try again. Might as well try to get something out of those 20 bucks I spent.Fappy said:If you're playing on the PC and don't already have it get the Overhaul mod ASAP! There are some graphic aspects of the mod that surpass even Skyrim in quality.RustlessPotato said:Indeed ! My first entry to the Elder Scrolls was Oblivion when it came out and then I was blown away. 6 months later my brother came back with a deluxe edition of Morrowind, so the main game and the 3 expantions. Never played them...Fappy said:
Untill 1 month ago... It took my a while to get used to the animations and the combat system, but WOW, that game is amazing and I see where every Morrowind veteran is coming from, like the quest arrow thing. It's true that it takes away a sense of adventure. Haven't played it since 2 weeks because I have exams ... But after that it's the summer vacation !
O.T Basically what everyone has said, it's rather difficult to make.
OT: what everyone else said. Expensive long time developers wouldn't meddle
Here's a link a bunch of mirrors on Overhaul's main site: http://morrowindoverhaul.rpgitalia.net/news/mirrors-mirrors-mirrorsThe_Lost_King said:What is this mod called. If you can could you link me to it. I have never gotten past the second quest. The most I have gotten out of morrowind is going around randomly killing mud crabs. So far I prefer Oblivion. Maybe I need to try again. Might as well try to get something out of those 20 bucks I spent.Fappy said:If you're playing on the PC and don't already have it get the Overhaul mod ASAP! There are some graphic aspects of the mod that surpass even Skyrim in quality.RustlessPotato said:Indeed ! My first entry to the Elder Scrolls was Oblivion when it came out and then I was blown away. 6 months later my brother came back with a deluxe edition of Morrowind, so the main game and the 3 expantions. Never played them...Fappy said:
Untill 1 month ago... It took my a while to get used to the animations and the combat system, but WOW, that game is amazing and I see where every Morrowind veteran is coming from, like the quest arrow thing. It's true that it takes away a sense of adventure. Haven't played it since 2 weeks because I have exams ... But after that it's the summer vacation !
O.T Basically what everyone has said, it's rather difficult to make.
OT: what everyone else said. Expensive long time developers wouldn't meddle
Have fun!
That was Mojang that Bethesda sued although they did settle on a compromise. It was actually a pretty complex issue that was far more the fault of the stupdity of copyright law rather than either of the companies. Basically, the law states that if Bethesda doesn't sue someone over something that could in any way be seen as an infringement on their copyright of "The Elder Scrolls" as a title, then in the future, if someone decided to make "The Felder Scrolls", they literally wouldn't be able to do anything about it. It's a stupid law, not Bethesda's fault. If anything, Notch made it worse when he claimed his indy title was being oppressed by a big corporation, when that was far from what was actually happening. Fortunately, I believe he figured out what was actually going on, and like I said, it all worked out in the end.Ragetrain said:
Hah. I laughed.Anthraxus said:
OT: This thread amuses me.
Are you asking why there aren't specifically more Open-World Sandbox RPGs?
Well, look at how it turned out for 38 Studios, who (admittedly not solely because of KoA) went into massive debt and ended up imploding on themselves, ending up leaving the government with the possession of their IP.
Let me see what I can think up here:
Two Worlds (Crappy game, but in a somewhat endearing way.)
Two Worlds II (Probably the only thing actually related to the first one is that they're made by the same developer. Much better game, but still holds the stigma of the first one.)
Dragon's Dogma (Okay, it's Capcom. But the game-play is pretty satisfying and the world is pretty big.)
Demon's Souls/Dark Souls (Not nearly as "open", but the games give you pretty much complete freedom of exploration and you advance it at your own pace.)
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (Cartoony, colorful aesthetic, massive world, interesting and good combat, lackluster story/characters.)
The Witcher 2 (Again, not really "open-world", but puts emphasis onto advancing the story at your own pace with a large world that encourages exploration.)
Risen/Risen 2 (Better than Two Worlds, at the very least. Very reminiscent of the Gothic games.)
Which is a nice segue into: The Gothic series. (All pretty buggy and unstable, 1-3 are pretty obtuse and difficult to get into, 4 is usually bashed for being "dumbed down".)
Sacred 2 (More Diablo-style with its overhead view, and the world is a bit bland overall, but it's massive and open.)
Admittedly none of those are based in first-person, but I never really liked that aspect of Elder Scrolls games and, in fact, the only reason I could really get into Skyrim was because of the vastly improved Third-Person animations.
There are games like TES games though.
GTA games, are in fact very similar to TES games, the only difference being the character building element/ levelling system (and the obvious). and then you have RTS' like the Fallouts, Diablo, Bauldurs Gate and Icewind Dale etc.
There are many games really that are like TES ones, just maybe because the TES series is one of the most popular of them, I don't know really.
GTA games, are in fact very similar to TES games, the only difference being the character building element/ levelling system (and the obvious). and then you have RTS' like the Fallouts, Diablo, Bauldurs Gate and Icewind Dale etc.
There are many games really that are like TES ones, just maybe because the TES series is one of the most popular of them, I don't know really.
Because it's expensive to make, and a sort of seen as a Niche gaming audience. Most publishers want to play it safe and churn out endless Call of Duty clones to maximize their profits with minimal costs/effort.
Out of Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, Dragons Dogma and Dark Souls, Skyrim obviously shines through as being the best. It HAS IT ALL. Yes most will disagree but seriously find me a feature it doesn't have or doesn't do better than those others.
I put in at least 350 hours into Skyrim and once each DLC comes out I'm sure I can tack another 100 to that. But since I gotta wait til June 26th for it I bought Dark Souls thinking it might be a fun challenge to keep me busy before and after the DLC.
WRONG the game sucks, and again if you disagree I frankly don't care. It might be good on its own but compared to TES then no way. It's got no followers, no map, no quests, no karmic choice, no impact to the game world due to you actions, yes you can change your appearance but the armor is goofy and your character is a shriveled black corpse most of the game anyways. You cant pick which weapons you want, you gotta use the shit given to you because if you dont you will die, and in Skyrim I never die. You cant even pause the damn thing if you want to go take a piss.
Anyways, the only thing driving me to continue is the fact I have this shitty 4/41 on my achievement record, so I just want to beat the story and sell it.
I've tried the demo for Amalur and yes its a nice little knock off, pretty much Oblivion meets Fable, but I've heard it wasn't that great. I haven't even touched dogma, i just heard it was cluttered, no fast travel and annoying ass pawns so i just wrote it off.
All I can do now is wait for Skyrim DLC's and Fallout 4.
I put in at least 350 hours into Skyrim and once each DLC comes out I'm sure I can tack another 100 to that. But since I gotta wait til June 26th for it I bought Dark Souls thinking it might be a fun challenge to keep me busy before and after the DLC.
WRONG the game sucks, and again if you disagree I frankly don't care. It might be good on its own but compared to TES then no way. It's got no followers, no map, no quests, no karmic choice, no impact to the game world due to you actions, yes you can change your appearance but the armor is goofy and your character is a shriveled black corpse most of the game anyways. You cant pick which weapons you want, you gotta use the shit given to you because if you dont you will die, and in Skyrim I never die. You cant even pause the damn thing if you want to go take a piss.
Anyways, the only thing driving me to continue is the fact I have this shitty 4/41 on my achievement record, so I just want to beat the story and sell it.
I've tried the demo for Amalur and yes its a nice little knock off, pretty much Oblivion meets Fable, but I've heard it wasn't that great. I haven't even touched dogma, i just heard it was cluttered, no fast travel and annoying ass pawns so i just wrote it off.
All I can do now is wait for Skyrim DLC's and Fallout 4.
Haha nope just a big fan, I loved Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas and Skyrim, there games are everything I could ask for, and unfortunately everything else now falls short. Literally 5 minutes ago I was getting my ass kicked in Dark Souls again so I just dashboarded it and I'm going to play something else, might have to trade it in this weekend.Anthraxus said:
a TES tyle game about Game of Thrones.endtherapture said:
So instead o exploring or combat you stand around talking about politics and committing acts of incest.
Yeah, that sounds... totally... interesting.
It's halfway through 2012 people, it's time to accept the fact that Game of Thrones is the biggest pile of the most BORING shit ever made.
Why wouldn't you be able to have combat or explore? You do know there's a fair bit of combat in the books? And LOOADS of peple would love to roam the Seven Kingdoms and explore areas from the book - it's not like they're going to make you play as Tyrion Lannister.Syzygy23 said:
Game of Thrones is great for the politics and the talking - it treats you more intelligently than a typical "save the world" fantasy.