Why can't fantasy RPGs be more original?
- Thread starter Proto Cloud
- Start date
Recommended Videos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcanum:_Of_Steamworks_and_Magick_Obscura
Yep, Saevus is right. Troika is the group that did Vampire the masquerade: bloodlines and Temple of Elemental Evil (a high fantasy d&D RPG)
Unfortunately their games didn't sell well, and they're closed for business now.
Yep, Saevus is right. Troika is the group that did Vampire the masquerade: bloodlines and Temple of Elemental Evil (a high fantasy d&D RPG)
Unfortunately their games didn't sell well, and they're closed for business now.
I think the first thing that needs to happen in order to make an "original" fantasy rpg is to envision the structure of the world you want the game to take place in. If we were to look at the typical status of wizards in fantasy rpgs I think we could re-imagine a world that exists as a Technocratic society with Wizards and other technically skilled individuals at the top of the heap so to speak. What we in the real world would readily recognize as technology would exist in this world as well. In short it would be much like the real world save for the technocratic social structure. The second thing we would need to do is get out of the stranglehold Dark Age motifs have on the whole genre. We might end up with something not unlike Too Human actually. I will say that I love that idea regarding using Mayan motifs.
I think the reason why fantasy RPGs are not more original is a combination of the following:
- 1. Because many developers are afraid RPG players won't buy their game if it doesn't have standardized features of fantasy RPGs (e.g. Dwarves, Elves, ect).
2. It's just easier to rip off the pre-existing model of fantasy RPGs than try to come up with your own original background (that doesn't suck).
3. Because it's the fantasy RPG genre. To an extent, wanting more fantasy RPG is just propagating the problem.
That's another reason why Planescape: Torment stands out. You can be good or evil if you want to, it doesn't matter in the end. The story is about you, not about the Designated Antagonist/Big Bad attempting to destroy/control the world.
Edit: Hell, your very existence is a blight upon the Planes...
The best thing about Torment(*) is how, if you know the D&D background of the game, you know that the universe is crawling with people who have to save the world or join the fight between stupid-good and stupid-evil. They just don't matter to you at all. They don't really matter to anyone else, either. You'll never meet any prime, any "hero," any "adventurer" whose own little world counts for anything in the grand scheme of things. But you, your screwed-up lives have touched many, both far and near.
(Like I've said elsewhere: too bad you have to play the whole game with mechanics derived from D&D... especially AD&D 2nd Edition.)
-- Alex
* -- I say that in the spirit of hyperbole. There is no one "best" thing about Torment. Just a lot of awesome things and some warts to go along with them.
(Like I've said elsewhere: too bad you have to play the whole game with mechanics derived from D&D... especially AD&D 2nd Edition.)
-- Alex
* -- I say that in the spirit of hyperbole. There is no one "best" thing about Torment. Just a lot of awesome things and some warts to go along with them.
I have played every Final Fantasy game from 7 to 10 but never came close to finishing any of them. I mean the story was engaging, CGI cutscenes were fun in their akira-esque massive destruction, and the look, feel, characters and enemies were all top notch. Enough can't be said for the soundtrack.
But that turn based combat killed it for me, oh I gave it my best effort but I couldn't deny that I dreaded every time I entered a random fight sequence. I just hated being at the mercy of such rigid fighting rules, I couldn't help but wish my team would simply attack all at once or surround the enemy or do something other than stand in a neat line in front of them. I generally call this Soliton Radar syndrome. This comes from metal gear solid (and much more so MGS2) as the radar was so much better than actually looking at the environment that you played mostly by the boring 8-bit quality radar screen as it was too good. I'm getting that problem in these turn based combat games as you spend most of the time looking through spell and attack lists and need no judgement of the environment. So this is basically a simple and boring game feature that is so vital you end up using that mostly at the detriment of far more enjoyable elements.
But that turn based combat killed it for me, oh I gave it my best effort but I couldn't deny that I dreaded every time I entered a random fight sequence. I just hated being at the mercy of such rigid fighting rules, I couldn't help but wish my team would simply attack all at once or surround the enemy or do something other than stand in a neat line in front of them. I generally call this Soliton Radar syndrome. This comes from metal gear solid (and much more so MGS2) as the radar was so much better than actually looking at the environment that you played mostly by the boring 8-bit quality radar screen as it was too good. I'm getting that problem in these turn based combat games as you spend most of the time looking through spell and attack lists and need no judgement of the environment. So this is basically a simple and boring game feature that is so vital you end up using that mostly at the detriment of far more enjoyable elements.
I agree on rethinking the non-human races, or even ditching them altogether except as humans transformed or mutated by some means.
I also think the storytelling capabilities of the RPG and the fantasy setting need a real test: to tell as many kinds of stories as one can think of, from comedy skits to crime thrillers to haunted-house slashers.
Fnially, a neat little jab at traditional magic would be to have no spells at all, but only items named after classics like Magic Missile (fireworks on a dart), Fireball (Molotov cocktail), Lightning Bolt (lightning rod in the form of a spear, so the actual conditions for lightning must be satisfied AND an unskilled user could get himself zapped), etc. If pressed for some form of spellcasting, I could go with a system based on science (biology, chemistry, physics) instead of the usual elements (fire, water, etc.), where "spells" are computer programs that can read and edit the biological, chemical, and physical parameters of an object.
I also think the storytelling capabilities of the RPG and the fantasy setting need a real test: to tell as many kinds of stories as one can think of, from comedy skits to crime thrillers to haunted-house slashers.
Fnially, a neat little jab at traditional magic would be to have no spells at all, but only items named after classics like Magic Missile (fireworks on a dart), Fireball (Molotov cocktail), Lightning Bolt (lightning rod in the form of a spear, so the actual conditions for lightning must be satisfied AND an unskilled user could get himself zapped), etc. If pressed for some form of spellcasting, I could go with a system based on science (biology, chemistry, physics) instead of the usual elements (fire, water, etc.), where "spells" are computer programs that can read and edit the biological, chemical, and physical parameters of an object.
Humm...speaking of races...I don't think it's a problem that there are elves, orcs, dwarves and humans but rather, they're all -too- humanoid (no, not a pun). Maybe a fanstasy based RPG where you play as something entirely non-human with no features you can identify as human. I think the closest think I can remember, would be the Aliens versus Predator games, although, even then the Xenomorphs are a little too humanoid too in their later stages, but I thought the Facehugger and Chestburster stages where just awesome, and certainly could have been expanded.
But then, what does a non-humanoid creature want for in a fantasy world? Beyond food and survival? I mean...let's say you play as...a dire wolf or a basilisk or something in a D'n'D based setting, would then the entire game be based around waiting around for a passing adventurer to attack? Or maybe, you could have a plot whereby your character has been polymorphed into this form, as such are desperately trying to find some way to cure yourself but at the same time avoiding attention or trying to find food etc.
But then, what does a non-humanoid creature want for in a fantasy world? Beyond food and survival? I mean...let's say you play as...a dire wolf or a basilisk or something in a D'n'D based setting, would then the entire game be based around waiting around for a passing adventurer to attack? Or maybe, you could have a plot whereby your character has been polymorphed into this form, as such are desperately trying to find some way to cure yourself but at the same time avoiding attention or trying to find food etc.
This is one of the big differences between western and japanese RPGs. I agree, the majority of western RPGs have gone this route, but the japanese ones go the opposite way. Within each series you'll see lots of the same, but in general, races/enemies/worlds are all completely different from each other.
The problem with deviating far from the whole orcs'n elves deal, is that fantasy relies heavily on anthropomorphism of human attributes into separate fantastic creatures and cultures.
If you deviate too far from something resembling a humanoid or having any ties with anything commonly found in the real world, you end up with something that people will have trouble identifying with and it'll be detrimental to the game.
If you deviate too far from something resembling a humanoid or having any ties with anything commonly found in the real world, you end up with something that people will have trouble identifying with and it'll be detrimental to the game.
fantasy rpgs arent different because we dont WANT them to be differetn. think about it. the reason that deveopers dont try anything new is because they are scared. they make these games because they know we will buy an alright game from a good franchise than a new game from a franchise/developer they've never heard of
If I'm not mistaken no one mentioned Morrowind yet? Sure, in the Elder Scrolls universe there are enough standard fantasy creatures, just think of Oblivion. Better yet, think of it as the bastard child of the series that only got the recessive classical unicorn and fairy genes.
But what about Aedra, Daedra, Dreugh, Netch, Kwama and so on. There are a lot more unique creatures we haven't even seen yet, but that were described in books. Oh the glorious book and stories, all the complex lore and history just made up for the Elder Scrolls series. If that's not one of a kind I don't know what else.
Yahtzee incidentally mentioned something along those lines in his latest video when saying that there are so many sequels this year. French chefs riding giant stick insects while wielding a gun that shoots velociraptors... that's creativity (and to some part insanity).
But what about Aedra, Daedra, Dreugh, Netch, Kwama and so on. There are a lot more unique creatures we haven't even seen yet, but that were described in books. Oh the glorious book and stories, all the complex lore and history just made up for the Elder Scrolls series. If that's not one of a kind I don't know what else.
I definitely do want my RPGs to be different, but I agree that developers are too scared these days to try out anything too new. After all they're putting million of dollars in their projects and low sales aren't an option.CombineSoldier said:
Yahtzee incidentally mentioned something along those lines in his latest video when saying that there are so many sequels this year. French chefs riding giant stick insects while wielding a gun that shoots velociraptors... that's creativity (and to some part insanity).
True...but it doesn't necessarily have to be a detriment, although, having said that I can't really see how say a game based on the Cthulhu mythos where you actually control one of the Great Elder Things would be easy to do. Being that they're for the most part faceless incalculable, and generally un-comprhensible to mortal mind.Hawgh said:
However, let's say an RPG based on the point of veiw of a rat would be more doeable, as to whether or not such a game would be good, is entirely up to the game maker, and not I think automatically bad due to any non-humanoid status on the protaganists part.
Also, on the 'anthropomorphism of human attributes' placement, that would have to be thought of too, or else you just end up with a rat that talks like a human from the rat's pov of course, and while that does allow the player to sympathise more with the rat as a character, it would be maybe more the dialogue the player is responding to rather than the fact the character is a rat.
Maybe...let's say for this hypothectical rat RPG, they came up with a 'language' for the rats, a systems of wheeks and squeeks with a little notation in brackets to show the player what the rat is saying. Like:
Skittish Rat:Squeekkk wheeksk tweesks! (Careful! I hear there are adventurers in the area! They're stealing all our precious coin and copper necklaces!)
Player Rat: Wheecks squeks wheeks? (Adventurers huh, is there anything I can do to help?)
Skittish Rat: Weeeeck! Sqeeecks skss! (Damn right there is! I know, bring me 15 copper necklaces, I think they like to keep them in chests scattered about their homes!)
Player Rat: Wheecksk queesks? (Chests? Where?)
Skittish Rat: Qeeusk, squeeks wheesks. Wheecks skeesk qeekses! (Just up that pipe, there's a large room filled with boxes and such, look around there. I'll reward you well I promise!)
Player Rat: Squekssk squeskek whecks! (I'll be right back!)
Just a thought though...