Why Captain America must be evil, and black, and gay, and muslim and...etc. etc. etc.
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Welcome to the point I was making. Pull up a chair, have a seat, enjoy the appetizers and drink a drink.Samtemdo8 said:
It's sad that I knew this is EXACTLY what you'd say. That you'd crawl up my ass without reading the original post and figuring out what's going on.
So explain to me this point that has clearly flew over my confused head please.AccursedTheory said:
Honestly, this is the excuse I hate the most to defend a change in a series status quo. Different does not equal newer and better, and the current Cap kerfuffle illustrates why. Either this is a typical double agent story which makes this "new direction" something that been done to death especially in superhero fiction, or they're knocking off one of the least well received Avengers stories http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/The_Crossing and hoping for a different result.
Series changes tend to go wrong more often than not. On the one side you get the ones that don't really change things. How much of the Bond formula would be altered with a Jane Bond? The Ultimate Marvel line did a lot to update origins, but the story structure of things like spider-Man and the X-Men were shaken up, and often the stories weren't that good outside of "look at what they did to so and so". Included in that are the changes that aren't that new in the grand scheme. New Thor, New Spider-Man, we had those in the 90s. New Cap...80s, and '00s. It amuses me how the status quo people can't accept is a married Spider-Man.
On the other side, while some changes work and seem like a good idea, the "shake things up" mentality gave us electric Superman, a supernatural Punisher (don't get me started on frakencastle), Teenage Iron Man, a powerless Wonder Woman, and too many gritifications of happier heroes from Aquaman to Daredevil. A lot of ideas don't work, but are praised by the brains behind them wanting to hide behind "fear of change" rather than admit it might not have been a good idea. Or more likely, that while the idea itself isn't terrible, the audience isn't as bored with the comic yet as the writer, and the happy people get flustered at losing to the voices going "I'M BOOOORRRRREDDDD".
I'm of the mind that if you find a comic boring, it doesn't need to change, you need to read something new. The monthly catalogs have like over 500 pages of comics to try out if you need something new, and most would be happy for new sales. If you're a struggling book trying to find readers, I'd say remember that Daredevil isn't remembered for the period he claimed to not be Matt Murdok and got a new costume, but well written stories by Frank Miller and Kevin Smith among others. It might do well to stop and ask if you want to land in the group of writers that gave us "one more day", "the other", or "Heroes Reborn".
Series changes tend to go wrong more often than not. On the one side you get the ones that don't really change things. How much of the Bond formula would be altered with a Jane Bond? The Ultimate Marvel line did a lot to update origins, but the story structure of things like spider-Man and the X-Men were shaken up, and often the stories weren't that good outside of "look at what they did to so and so". Included in that are the changes that aren't that new in the grand scheme. New Thor, New Spider-Man, we had those in the 90s. New Cap...80s, and '00s. It amuses me how the status quo people can't accept is a married Spider-Man.
On the other side, while some changes work and seem like a good idea, the "shake things up" mentality gave us electric Superman, a supernatural Punisher (don't get me started on frakencastle), Teenage Iron Man, a powerless Wonder Woman, and too many gritifications of happier heroes from Aquaman to Daredevil. A lot of ideas don't work, but are praised by the brains behind them wanting to hide behind "fear of change" rather than admit it might not have been a good idea. Or more likely, that while the idea itself isn't terrible, the audience isn't as bored with the comic yet as the writer, and the happy people get flustered at losing to the voices going "I'M BOOOORRRRREDDDD".
I'm of the mind that if you find a comic boring, it doesn't need to change, you need to read something new. The monthly catalogs have like over 500 pages of comics to try out if you need something new, and most would be happy for new sales. If you're a struggling book trying to find readers, I'd say remember that Daredevil isn't remembered for the period he claimed to not be Matt Murdok and got a new costume, but well written stories by Frank Miller and Kevin Smith among others. It might do well to stop and ask if you want to land in the group of writers that gave us "one more day", "the other", or "Heroes Reborn".
I don't like the idea of changing a long established character for the sake of political correctness. Or to appease a minority group who may not be that interested in the story. But are pushing for changes in the arts and media for the sake of an agenda and not entertainment value.
If a director or artist isn't gay per se. Can you honestly expect them to fantasize a romance they wouldn't want for themselves. And are you really for promoting artistic vision, or a personal political based agenda. And if there's really a market for Asian, black, gay characters for example. Then you wouldn't need to change existing characters, cause stories of new ones who have "under-represented traits" will be trending and selling very well. And economics will dictate more stories and heroes will be made to appeal to those markets. But if such under-represented stories are not selling, then the market isn't there. And changing existing characters at that point won't be the big seller anyone was looking for.
If a director or artist isn't gay per se. Can you honestly expect them to fantasize a romance they wouldn't want for themselves. And are you really for promoting artistic vision, or a personal political based agenda. And if there's really a market for Asian, black, gay characters for example. Then you wouldn't need to change existing characters, cause stories of new ones who have "under-represented traits" will be trending and selling very well. And economics will dictate more stories and heroes will be made to appeal to those markets. But if such under-represented stories are not selling, then the market isn't there. And changing existing characters at that point won't be the big seller anyone was looking for.
Can we agree that people in the past were pretty messed up in terms of racism, sexism, representing minorities and women in media, etc?-Jak- said:
Can we also agree that the old classic heroes have a lot more importance and staying power than new heroes? To whit people care way more about Hulk, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, etc more than they do Hulkling, Iron Lad, Patrior, Wiccan, etc. It isn't merely a case of "Here's a new latino superhero" because no new superhero can have the iconic value of the characters which come from the golden and silver age of comics.
Both of these are fairly non contentious.
Now just because when people were originally making these now famous characters they were pretty backwards, does this mean women and minorities should be relegated to secondary status in Marvel and DC forever? Seems pretty a pretty unfair deal on pretty bad grounds.
Also you seem not to understand the concept of empathy, the basic human ability for people to understand how others feel. Slightly worrying. Someone doesn't need to be a woman to include a female in a narrative they are writing. Writers in fact include people of other genders, races and sexual orientations in their work all the time.
Perhaps we should get rid of superheroes form comics. After all by your logic, how can a normal non-superpowered writer ever possibly understand what it's like to be someone with superpowers!
It could be argued though that the old characters are popular in large part because they keep pumping out stuff about them, not just because they are old. You have new characters outside of comics that have gained large followings in recent years, after all. New Latino Superhero isn't going to keep getting movies and reboots thrown at us like Spiderman or Batman.Overhead said:
I'd also point out that the X-Men movies would seem to have less minorities than the comics did. The excuse that the people were backwards doesn't really work when the comic was about minorities (by way of an allegory that's no longer needed, in that you can put real minorities in nowdays, like the comics have and movies avoid) to begin with.
But they've done that before, with other heroes, and the fans lose their shit every time.Captain Marvelous said:
"How dare they kill him off! There is only ONE *insert hero*!!! You don't kill him off and then just put someone in his place! It's an insult to his legacy and the character!!" blah blah blah.
Bottome line, I'd say probably 85% of comic book fans don't want anything new. They want the same old shit over and over, because they hate change, and piss and moan like crazy if you even DARE to consider changing a single aspect of the character they've been buying comics of for years. This is exactly how they reacted to the two examples you gave above. Superior and Ultimate Spiderman. It doesn't matter that these things never last forever, and all things in the comic world invariably return to neutral state.
They don't care. You don't change their characters, at all. You just keep telling the same stories over and over and over, because that's honestly all they want.
Today however I did get a nice surprise. I was at the mall wearing a Hydra shirt and I was asked by two different people what I thought about the new Captain America plot twist. And when I told them I had read the comic and I was waiting to see what they would do with it before I judged, both of them said they were going to do the same. One even cited superior Spider-Man as a reason to have some faith that the story might be interesting
Honestly I don't think it's 85% of comic fans don't want change. I think it's 85% of the people who flip out on the internet about the change don't actually read the comics.
Honestly I don't think it's 85% of comic fans don't want change. I think it's 85% of the people who flip out on the internet about the change don't actually read the comics.
Yeah, I know. I know. I've had the displeasure of reading a lot of the comments complaining about Mile Morales, Jane Foster, Sam Wilson, Alan Scott, and even Val-Zod. I probably shouldn't place all of the blame on Marvel or DC for the stale state of their comics. The consumers vote with their wallets, after all.Happyninja42 said:
You would have to individually prove that specific comic makers from the golden, silver, etc age were indeed racist sexist, etc. And those views influenced character and story development.Overhead said:
Just looking at a general population, and labeling everyone as racists. Isn't fair to those who for helping minority groups, got beaten, verbally abused, lose their jobs/homes, and killed too. Or secretly helped oppressed groups behind close doors.
Humans are just as capable now as in the past to create new characters and their stories. Creativity in the media and arts did not end with the silver era of comics. The video game industry is a testament to that, as that industry didn't start to gain traction till the 80's. And we've received thousands of quality games and numerous franchises since then. From development teams with very mixed backgrounds. Asides from the amazing movies that have been made the last few decades.
And perhaps what Thaluikhain said about comic book market share. May be the reason why new characters aren't growing as big as older ones. You can say women and minorities are being underrepresented; and that the population from the 30-60's were racist and sexist. But the present day comic book audience that includes those "under-represented" demographics, is the one that aren't buying these new comic book characters.
Do you know the highest paying male model in the world Sean O'Pry, made $1.5 million in a year. While the female model Gisele took in $47 million. Can you even comprehend that massive wealth difference. Or maybe your thinking of just how much less other male models are making.
Comic books are a male dominant industry. It should be no surprise that the majority of characters are male, as one thing artists can relate to and express well, is their own gender and personal vulnerabilities. And I honestly don't see modern day comic book fans being crazy over Wonder Woman taking complete lead over Superman and Batman. Just to appease non-comic book fans with a political agenda on their mind. Who can care less about the quality of their comics and the movies based on them.
You do not know me. You do not know that last week I was ministering with my sister to a friend of ours; who opened up to us that she was beaten badly by her brother when she was younger. Or the young kids/teens at the gym I go to, that want to start fights with each other. And when I went to break up the fight between two little kids, their own cousin was encouraging them to keep swinging hands and tossing each other on the gym floor. So keep the generalizations to yourself, as that was only a sample of the community work I may do on a weekly basis. And does not include my reserve officer duties where I stand out in the extreme cold or heat to help people in their time of need.
Now if someone feels that strong about their personal views about under-representation. They can take the time to make their own comic. Their own story, supporting cast with a gay black Asian hispanic, and put as many minorities and women as they want in the background. Or fund and invest in artists who have that vision. And we just had a movie made about a phone game from an independent developer; where you shoot birds with a slingshot mechanic at stuff. That got $300 million just for marketing. So don't tell me this can't be done.
I have to agree your theory hold significance. While the comic book market is large, there are only so many comic issues one can buy and have time to read. Hard to sell new characters when older comics are still eating up significant chunks of market share. And it can't be generalized the comic book buyers are racist sexist pigs. As that wouldn't be fair to label everyday people and kids, who can care less about what color skin is the hero or villain they're reading about.Thaluikhain said:
You don't have to say everyone in the comic industry was racism or sexism, just that there was a significant trend of it.-Jak- said:
Otherwise, by that logic you can deny the racism or sexism (as general trends) anywhere, because you can't prove every individual is racist in an almost any group.
Now, in any case, I doubt you'd get many cross burning hood waving racists in the comic industry, but a large proportion might just prefer to write and read stories about straight white males and to avoid all else.
Welcome to comics, were reveals and shocking twists means nothing because they can be retconned easily with no consequences whatsoever if people decide the original sold better...
Seriously, in a few months it will be revealed he was mind controlled, an impostor or a clone (or all of the above). In a universe with literally hundreds of entities capable of supporting any of those explanations, and a franchise with the character that generates several thousands times more money than the comic book counterpart, your energy worrying about the story twists and character arcs is better invested in things with more chances of being real, like WrestleMania, reality TV shows or Venezuelan soap operas.
Steve Rogers evolving to join Hydra? Potentially interesting. Particularly with the Red Skull turning into a Donald Trump caricature; you put in enough nuance to the situation, showing all sides to the issue, including the problems (Cologne!), and seeing Steve Rogers decide that perhaps helping Hydra might be for the best. If you toss in things like how much the world is changing, how much grey there is now in the world, etc., and show that Captain America isn't quite as necessary as he used to be, it could make for a very interesting story in the hands of a skilled AND considerate writer. There would still be a LOT of backlash, there would be charges that the writers were closet GOP/Trump supporters trying to make Trump/GOP more sympathetic, etc., there would be the cry that "Steve Rogers would NEVER do that!" when Steve Rogers said "I agree." to Red Skull saying "Many of these refugees aren't refugees at all - they are merely economic migrants!" or "These crimes in Cologne were perpetrated by migrants - with perhaps a few native Muslims participating as well." Even I might toss out a few "Oh, you." and "Really? Uh huh." gif's out on Twitter and message boards in disdain.
But to me, that would make more sense and be a more honourable way to treat this with Steve Rogers/Captain America than to say he has ALWAYS been part of Hydra. Instead of saying "The last 70+ years has been a LIE!" and making a mockery of the character, it could be a natural progression of an "old white man". IRL, you had millions of straight white males in the USA in the 1940's who weren't outright racist or sexist, and who would have risen up to support minority and expanded womens rights if someone had come along and actually pointed it out to them. They fought side by side with African American's in WWII and they depended on women making many of the things they used (including some weapons and vehicles) in their time in the military. But they simply didn't rise up to support people who were both racist and sexist because there were more straight white men who were sexist and racist, and those people had more incentive to keep things static.
So you have a Steve Rogers coming out from that era, being one of the people who WOULD support expanded women's rights and minority rights, but being a military man to the core (at the time) and less of a "Symbol of America" that he would become, he doesn't become that rallying point. He follows the orders of his superiors and doesn't get involved in politics. He supports MLK later on (though does harbour some beliefs that Malcolm X might be a better person for the civil rights movement to follow) and the expansion of women's rights. Later he supports the gay rights movement (but you can go back and show that he's uneasy with it because while 1940's white males might have had lots of people who would support women and racial minorities, homosexuals were still very much a taboo). But as things progress, the 1940's Straight White Male in Steve Rogers starts to yearn for a simpler time, when he didn't have to worry that saying "Coloured" was an insult (even though many refer to themselves as "People of Colour" - what exactly is the difference between "Coloured" and "People of Colour" anyway?), where he could compliment a woman on her looks and not be called a misogynist (I don't hate women - I love women. All women. What's wrong with saying that she looks beautiful in that uniform, anyway?), where you just didn't see two women kissing in public (women? They can't be more than 18, if that! They're still little girls!).
Being Steve Rogers, he isn't afraid to ask why. And he gets answers - but the answers don't satisfy the 1940's Straight White (Christian) Male in Steve Rogers that is making itself more known, in many of the same ways that you see some older people reverting back to a simpler time for them. (They work perfectly well for people who were born and raised during the past 30 years. They're the arguments that are used today and many people accept as valid. These aren't meant to be caricatures and straw-men which shouldn't convince Steve Rogers - the point of this is that he's started to reject "modern" thinking and reverting to a "simpler" time in his head.) And eventually this leads to Steve Rogers, incognito, going to a Red Skull rally and finding himself nodding at what the Skull is saying. And the more he see's and hears of what's going on, the more the Skull's appeal to that 1940's SW(C)M mindset starts to work. Eventually, under the guise of infiltrating to find out what nefarious evil the Skull is up to, Steve adopts a pseudonym and joins a minor Hydra group. Then from the inside, he finds that it's mostly SW(C)M's who have given into the racist, sexist and homophobic views of the 1940's SW(C)M, and it appeals to that part of Steve Rogers. You toss in a few situations - like another Cologne - where Steve Rogers witnesses police doing nothing (in his view, anyway) and when he DOES do something - like stopping a group of apparent migrants from molesting a group of women - the headlines the next day are "IS CAPTAIN AMERICA AN ISLAMOPHOBE?".
And he snaps.
Hail Hydra.
Now, because we don't want to make it too sympathetic to the Red Skull, we do find out that the Red Skull has been helping criminals from the Middle East, ISIS and Al-Queda, or their Marvel equivalents, come into Europe and cause trouble. He's got his fingers in a few police forces, not enough to be noticed but enough that he can influence them to not interfere in some "sensitive situations". And he's manipulated well meaning morons in the West to view any sort of criticism of Muslim migrant activities as vile, hateful speech and rhetoric, so people are scared of mentioning anything that is going on, which makes it easier for his criminal allies to operate. We find out that the "journalist" who wrote that sensational "Is Captain America an Islamophobe?" article was a Red Skull ally, and the article was written intentionally to hurt Steve Rogers. We find out that at least half of the talking heads on TV, Radio and Online who blather on incessantly about this situation are also Red Skull allies, and many are Conservatives using this article as a way to blast America for having gone too much toward the Loony Left. "When even Captain America - the Greatest of all Americans - can be slurred with "Islamophobe" for rescuing a woman from being molested - let's stop using that weasel word, she was going to be raped. Yes, RAPED - by an Islamist "Mi-Grant" - the PC way of saying "Terrorist" these days - when even Captain America isn't above reproach, what hope is there for the regular Joe American?"
And we find out that the end-game for this is for Red Skull to be outright elected to the highest office in the EU, along with hundreds of sympathizers in the other EU countries who aren't apparently connected, but once they are all elected they can turn the EU into a single nation with Red Skull at the helm. And what could be done about it - it was all democratically elected and sanctioned actions, so anyone attacking Red Skull over this would be attacking democracy itself?
And it works. Hail Red Skull, president of a united Europe. He has finally conquered Europe, only this time through Democracy instead of the Military.
At which point Steve Rogers would realize what it is he had done, what he had helped, and what he had supported. That the 1940's Steve Rogers mentality had allowed him to be so utterly manipulated by Red Skull that Rogers helped give Europe to the Skull... and there's nothing he can do about it. Steve Rogers is not equipped to help Europe. Captain America is not equipped to help Europe. We also find out that the Red Skull did NOT know that Steve Rogers had anonymously joined Hydra - that his attacks on Captain America via the Press were not to manipulate him into joining Hydra, but to delegitimize any actions he took against Red Skull in this. So when he finds out that Steve Rogers actually JOINED Hydra and HELPED him win? He's too dumbfounded to gloat. He actually thanks Steve Rogers in a sincere manner, no gloating, no speeches, no comic book villainy because even he's too surprised by this turn of events to know how to react.
And where does Steve Rogers go from here? He's just helped his greatest enemy achieve what that enemy has coveted for more than 70 years. He did it willingly and anonymously. He should have known it was wrong, but he was so blinded by something - and it's up to the reader just what that something was - that he just couldn't see that he was turning into a villain.
At the end, does he even see that he's a villain? Or has he succumbed to the idea that "Captain America is always right, so whatever Cap does is the right thing to do." that many Marvel hero's believe?
But to me, that would make more sense and be a more honourable way to treat this with Steve Rogers/Captain America than to say he has ALWAYS been part of Hydra. Instead of saying "The last 70+ years has been a LIE!" and making a mockery of the character, it could be a natural progression of an "old white man". IRL, you had millions of straight white males in the USA in the 1940's who weren't outright racist or sexist, and who would have risen up to support minority and expanded womens rights if someone had come along and actually pointed it out to them. They fought side by side with African American's in WWII and they depended on women making many of the things they used (including some weapons and vehicles) in their time in the military. But they simply didn't rise up to support people who were both racist and sexist because there were more straight white men who were sexist and racist, and those people had more incentive to keep things static.
So you have a Steve Rogers coming out from that era, being one of the people who WOULD support expanded women's rights and minority rights, but being a military man to the core (at the time) and less of a "Symbol of America" that he would become, he doesn't become that rallying point. He follows the orders of his superiors and doesn't get involved in politics. He supports MLK later on (though does harbour some beliefs that Malcolm X might be a better person for the civil rights movement to follow) and the expansion of women's rights. Later he supports the gay rights movement (but you can go back and show that he's uneasy with it because while 1940's white males might have had lots of people who would support women and racial minorities, homosexuals were still very much a taboo). But as things progress, the 1940's Straight White Male in Steve Rogers starts to yearn for a simpler time, when he didn't have to worry that saying "Coloured" was an insult (even though many refer to themselves as "People of Colour" - what exactly is the difference between "Coloured" and "People of Colour" anyway?), where he could compliment a woman on her looks and not be called a misogynist (I don't hate women - I love women. All women. What's wrong with saying that she looks beautiful in that uniform, anyway?), where you just didn't see two women kissing in public (women? They can't be more than 18, if that! They're still little girls!).
Being Steve Rogers, he isn't afraid to ask why. And he gets answers - but the answers don't satisfy the 1940's Straight White (Christian) Male in Steve Rogers that is making itself more known, in many of the same ways that you see some older people reverting back to a simpler time for them. (They work perfectly well for people who were born and raised during the past 30 years. They're the arguments that are used today and many people accept as valid. These aren't meant to be caricatures and straw-men which shouldn't convince Steve Rogers - the point of this is that he's started to reject "modern" thinking and reverting to a "simpler" time in his head.) And eventually this leads to Steve Rogers, incognito, going to a Red Skull rally and finding himself nodding at what the Skull is saying. And the more he see's and hears of what's going on, the more the Skull's appeal to that 1940's SW(C)M mindset starts to work. Eventually, under the guise of infiltrating to find out what nefarious evil the Skull is up to, Steve adopts a pseudonym and joins a minor Hydra group. Then from the inside, he finds that it's mostly SW(C)M's who have given into the racist, sexist and homophobic views of the 1940's SW(C)M, and it appeals to that part of Steve Rogers. You toss in a few situations - like another Cologne - where Steve Rogers witnesses police doing nothing (in his view, anyway) and when he DOES do something - like stopping a group of apparent migrants from molesting a group of women - the headlines the next day are "IS CAPTAIN AMERICA AN ISLAMOPHOBE?".
And he snaps.
Hail Hydra.
Now, because we don't want to make it too sympathetic to the Red Skull, we do find out that the Red Skull has been helping criminals from the Middle East, ISIS and Al-Queda, or their Marvel equivalents, come into Europe and cause trouble. He's got his fingers in a few police forces, not enough to be noticed but enough that he can influence them to not interfere in some "sensitive situations". And he's manipulated well meaning morons in the West to view any sort of criticism of Muslim migrant activities as vile, hateful speech and rhetoric, so people are scared of mentioning anything that is going on, which makes it easier for his criminal allies to operate. We find out that the "journalist" who wrote that sensational "Is Captain America an Islamophobe?" article was a Red Skull ally, and the article was written intentionally to hurt Steve Rogers. We find out that at least half of the talking heads on TV, Radio and Online who blather on incessantly about this situation are also Red Skull allies, and many are Conservatives using this article as a way to blast America for having gone too much toward the Loony Left. "When even Captain America - the Greatest of all Americans - can be slurred with "Islamophobe" for rescuing a woman from being molested - let's stop using that weasel word, she was going to be raped. Yes, RAPED - by an Islamist "Mi-Grant" - the PC way of saying "Terrorist" these days - when even Captain America isn't above reproach, what hope is there for the regular Joe American?"
And we find out that the end-game for this is for Red Skull to be outright elected to the highest office in the EU, along with hundreds of sympathizers in the other EU countries who aren't apparently connected, but once they are all elected they can turn the EU into a single nation with Red Skull at the helm. And what could be done about it - it was all democratically elected and sanctioned actions, so anyone attacking Red Skull over this would be attacking democracy itself?
And it works. Hail Red Skull, president of a united Europe. He has finally conquered Europe, only this time through Democracy instead of the Military.
At which point Steve Rogers would realize what it is he had done, what he had helped, and what he had supported. That the 1940's Steve Rogers mentality had allowed him to be so utterly manipulated by Red Skull that Rogers helped give Europe to the Skull... and there's nothing he can do about it. Steve Rogers is not equipped to help Europe. Captain America is not equipped to help Europe. We also find out that the Red Skull did NOT know that Steve Rogers had anonymously joined Hydra - that his attacks on Captain America via the Press were not to manipulate him into joining Hydra, but to delegitimize any actions he took against Red Skull in this. So when he finds out that Steve Rogers actually JOINED Hydra and HELPED him win? He's too dumbfounded to gloat. He actually thanks Steve Rogers in a sincere manner, no gloating, no speeches, no comic book villainy because even he's too surprised by this turn of events to know how to react.
And where does Steve Rogers go from here? He's just helped his greatest enemy achieve what that enemy has coveted for more than 70 years. He did it willingly and anonymously. He should have known it was wrong, but he was so blinded by something - and it's up to the reader just what that something was - that he just couldn't see that he was turning into a villain.
At the end, does he even see that he's a villain? Or has he succumbed to the idea that "Captain America is always right, so whatever Cap does is the right thing to do." that many Marvel hero's believe?
I think a lot of this is the crossing over of 2 problems. 1) that we can't do anything original nowadays, we're so set on our pre-estalished lore, so it puts a huge damper on the hey let's just make something new and original and untied to another franchise option. 2) from what little i can see, the way a lot of this is marketed is little more than just "hey we made this person black/a woman", and this whole, movement i guess? Is it correct to call the swapping thing a movement? Reeks of trying to appeal to people who we should never try to appeal to, and i don't mean women or black people, i mean the people who can't appreciate anything but social justice, and to whom the original source isn't much else but a trophy to be conquered.
It leaves the series anemic, since you've chosen to appeal to people who you've already kindof accomplished what you're going to accomplish with, they're not gonna be interested in the series longterm, they're going to file you under "not mad at right now" and never develop a long-term interest in the show, leaving the show anemic, since, while being a race or a gender can be a factor in your life, it isn't your life. You can't get that much content out of "hey i'm black" or "hey i'm a woman", at least not without forcing it and turning into a forced and over-the-top political thing, and no series or franchise deserves to get a forced political message added to it mid-way when other stuff is already going on. What i don't get about these social justice people is how they act like being black or a woman makes you automatically interesting of special, why? It doesn't. We're all stuck on this decaying earth together people, you're not special because of your skin color, we're all going to live, eat, breath, love, hate, and eventually die.
the race stuff is more like body snatching than making new characters anyway, and that is weird and creepy, to just make someone another race, that's why Michael Jackson creeped people out after the operation.
It leaves the series anemic, since you've chosen to appeal to people who you've already kindof accomplished what you're going to accomplish with, they're not gonna be interested in the series longterm, they're going to file you under "not mad at right now" and never develop a long-term interest in the show, leaving the show anemic, since, while being a race or a gender can be a factor in your life, it isn't your life. You can't get that much content out of "hey i'm black" or "hey i'm a woman", at least not without forcing it and turning into a forced and over-the-top political thing, and no series or franchise deserves to get a forced political message added to it mid-way when other stuff is already going on. What i don't get about these social justice people is how they act like being black or a woman makes you automatically interesting of special, why? It doesn't. We're all stuck on this decaying earth together people, you're not special because of your skin color, we're all going to live, eat, breath, love, hate, and eventually die.
the race stuff is more like body snatching than making new characters anyway, and that is weird and creepy, to just make someone another race, that's why Michael Jackson creeped people out after the operation.