Why changing ME3 ending is a good thing...looking at this in a broader sense.

[Nomanslander]

As vocal as all the complainers are, I've also noticed some supporting Bioware not because they particularly like the endings. But idealistically think it is wrong for us to have such power as to make Bioware consider changing their endings, any changes done to art is wrong and what not, and I'm here to disagree.

Now generally I approve of this ideal. Artist should be free to express themselves no matter how we qualify their work. But the thing is, I've grown tired of how half-assed story telling in the media in general has become. From movies, to tv shows, and especially now with this new media, video games, it's come to a point where people need to say enough is enough and start demanding better quality.

Visually, all medias have really peeked in what artist are capable of, but from what it seems it has come with a cost. Considering how expensive it's becoming to make movies and video games, taking risks and chances with the story has become complicated. Not only that it seems the art of storytelling itself has sorta been lost or misplaced with fascination over the eye candy films/games/tv today dish out. People will go watch an alien version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and not care much for the changes as long as the visuals look good enough, and that's where all the money comes in. Building confidence in executives that whatever they're doing still works.

Honestly, I'm sick of it. With movies, even with all the crap that's come out now, I still find myself re-watching older films made at least two decade ago over and over until I begin to grow tired of them also. Even the crappier movies of old seem better than a lot of the good new stuff.

Anyways, let's get back to Mass Effect 3. As well written as most of Bioware's games have been in general, let's admit it they're beginning to slip. Yet they're still making a lot of money with the games they make. I can't tell right off the top of my head (and I don't feel like googling it now) but I believe Dragon Age 2 made a shit load of money. Bioware is slipping and they need a awake up call. All of gaming needs a wake up call that the stories being written for games really suck, and they need to do better. Right now Mass Effect and Bioware still represents the pinnacle of most story telling in gaming, at least in a main stream sense. By criticizing and blasting them to the point where they actually change the ending is going to leave a giant mark on gaming as a whole. Game developers and their publishers are going to grow more worried about the story element in their games, at least a bit more than usual after ME3 ending is changed.

Now yes, I know, I'm probably being way too idealistic here. But still, it's something. ME3 ending was just half assed, and we want something better. Even if it means sacrificing the wills of the developers to work on their games more freely.

Personally I say fuck creative rights if it means I'm to continuously be fed bullshit over and over by the industries. I want better quality work...and by the way....I WANT A REMAKE TO THE DAMN SW PREQUELS...XP

lol

 

[Jodah]

The thing with video games, particular in the digital age we live in, is that the artist's peers have changed. Painters, musicians, actors, etc have always discussed their work with their peers. They have discussed what they intended their art to mean and discussed how others interpreted it.

With video games the gaming community at large has become those peers. Many are game designers themselves, not to the scale of Bioware, but designers none the less. Bioware should be discussing their goals and intentions. They should be telling us what they feel the ending means. They shouldn't be trying to brush it away with empty PR releases.

Doing something as simple as posting a message saying what they intended the ending to mean would have appeased a great many of those making noise. No, it wouldn't have calmed everyone down but this whole thing wouldn't be to the scale it is now.

 

[Zhukov]

I can actually understand people who don't like seeing audience pressure forcing the developers to implement changes against their will. Y'know, the people who say things like, "Gee, looks like if you throw a tantrum hard enough you really can move mountains" or "It's a sad day for gaming when developers lower themselves to serving the whining fanboys."

However...
a) We don't know for sure if they're actually going to change anything
b) That ending was so bad, so utterly execrable that I find it hard to believe that that was their intention all along.

 

[TheCommanders]

work...and by the way....I WANT A REMAKE TO THE DAMN SW PREQUELS...XP
lol

Have you seen this?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/5357-The-Phantom-Menace-13-Years-Later

Just curious.

OT:
I agree with most of what you say, but I have a few comments. As someone who believes the Indoctrination Theory is correct, my hope is that Bioware's choice to end the game as they did is incredibly poor judgment rather than incredibly poor writing. Basically, if the iTheory is correct, and they had finished the story after that properly, I might have been happy. (This subject is more thouroughly explored in another of my topics, link below) I still hold out hope that the upcoming DLC will do this, but there's still no real excuse for them thinking the current ending was acceptable, no matter what theory is correct. I think people throw around the term poor writing when what they actually are angry about is poor implementation. Clearly ME as a series had terrific writing, because it managed to engage enough people on a deep enough level to incite this level of outrage at a botched ending. I'm not saying not to critique them, but do it with a level head, and appropriate level of thoughtfulness.


My other topic: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.355391-Mass-Effect-3-Ending-Biowares-Responses-Indoctrination-Theory

 

[Nomanslander]

work...and by the way....I WANT A REMAKE TO THE DAMN SW PREQUELS...XP
lol

Have you seen this?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/5357-The-Phantom-Menace-13-Years-Later

As much as I sympathize with Bob, I can't agree with him in allowing myself to shrug off the fact that Episode 1 sucked and say "hey at least the visuals were nice." Because moving on basically means accepting that movies today suck and allowing the visual buffet to fill my apatite. That was basically what he was saying in that video.

Now I've never really been butt hurt by the prequels, it didn't "rape" my childhood in the least. Some people I guess have been and I do think they need to move the fuck on with their lives. But I will never stop saying that Episode 1,2, and 3 sucked and needs to be remade. I won't, and I think if it can ever be done, I'd like to one day see them as long as I'm alive. I won't be holding my breath any time soon. But I will welcome it if the day ever comes.

And tell you the truth, I don't think Bob would disagree with me either.

=/

 

[putowtin]

I'll post this again, as their words explain why this Hullabaloo has continued on for two weeks,

"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges
Into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters" - Casey Hudson.

"We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..." - Mike Gamble

If none of the statements regarding the games ending had ever been made, if every time they were asked "what's the ending?" they had simply said "we don't want to spoil that, you'll have to play the game to see" Then sure, then endings would have still sucked, but there would have been no come back.

Look at it another way, you go and buy a book, it's in the romance section, it's got a pink cover and the title is "Sara's Lover" the back describes it as a "sex romp with Pedro the life guard". You get home, pour yourself a glass of wine, and curl up with your book, which turns out to be "How to repair a 1950's washing machine"
You'd complain wouldn't you? What the Mass Effect fans are doing is the same, complaining about a product that isn't what we were promised.

 

[TheCommanders]

-snip-

Interesting, I see what you're saying.

More on topic, what did you think about the on topic part of my response?

 

[Zhukov]

If none of the statements regarding the games ending had ever been made, if every time they were asked "what's the ending?" they had simply said "we don't want to spoil that, you'll have to play the game to see" Then sure, then endings would have still sucked, but there would have been no come back.

Actually, in that case I'm pretty sure there still would have been a great deal of dissatisfaction over the space child and the complete lack of closure.

Would it have been on the same scale? No idea, but the reaction still wouldn't have been pretty.

 

[putowtin]

If none of the statements regarding the games ending had ever been made, if every time they were asked "what's the ending?" they had simply said "we don't want to spoil that, you'll have to play the game to see" Then sure, then endings would have still sucked, but there would have been no come back.

Actually, in that case I'm pretty sure there still would have been a great deal of dissatisfaction over the space child and the complete lack of closure.

Would it have been on the same scale? No idea, but the reaction still wouldn't have been pretty.

But without the promise of "the greatest ending" we that fan's wouldn't have anything to base our complaints on. Yes we'd have said "this ending sucks" but when Bioware said "It's supposed to polarize" it would have (more or less) brought an end to the complaints.

I suppose my point is that if they hadn't built us up with the promise of an amazing ending, then we wouldn't be complaining as much or as loud.

 

[Zhukov]

But without the promise of "the greatest ending" we that fan's wouldn't have anything to base our complaints on. Yes we'd have said "this ending sucks" but when Bioware said "It's supposed to polarize" it would have (more or less) brought an end to the complaints.

I suppose my point is that if they hadn't built us up with the promise of an amazing ending, then we wouldn't be complaining as much or as loud.

Nah, no way.

People would have hated that ending, regardless of prior promises. Considering that both previous games had good climaxes, wouldn't you say a satisfactory ending was kind of implicit? It was certainly expected.

As it is, the promises given just add insult to injury and provide a rallying point for angry/disappointed fans.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

 

[thhommy89]

I'm completely supporting Bioware's decision of changing. Or not changing but actually giving some closure. I wrote about this a longer article: http://feelingadventurous.co.cc/2012/03/artistic-integrity-my-ass/

But the gist of it is: All those people saying changing is bad because of artistic integrity is a stupid and lazy argument (and the only one they seem to have).

Having a bad ending and an ambiguous ending (see Inception) is not the same thing. Also Bioware said before, they will have more games in the universe, so how they intend to do it without mass relays? Or is this going to be like Halo where they only made prequels?

Because in a story driven game that sounds like a reason why I will not care enough to buy it. This right here why changing it would be a great idea.

 

[thhommy89]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

I think this is what should happen. I dont think Bioware should change the ending and its not because of that "its art" bullshit some people are throwing around. I think we should have to accept the product we bought as it is. Just because its not up to some peoples standards that does not mean that we should have the right to change it.

If you want to complain then by all means complain and show them how you feel. The best thing you can do is hope that they learn from there mistakes and dont do the same thing again. If they dont then stop buying their games.

For every one person that wants the ending changed I am sure then is also one person who will be just as pissed if Bioware does change the ending.

Yeah, but the thing is they can't just cut the losses because they actively want to release franchises and the ending practically makes that impossible.

And anyway the ending is not just bad, but an unholy mess of confusion, plotholes and thrown together half assed explanations. I mean we saw bad endings before and yeah they were unsatisfactory but people didn't actually rebel against them. We deserve a normal closure of the story and the characters.

If nothing else the breathing Shephard at 100% playthrough raises a few questions.

 

[A Weakgeek]

Yeah, I myself wait eagerly for the day that the whole industry is made out of George Lucases who release everything again and again so the originals are lost and forgotten.

 

[wooty]

If they cave in though does that mean theres a potential for rage and backlash if people dont like the ending to any other games out there, new releases or even unreleased games.

This whole wave of fan rage could just keep going on forever and we may never hear the end of it.

Just a thought

 

[irishda]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

I think this is what should happen. I dont think Bioware should change the ending and its not because of that "its art" bullshit some people are throwing around. I think we should have to accept the product we bought as it is. Just because its not up to some peoples standards that does not mean that we should have the right to change it.

If you want to complain then by all means complain and show them how you feel. The best thing you can do is hope that they learn from there mistakes and dont do the same thing again. If they dont then stop buying their games.

For every one person that wants the ending changed I am sure then is also one person who will be just as pissed if Bioware does change the ending.

Yeah, but the thing is they can't just cut the losses because they actively want to release franchises and the ending practically makes that impossible.

And anyway the ending is not just bad, but an unholy mess of confusion, plotholes and thrown together half assed explanations. I mean we saw bad endings before and yeah they were unsatisfactory but people didn't actually rebel against them. We deserve a normal closure of the story and the characters.

If nothing else the breathing Shephard at 100% playthrough raises a few questions.

The Mass Effect universe is large enough that there's no reason they can't have plenty of stories within it without clarifying what happened to Shephard. And, if nothing else, these new franchises could potentially tie the loose ends.

Either way, it's time for people to move on. For starters, Bioware doesn't learn their lesson unless people stop giving a shit about the game and putting their money towards something else. Sucking up some premium DLC for the sake of you having a more satisfactory conclusion only strengthens their notion that they can make a shit ton of money by pulling more "epilogue DLC". People have brought up Fallout 3 as an example of endings that were changed because the fans wanted it to, but I don't remember everyone hating on that game's ending so much.

Secondly, rereleasing an ending will only cause a bigger shit-storm as people continue to argue over the power we (the customer) should have over developers' stories in games. And before you say things like artists consult peers all the time, and in video games, we're their peers, remember, the average person is a pretty shitty storyteller. Hell even the average storyteller is kind of shitty (See: the Mass Effect writers).