Why changing ME3 ending is a good thing...looking at this in a broader sense.

[Quesa]

I can't understand how anyone could watch that ending sequence and not see where corners were cut and blanks left in place specifically to be filled with DLC. EA just miscalculated how much they could hold the player base to ransom for. The ending isn't going to be changed any more than it was going to be before, the only difference is now it will be unveiled as something that was done to appease the base rather than what they'd been planning from the start.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

b) That ending was so bad, so utterly execrable that I find it hard to believe that that was their intention all along.

Perhaps it's a cry that they really really really want to stop making Mass Effect games by nuking the canon universe.

 

[Christopher Callahan]

If they cave in though does that mean theres a potential for rage and backlash if people dont like the ending to any other games out there, new releases or even unreleased games.

This whole wave of fan rage could just keep going on forever and we may never hear the end of it.

Just a thought

Welcome to the Internet. This sort of thing goes on everyday all day all the time.

 

[WanderingFool]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

I think this is what should happen. I dont think Bioware should change the ending and its not because of that "its art" bullshit some people are throwing around. I think we should have to accept the product we bought as it is. Just because its not up to some peoples standards that does not mean that we should have the right to change it.

If you want to complain then by all means complain and show them how you feel. The best thing you can do is hope that they learn from there mistakes and dont do the same thing again. If they dont then stop buying their games.

For every one person that wants the ending changed I am sure then is also one person who will be just as pissed if Bioware does change the ending.

Yeah, but the thing is they can't just cut the losses because they actively want to release franchises and the ending practically makes that impossible.

And anyway the ending is not just bad, but an unholy mess of confusion, plotholes and thrown together half assed explanations. I mean we saw bad endings before and yeah they were unsatisfactory but people didn't actually rebel against them. We deserve a normal closure of the story and the characters.

If nothing else the breathing Shephard at 100% playthrough raises a few questions.

The Mass Effect universe is large enough that there's no reason they can't have plenty of stories within it without clarifying what happened to Shephard. And, if nothing else, these new franchises could potentially tie the loose ends.

Either way, it's time for people to move on. For starters, Bioware doesn't learn their lesson unless people stop giving a shit about the game and putting their money towards something else. Sucking up some premium DLC for the sake of you having a more satisfactory conclusion only strengthens their notion that they can make a shit ton of money by pulling more "epilogue DLC". People have brought up Fallout 3 as an example of endings that were changed because the fans wanted it to, but I don't remember everyone hating on that game's ending so much.

Secondly, rereleasing an ending will only cause a bigger shit-storm as people continue to argue over the power we (the customer) should have over developers' stories in games. And before you say things like artists consult peers all the time, and in video games, we're their peers, remember, the average person is a pretty shitty storyteller. Hell even the average storyteller is kind of shitty (See: the Mass Effect writers).

You know? I thought the only problem with the ending was that you could continue playing if you didnt sacrifice yourself. Of course, with Broken Steel, even if it makes perfect sense to send the Super Mutant or Ghoul instead of you or Lyons, it still treats you like a coward... I dont care how great FO3 was, its morality system was shit.

 

[Gnoekeos]

Recently I've discovered Jim Henson's The Story teller is on Netflix and I watched an episode called The Solider and Death or something I don't remember the title exactly word for word. The way the show works is that its supposed to be like the old days before we had videogames and tv and even books where the best entertainment we could get was a good story while gathered around the fireside. So anyway after a very good story where the soldier obtains many things and outwits some devil and an encounter with death they end the story very open ended which given the events of the story I would have appreciated the closure at the end. Now given that I would like the closure I would never follow the story teller around and harass him until he gave me an ending I liked because the fact is that's just how the story ends anything else he told me would just be something he made up just to get me to leave him alone and I wouldn't take any satisfaction in hearing that. Even if it was really good I'd always know that what he told me wasn't "real" It was just made up to quell my whining. I don't really have a point beyond asking do any of you who want this new ending think that its not going to feel really hollow and pointless once you get it?

 

[boag]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

You seem to assume that they are remaking it, for all we know they already did have everything in there but just cut it out at the last minute for god knows what reason.

The initial reports state that the DLC will be coming out in april, how the fuck would they even prepare everything for a DLC add in less than a month?

I know I am assuming somethings as well, but I can honestly say I err in the favor of money in these matters.

Either way, it's time for people to move on. For starters, Bioware doesn't learn their lesson unless people stop giving a shit about the game and putting their money towards something else. Sucking up some premium DLC for the sake of you having a more satisfactory conclusion only strengthens their notion that they can make a shit ton of money by pulling more "epilogue DLC". People have brought up Fallout 3 as an example of endings that were changed because the fans wanted it to, but I don't remember everyone hating on that game's ending so much.

Secondly, rereleasing an ending will only cause a bigger shit-storm as people continue to argue over the power we (the customer) should have over developers' stories in games. And before you say things like artists consult peers all the time, and in video games, we're their peers, remember, the average person is a pretty shitty storyteller. Hell even the average storyteller is kind of shitty (See: the Mass Effect writers).

you are asking people not to argue, because arguing will cause more arguing, you would have more luck asking a shark not to eat you while covered in blood and splashing in the water.

People argue, if anything ME3 has proved that, there has been this very vocal group of people that bitched about every single thing, I blame them for completely disrupting and tainting the image of people before the real issues came to light, because I am certain that most people complaining about the complaining are just sick of the ME3 threads in general.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Right now Mass Effect and Bioware still represents the pinnacle of most story telling in gaming,

Writing, not story telling. Their writing is excellent. Their story telling sucks. (I can point to the end of Mass Effect 3 if you need proof)
Sorry, it's like my job to correct people when they say that.


But yeah, I do agree with you on this, in theory.

I doubt that in practice anyone will see this as a wake up call. It's far more likely that it'll happen the other way around. and people will see story as just one more "gimmick" they can get wrong and just start ignoring it all together. Because nobody got up in arms over Gears of War and that was the worst written trilogy in gaming. Mass Effect 3 was aimed at a very specific audience who ripped it to shreds. The average audience doesn't care about being engaged with the events or motivation for shooting bad guys. There are more of those people and their easier to please, I'll count this as a win if only Bioware takes this as a wake up call and stops making dumb-face-action-games.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think that because a bunch of extremely loud self-centered whiners demand it is the worst possible reason to change something. Personally, if ME were my IP, I'd be giving all these whiners a huge middle finger and telling them to fuck right off in no uncertain terms. ...okay maybe not in those exact words, but you get the idea.
I think this is one of those times when I think the creators of something should have the balls to stand up to their self-centered ungrateful fans ans say "fuck off!"

 

[Thoric485]

EAware don't have that right, because they don't treat their works like art in the first place.

They monetize them in the most damaging ways, they insert hamfisted cameos, they've spent more on marketing this shit than developing it. They did all that without feeling their creative rights are being violated.

But when fans say something, they hide behind artistic integrity? That's not right.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

You seem to assume that they are remaking it, for all we know they already did have everything in there but just cut it out at the last minute for god knows what reason.

The initial reports state that the DLC will be coming out in april, how the fuck would they even prepare everything for a DLC add in less than a month?

I know I am assuming somethings as well, but I can honestly say I err in the favor of money in these matters.

I just have a gut feeling this "true ending" DLC won't put matters to rest.

Maybe it's because it all seems to be coming from a damage control mentality on Bioware's end; They're not doing it because they want to, but because the fans are pissed off and the developers hope this DLC will shut them up.

It'd be swell if Bioware released something that would have the ending make sense, as well as having the choices you've made throughout the games actually mean something. But I just don't see that happening.

 

[boag]

Here's the thing though, these endings can't be improved unless Bioware is planning on throwing a lot more money at it... which they won't.

At least, not for a price that we will have to pay.

All I demand from Bioware is, cut your losses, learn from your mistakes, and move on to something else. This whole remaking the ending is going to make what was already a mess into an even bigger mess.

I know it sucks, but we're gonna have to let this go before it starts to fester. Which some would argue it already has.

You seem to assume that they are remaking it, for all we know they already did have everything in there but just cut it out at the last minute for god knows what reason.

The initial reports state that the DLC will be coming out in april, how the fuck would they even prepare everything for a DLC add in less than a month?

I know I am assuming somethings as well, but I can honestly say I err in the favor of money in these matters.

I just have a gut feeling this "true ending" DLC won't put matters to rest.

Maybe it's because it all seems to be coming from a damage control mentality on Bioware's end; They're not doing it because they want to, but because the fans are pissed off and the developers hope this DLC will shut them up.

It'd be swell if Bioware released something that would have the ending make sense, as well as having the choices you've made throughout the games actually mean something. But I just don't see that happening.

I can agree with that, hell im probably giving Bioware more credit than they deserve by thinking they were intelligent enough to put out such a deviously clever plan into motion.

but whatever happens we will know only until their next announcement about DLC comes out clearing things up, like ive stated before, the ball is now in Biowares court, what they do with it will either please people or piss them off even more, so they better act fast before the little leeway time they bought just makes people become un interested in the game anymore, I Reckon they have until Diablo 3 is released before they lose the spotlight completely.

 

[Ticonderoga117]

I think that because a bunch of extremely loud self-centered whiners demand it is the worst possible reason to change something. Personally, if ME were my IP, I'd be giving all these whiners a huge middle finger and telling them to fuck right off in no uncertain terms. ...okay maybe not in those exact words, but you get the idea.
I think this is one of those times when I think the creators of something should have the balls to stand up to their self-centered ungrateful fans ans say "fuck off!"

While good if what you make makes a lick of sense, it's bad business. This is a sure fire way for a company to die in a ball of flame because your customers would know you don't care in the least, so they won't care about you.

 

[thhommy89]

Yeah, but the thing is they can't just cut the losses because they actively want to release franchises and the ending practically makes that impossible.

And anyway the ending is not just bad, but an unholy mess of confusion, plotholes and thrown together half assed explanations. I mean we saw bad endings before and yeah they were unsatisfactory but people didn't actually rebel against them. We deserve a normal closure of the story and the characters.

If nothing else the breathing Shephard at 100% playthrough raises a few questions.

I think they can just cut their losses and that they should. Especially when you consider that most people who are ranting about this ending and screaming that they will never buy another Bioware game again are going to be the first to preorder the next Bioware game.


If Bioware gives in to their fans now then they will loose all of their integrity. Once people know that they will eventually cave they will start ranting and raving about every tiny little thing until EA closes Bioware because it cant make money anymore with it constantly having to fork over loads of cash to change everything fans dont like about a game. It will also have an effect on every other game company out there.

Come on, they're not dealing with terrorists here, sure somebody will always be unsatisfied, but this wont bring the end of integrity. The ending was genuinly bad and they should amend that. I'm not necessarily saying change it, but address the questions and inconsistencies raised by the ending.

And in anyway making new content wont cause money loss but rather be a new income source. That's the point of DLCs. They are going to do this anyway and why not please the fans rather than just introduce a new character or a new storyline.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think that because a bunch of extremely loud self-centered whiners demand it is the worst possible reason to change something. Personally, if ME were my IP, I'd be giving all these whiners a huge middle finger and telling them to fuck right off in no uncertain terms. ...okay maybe not in those exact words, but you get the idea.
I think this is one of those times when I think the creators of something should have the balls to stand up to their self-centered ungrateful fans ans say "fuck off!"

While good if what you make makes a lick of sense, it's bad business. This is a sure fire way for a company to die in a ball of flame because your customers would know you don't care in the least, so they won't care about you.

Why should they care about customers who are never EVER satisfied no matter what they do? Might as well join Sisyphus in trying to push that boulder up the hill.

 

[Ticonderoga117]

I think that because a bunch of extremely loud self-centered whiners demand it is the worst possible reason to change something. Personally, if ME were my IP, I'd be giving all these whiners a huge middle finger and telling them to fuck right off in no uncertain terms. ...okay maybe not in those exact words, but you get the idea.
I think this is one of those times when I think the creators of something should have the balls to stand up to their self-centered ungrateful fans ans say "fuck off!"

While good if what you make makes a lick of sense, it's bad business. This is a sure fire way for a company to die in a ball of flame because your customers would know you don't care in the least, so they won't care about you.

Why should they care about customers who are never EVER satisfied no matter what they do? Might as well join Sisyphus in trying to push that boulder up the hill.

While that would be true, I don't think there has ever been such dislike over ME1 or ME2. While it is true that you can never please everyone, this event (imo) is magnitudes larger than a few malcontents. That's generally a sign that something is wrong. Example: If only one person says the ship is sinking chances are it's probably not. However, if you have 50 people yelling "The ship is sinking!" chances are there is something up.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think that because a bunch of extremely loud self-centered whiners demand it is the worst possible reason to change something. Personally, if ME were my IP, I'd be giving all these whiners a huge middle finger and telling them to fuck right off in no uncertain terms. ...okay maybe not in those exact words, but you get the idea.
I think this is one of those times when I think the creators of something should have the balls to stand up to their self-centered ungrateful fans ans say "fuck off!"

While good if what you make makes a lick of sense, it's bad business. This is a sure fire way for a company to die in a ball of flame because your customers would know you don't care in the least, so they won't care about you.

Why should they care about customers who are never EVER satisfied no matter what they do? Might as well join Sisyphus in trying to push that boulder up the hill.

While that would be true, I don't think there has ever been such dislike over ME1 or ME2. While it is true that you can never please everyone, this event (imo) is magnitudes larger than a few malcontents. That's generally a sign that something is wrong. Example: If only one person says the ship is sinking chances are it's probably not. However, if you have 50 people yelling "The ship is sinking!" chances are there is something up.

Ok maybe, but I still don't like the idea of arbitrarily changing the already established ending(s), even if they're bad endings.
But WTF do I know? I haven't played ME3 and I'm probably not going to. I only got a description of the endings from one of the many many threads discussing the subject.

 

[DANEgerous]

But that is the thing we did not make them change anything, we just went "wow what a pwice of trash, i an don with Bioware forever" and they just want to keep a customer base and as stated they still want to keep making money so they appeased us not out of any force other than threatening to never by a game again. Though I guess that is the point of the topic we told them we expect more and they listened... sort of.

I mean i realize people claim "false advertising" and demand a refund but to be honest they have no real case even with the fact the trailer says "Take back earth" and you absolutely can not do so it is not actually defective just bad.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

I'm completely supporting Bioware's decision of changing. Or not changing but actually giving some closure. I wrote about this a longer article: http://feelingadventurous.co.cc/2012/03/artistic-integrity-my-ass/

But the gist of it is: All those people saying changing is bad because of artistic integrity is a stupid and lazy argument (and the only one they seem to have).

Having a bad ending and an ambiguous ending (see Inception) is not the same thing. Also Bioware said before, they will have more games in the universe, so how they intend to do it without mass relays? Or is this going to be like Halo where they only made prequels?

Because in a story driven game that sounds like a reason why I will not care enough to buy it. This right here why changing it would be a great idea.

To be fair the ambiguity of the ending in Inception was entirely expecting, and indeed was the entire point of the film. It was a complete summation of the films main theme. If you didn't like it fair enough but it was true to the film.

Mass Effect 3s ending is terrible because not only is it an ambiguous mess but it introduces new concepts and characters minutes before the ending, the design of it also completely goes against the themes of the series, characters including your own don't act true to themselves and the reasoning for the ending is completely stupid because you've actively proven the starchild is wrong through the events of the game.

 

[Zen Toombs]

If they cave in though does that mean theres a potential for rage and backlash if people dont like the ending to any other games out there, new releases or even unreleased games.

This whole wave of fan rage could just keep going on forever and we may never hear the end of it.

Just a thought

And if we allow gays to marry, then we have to allow people to marry their pigs! MADNESS LIES THAT WAY!

[HEADING=2]MADNESS![/HEADING]

Seriously though, I find "slippery slope" arguments to be overused and trite. There already was potential "potential for rage and backlash if people don't like the ending", it just has never manifested on this scale. And that's mostly because the creaters of a game have yet to build such a relationship of trust with their players and then crush them so horribly.

Unless the Bioware team is being mad geniuses, they dropped the ball HARD. Bad things should come of that.

Why should they care about customers who are never EVER satisfied no matter what they do? Might as well join Sisyphus in trying to push that boulder up the hill.

I for one would have been mostly satisfied with the game ending five minutes earlier with Shep and Anderson, with maybe a text crawl talking about what happens after the events of the game a la Dragon Age: Origins. All that would have taken would be to cut the "Reaper King-God Child" and the slap in the face that was this placard

Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper thread. Now you can continue to build that legend through further gameplay and downloadable content.

after Shep is presumably dead, and spend about half as long as it took to make those cut scenes to write a couple "after the end" text crawls.

I didn't want or need an ending with pie and sunshine. I wanted an actual ENDING, not a steaming pile that comes out of nowhere and doesn't fit with either the tone or lore of the series.