Why did some people not enjoy MGS4?

[TheRightToArmBears]

MGS4 is awesome. It is my favorite game ever. And I know someone is going to quote me and tell me how much of a brainless idiot I am, but I have two words for those who do: UP YOURS

When I make A desicion on a game I don't about someone halfway around the world who thinks because my opinions differ to theirs I must be an idiot.

MGS4 is a stealth game. However, it gives you the option to run in, guns blazing. I latter levels, this results in a swift death. This is why I prefer it to MGS3. It is much easier to intergrate action into it. So if you didn't find it stealthy it's your own fault.

 

[TheButtonMashEffect]

MGS4 is awesome. It is my favorite game ever. And I know someone is going to quote me and tell me how much of a brainless idiot I am, but I have two words for those who do: UP YOURS

When I make A desicion on a game I don't about someone halfway around the world who thinks because my opinions differ to theirs I must be an idiot.

MGS4 is a stealth game. However, it gives you the option to run in, guns blazing. I latter levels, this results in a swift death. This is why I prefer it to MGS3. It is much easier to intergrate action into it. So if you didn't find it stealthy it's your own fault.

Absolutly correct. UP yours to anyone who calls anyone an idiot for liking MGS4 most of you are so stuck up your own arses to realise that you can play the game two ways.

 

[Sir Ollie]

I loved MGS4, at times i got annoyed about the cutscenes but i played all the others so it was not like i wasn't expecting it, also it is a stealth game but like as others say the action works better now then it did in MGS3

 

[RAWKSTAR]

MGS4 is REALLY only for the fans because at this point in the story, newbies wouldn't like it too much.

Not true actually. I had only played MGS3 before 4, then i went back and played the other two. So i was not so much a fan of the series before i played it.

But you played the other games. I'm talking about newbies to the series who have never played the other 3 games.

Never played any other ones than 4 and thought it was fantastic so....

 

[TheButtonMashEffect]

MGS4 is REALLY only for the fans because at this point in the story, newbies wouldn't like it too much.

Not true actually. I had only played MGS3 before 4, then i went back and played the other two. So i was not so much a fan of the series before i played it.

But you played the other games. I'm talking about newbies to the series who have never played the other 3 games.

Never played any other ones than 4 and thought it was fantastic so....

Same story over here really apart from i had dabbed abit in MGS3 before i fully played through 4.

 

[GuerrillaClock]

Yes, the story is big and epic, but that doesn't automatically equate to good. It wasn't. The ridiculousness of the plot twists really grated on me, as did every character returning from the dead just for the sake of a plot twist because no-one on the writing staff could think of a way to write a genuinely good twist. While it did an ok job of tying up any and all loose ends, the plot should never have gotten so convoluted that there were so many to tie up in the first place. Having said all that, if you wanted to see how the series finished (please God let it be finished) then I suppose I can see some merit in it. Not enough to class it as "great", mind.

The reason I didn't like it was that the gameplay was so miserably crippled to an almost game-breaking degree. Where do I start? Duff controls (please don't feed me the "intentional" line wheeled out by fanboys, even if something is intentionally crap, is it not still crap?), turgid AI and a distinctly unrewarding feel. Only once throughout did I ever feel I was working towards a goal and not just on my way towards another bland, uninspiring, pretentious and unnecessary cutscene about frying fucking eggs or something. A game with so many outstanding flaws cannot, in my book, be classed as great.

 

[Vlane]

Yes, the story is big and epic, but that doesn't automatically equate to good. It wasn't. The ridiculousness of the plot twists really grated on me, as did every character returning from the dead just for the sake of a plot twist because no-one on the writing staff could think of a way to write a genuinely good twist. While it did an ok job of tying up any and all loose ends, the plot should never have gotten so convoluted that there were so many to tie up in the first place. Having said all that, if you wanted to see how the series finished (please God let it be finished) then I suppose I can see some merit in it. Not enough to class it as "great", mind.

It's your opinion that the story is bad but other people think it's good.

Also which characters came back to life?

 

[Shoyuu]

Also which characters came back to life?

Um....

Spoiler

Big Boss at the end

I like it, but I wish the actual game play was longer...
I had way too much popcorn while playing MGS4.

 

[Vlane]

Also which characters came back to life?

Um....

Spoiler

Big Boss at the end

I like it, but I wish the actual game play was longer...
I had way too much popcorn while playing MGS4.

When did he died? I can't remember that.

 

[GuerrillaClock]

Yes, the story is big and epic, but that doesn't automatically equate to good. It wasn't. The ridiculousness of the plot twists really grated on me, as did every character returning from the dead just for the sake of a plot twist because no-one on the writing staff could think of a way to write a genuinely good twist. While it did an ok job of tying up any and all loose ends, the plot should never have gotten so convoluted that there were so many to tie up in the first place. Having said all that, if you wanted to see how the series finished (please God let it be finished) then I suppose I can see some merit in it. Not enough to class it as "great", mind.

It's your opinion that the story is bad but other people think it's good.

Also which characters came back to life?

Just to clarify, I was talking about the series as a whole rather than specifically 4, although this peaks with the stupid return of

Spoiler

Big Boss

.

In addition to this there's the Liquid Snake stuff where he returns through Ocelot transplanting his hand onto his arm. Not technically returning to life, but yes I am counting it.
The Raiden somehow returns from certain death (twice, if I'm not mistaken). Also the resolution to the plot thread regarding his wife was particularly lazy and unsatisfactory.
Then there's than Vamp (Vampire? I forget his name).

That's four. One of them happened twice, so technically 5. This, in my opinion, is very lazy writing.


I know these revivals are all explained in the game, what my point is is that they must surely be a better way of creating shock through plot twists than simply bringing characters back from the grave in increasingly cack-handed ways.

EDIT: I'm sure there are more examples than this, these examples were ones I got off the top of my head.

 

[manicfoot]

Some of the problems I had with it:
1. Rambly, preachy, repetitive dialogue - I know previous MGS games have been dialogue heavy but it had structure to it. I found the speech given at the end to be genuinely painful to watch. It was a completely unstructured rant.

2. General Narrative - I love Kojima's way of storytelling. MGS2 is one of my favourite games of all time for that very reason but there were way too many convenient plot twists for me to swallow. He tried to do too much to please the fans and I didn't like finding out what and who the patriots really were. I thought it would've been something much cooler...

3. Long death scenes - Big mama, Naomi, Ocelot an Big Boss didn't exactly die suddenly. Big mama was impaled on a stick and then walked into fire for a corpse she knew wasn't big boss and then had the time/strength to talk to Snake about it afterwards. I'm sorry, but that is SHIT.

That said, the game does still have its moments and I generally did enjoy it. But some parts for me are cringeworthy.

 

[Shoyuu]

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjGJprcgPUw&feature=related
And in MGS4 when you are with Big Mama trying to protect the badly burnt "Big Boss'" body (Which turns out to be Solidus and is later destroyed by Liquid). It felt that Kojima was trying to add too many plot twists that it got out of hand.

It seems that Kojima was just fucking with his audience.

 

[Vlane]

Just to clarify, I was talking about the series as a whole rather than specifically 4, although this peaks with the stupid return of

Spoiler

Big Boss

.

In addition to this there's the Liquid Snake stuff where he returns through Ocelot transplanting his hand onto his arm. Not technically returning to life, but yes I am counting it.
The Raiden somehow returns from certain death (twice, if I'm not mistaken). Also the resolution to the plot thread regarding his wife was particularly lazy and unsatisfactory.
Then there's than Vamp (Vampire? I forget his name).

That's four. One of them happened twice, so technically 5. This, in my opinion, is very lazy writing.


I know these revivals are all explained in the game, what my point is is that they must surely be a better way of creating shock through plot twists than simply bringing characters back from the grave in increasingly cack-handed ways.

EDIT: I'm sure there are more examples than this, these examples were ones I got off the top of my head.

Spoiler

Big Boss actually survived. As far as I remember he got regenerated (something like that) with nanomachines. I'm pretty sure that happened but I can't remember the exact story.

I won't count the Liquid thing because he doesn't come back.

Raiden only comes "back to life" once (if you want it that way). I can't really remember the scene exactly but nobody actually said that he is dead.

Vamp also never dies in any MGS game except 4.

 

[GuerrillaClock]

No. All the characters I mentioned died, until Kojima decided he needed a plot twist and decided to invent a way they could have survived. Nanomachines, no doubt, was merely a convenient excuse so he could bring back anyone he wanted without having to explain it in any half-decent way.

As I said, all of the revivals were explained in the game, but in a sloppy manner than smacked of cheap, lazy writing.

Vamp was killed by Raiden, and I am familiar enough with MGS canon to know that (my friends are hardcore fanboys, see) Raiden suffered some sort of HEAD TRANSPLANT, which even I can't suspend my disbelief for. So yes, he does die, and then again in MGS 4 when he is squished.

Spoiler

Big Boss was dead. Stone dead. As a dodo. They decided to later bring him back so he could spew exposition all over the end of the story about how he wasn't really dead. But when he was killed, I highly doubt they planned his return at the end of the series.

But maybe I'm just being over-cynical.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Citing the reasons I don't like MGS4 would basically be retelling why I don't like MGS in general.

First, the story. It's often so incredibly convoluted that it loses any real sense of realism that's supposed to be there. That being said, the story is well delivered and I enjoy watching the story unfold. It's just that, once you get to the end and think about all the twists your brain wants to kick you in the eyes.

Second, I don't like stealth games. I never have. I'm not any good at them and I simply don't have the patience for the style of game they foster. Yes, when I play a game like hitman and execute the perfect hit (silent assassin rating) I feel like a badass for a moment but then I remember just how many times I played the level to get my timing and strategy perfectly right.

Third, the minute you screw up in MGS and get hit with an alert, the game's control set that is perfectly suited for sneaking proves to be your greatest frustration as you try to desperately fight and/or escape. The fact that much of MGS4 is focused on combat using controls that do little more than make me want to pull out hair doesn't help much.

And finally, Snake as a senior citizen is just silly. Okay, it's nice to tie up that lose end and all but still - he goes from a badass action hero to someone's grandfather. It's hard to imagine I'm saving the world when I worry he's going to break a hip.

 

[Kikosemmek]

The story is far beyond the characters, it's about the growing power of the military. War's fought by proxy, government's and systems no longer ruled by strong leaders or passion but rather by cold logic and technological superiority. It's a truly mature concept and though some games and even movies explore this concept, say Army of Two (which failed at it terribly) and Lord of War, it's way over people's heads for the average developer to successfully depict in it's entirety.

The story involves the background that you mentioned as well as character interactions and any minor plot the game makes its business. I can, for example, point out that The Happening had a great concept, just like MGS does, but awkward dialogue and unreal, unappealing character interactions always reminded the viewers that it was a movie they're watching; a bad movie, at that. I hold the same feelings toward MGS, because the premise of the game in and of itself is nothing I can judge badly. It's the never-ending convolution and plot holes that did the story in. The dialogue is cheesy. I'll point out a scene from MGS4 where Snake is on a bike with some lady, both of them being chased by soldiers. She embarks on a fucking monologue while petting the bike before deciding to drive and escape death. That's just retarded. Things like these permeate MGS. You'll have to admit- being ridiculous is quite the meme in MGS. Remember that in MGS1 there were two alternate endings? One of which had Meryl die. The other had Otacon kick the bucket. So, why are they both alive in MGS4? Let me guess: nanomachines. No, no, it's played out.

The fact that the message got through is enough to show that there is very competent story telling within the game. And why do they have to change their minds and outlooks? Liquid was the enemy, and even if he was trying to destroy the system, Snake was never concerned with that, he only wanted Liquid.

I disagree. I've seen many games deliver great stories. Try the Baldur's Gate, Max Payne and Half-Life series. They all involve heavy storytelling (you might disagree about Half-Life but I believe that it plays like a movie). The characters should change their outlook because they're constantly taking orders to do something or other as their worldview is changed by Hideo Kojima with every little twist and turn. Sooner or later, a man would trust no one, and pretty much stop caring. That is how Kojima did my interest in. The story just became pointlessly convoluted and so it was pointless to keep up with it. It was clutter.

And so what if he made it up as he went? Stephen King, who is one of the greatest story teller's of all time makes up all his stories as he writes them. To plan ahead can sometimes make the writer ignore glaring flaws and plot holes in their story, I know this because I write quite a bit myself and I've come across this very problem

I have to apologize for being unclear. I wasn't criticizing the fact that he didn't plan ahead. I'm criticizing the fact that he blatantly said that he makes up the story as he goes along irrespective to plot integrity or cohesion. As it seems to me, he's trolling his fans. He knows he doesn't give two shits about the story.

Movies seem to have lost the ability to explore worlds and recite great stories and characters, art has degraded into obnoxious, elitist and arbitrary symbolism and though books are still strong in that field, it doesn't appeal to everyone.

I disagree. Watch There Will Be Blood or The Curious Case of Benjamin Button. Both of these are recent pictures with great storytelling. I agree with you about modern art, but I have to say that not all up and coming visual artists today are modernists.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

The story was very wierd since I haven't played the other ones. Its fun gameplay wise just to much story not enough action.

(The story doesn't sound bad the game just feels like it was made for fans)

 

[Log Lady]

I'd say the first two metal gear solids rank among my favorite games of all time (with mega man, smash, some SNES rpgs, and half lifes). I actually didn't like 4 as much my first time through because the plot was like an epilogue to the first three games. Oh, that's except for act 4, which blew my mind. Also the forest scene at the end of act two is amazing. I think not playing 3 meant I didn't get half the references. The other thing that's weird is that the game play is deep, but you can miss it entirely if you take an action focus.

 

[Credge]

I have never played it but the two things I've heard about it that are negative are; A. it has enough cutscenes to be a short movie, and B. the story makes no sense unless you've played through all the prequels.

I hear these a lot, but it mainly seems to come from those who haven't actually played the game.

My dad watched me play the game (it interested him as it was like a movie) and he got every bit of the plot without playing previous games. He didn't know who the characters were, but it didn't matter. He recognized people as good guys and bad guys easily, understood what was going on in the game, understood what had happened in previous games, and enjoyed watching me play.

If my 50 year old dad can get the 'complex' plot then I don't see why others can't.

The game had plenty of cutscenes, but none of them felt out of place or prolonged for the sake of it.

Mainly, complaints seem to come from those that read about the game instead of playing it. Those that played it and complained about either... well, I feel they probably aren't the brightest of people.