We don't have a problem with casual games, we have a problem with casual games flooding the market and slowly putting the squeeze on the hardcore goodness.mrpmpfan said:
Why do all games have to be hardcore?
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I really don't give a shit how hardcore a game is, just as long as it has an interesting story and/or is not too bad gameplay-wise.
I've always thought that some gamers are very defensive about their hobby. They claim that they were the ones that liked video games while everyone else was making fun of them. And now, they say, everyone is coming in on their territory? No, sir. They won't have that. (Comic to illustrate such rage: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=280)
Once again, I don't give a shit who plays video games or not. I'm not going to force it down someone's throat or ***** that they can get involved because game developers are creating easier games to appeal to casual gamers. But I agree with Continuity, I do have a problem with developers churning out shitty, gimmicky games because they know casual games don't care enough to actually research a game. It's not fair, really.
I've always thought that some gamers are very defensive about their hobby. They claim that they were the ones that liked video games while everyone else was making fun of them. And now, they say, everyone is coming in on their territory? No, sir. They won't have that. (Comic to illustrate such rage: http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=280)
Once again, I don't give a shit who plays video games or not. I'm not going to force it down someone's throat or ***** that they can get involved because game developers are creating easier games to appeal to casual gamers. But I agree with Continuity, I do have a problem with developers churning out shitty, gimmicky games because they know casual games don't care enough to actually research a game. It's not fair, really.
Let's take a look at the word 'hardcore.' Literally, a hard core. The core of a physical object is the smallest part of it. Hard suggests impregnability. Put into context this means a devoted, ironclad, minority fan base. The other 'layers' of the object have a physically larger surface area; this can be shown as a larger user group denomination. They won't be as 'hardcore' because they only want to play for an hour then move onto something else.
Games are only as hardcore as the people who play them.
You could spend thousands of hours on L4D2, getting all the achievements and becoming the undisputed god amongst men of zombie killers (naturally, only Realism mode will do.) Or you could blast through a campaign on easy difficulty with some friends and have a bit of a laugh, then go back to it a few days later to do it again.
Games are only as hardcore as the people who play them.
You could spend thousands of hours on L4D2, getting all the achievements and becoming the undisputed god amongst men of zombie killers (naturally, only Realism mode will do.) Or you could blast through a campaign on easy difficulty with some friends and have a bit of a laugh, then go back to it a few days later to do it again.
There's a vg cats comic I should've bothered to find and learnt how to properly link here. It's a good example. Because, before everyone who played games as a proper hobby were gamers, whereas now developers like Nintendo are trying to open up the audience, so we need this kind of "hardcore" classification because it's kind of annoying to hear someone who only plays Bejeweled or call themselves a gamer.
The bashing of motion controls have some merit. As for what console or games that are "hardcore", that I don't know, or care.
I played a Zelda game at a friends house at the time of it's release. At first I thought it was cool to swing the sword with the Wii-mote. However, it took me an hour to figure out how to make the same motion with my wrist.
Yup, that's my beef with the Wii(and motion controls). Fine games, really, but WHY the hype I do not undestand. It's pointless. If there is a choice between regular controls and motion controls, wonder which will be used the most? I put my bet on regular controls.
Motion controls do not make the game more immersive, nor do they make the game easier to control, or make a story better. Just making my capral tunnel syndrome worse, if anything. Like hell I'm going to make elaborate motions with my arms and legs just so that I can play a ¤"#%&"&ing game.
Not only that, they make really boring titles. Even more so than Wii. It seems to me, that they're just doing the same thing on their systems that Nintendo already have on their machince in one way or the other. And then put 3D ontop of that, enough to give me a headache. The only title that I even care about on Kinect are those Kinectimals or whatever they're called. On Move, I don't even know a title that support that piece of shit, that's about how interesting that is.
I played a Zelda game at a friends house at the time of it's release. At first I thought it was cool to swing the sword with the Wii-mote. However, it took me an hour to figure out how to make the same motion with my wrist.
Yup, that's my beef with the Wii(and motion controls). Fine games, really, but WHY the hype I do not undestand. It's pointless. If there is a choice between regular controls and motion controls, wonder which will be used the most? I put my bet on regular controls.
Motion controls do not make the game more immersive, nor do they make the game easier to control, or make a story better. Just making my capral tunnel syndrome worse, if anything. Like hell I'm going to make elaborate motions with my arms and legs just so that I can play a ¤"#%&"&ing game.
Not only that, they make really boring titles. Even more so than Wii. It seems to me, that they're just doing the same thing on their systems that Nintendo already have on their machince in one way or the other. And then put 3D ontop of that, enough to give me a headache. The only title that I even care about on Kinect are those Kinectimals or whatever they're called. On Move, I don't even know a title that support that piece of shit, that's about how interesting that is.
Ever heard of a game called 'Modern Warfare 2'? or how about 'Red Dead Redemption'? These games could be labeled 'hardcore' and they still sell very well.Triforce_Guardian said:
Casual games have been around since the time of tetris and the gameboy, but the prominence of casual games has increased as the amount of Wii shovelware has increased. And this is not a direct bashing of the Wii, it's my favorite console of this generation and when a game is good on the Wii (Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess) it outshines all the competition.
But I still consider those hardcore games. And the number of 'hardcore' games is by no means decreasing, the number of casual games is just increasing.
On a sidenote, I LOVE PEGGLE, and I'll use that as proof anyday that casual and hardcore games will always co-exist, with Hardcore gamers spewing hatred at casual gamers, and casual gamers not giving a shit because they're not hardcore about games
I'm pretty okay with Motion games, as long as it doesn't become the norm, I think it should stay as a seperate 'gimmic' that I can chose to avoid. I can't see myself have a 7 hour gaming sesh with a motion controler, I just don't want to swing my arms for that long.
I think the issue is more that there aren't any serious games for them, rather than being unable to play serious games with motion controls. It is possible that this might change with the "Move" and "Kinect" however so far the marketing for them has definatly not shown that.mrpmpfan said:
I think using the term "Hardcore" is wrong as it gives the wrong attitude. I think what it comes down to is the fact that most of the games produced for motion controls are very simplistic and typically very easy, and brightly colored. In many respects seeming like a child's toy. Something that kind of annoys a lot of gamers who have grown up trying to earn respect for gaming as something that is not just meant to entertain children, and then lo and behold, here we have this kind of thing heading out into the mainstream.
The general success of those same casual games, also seem to have halted development on a lot of more "serious" types of products. Anything that isn't very simple usually turns out to be a poorly designed slap-dash production. We generally speaking haven't seen any big time AAA type titles like RPGs or Survival Horror games developed for those controls. Even if attached to a franchise the results have by and large been cut rate, with the big gimmick being along the lines of "look, a non-kiddie seeming game for the Wii!!!!" rather than anything exceptional in it's own right.... the handfull of exceptions to the general rule I'm expressing are noteworthy, but as exceptions that very label prevents them from being part of a serious counter arguement.
I think "hardcore" simply means "good games that don't look like they could have been conceived by Fisher-Price" in the context of this type of arguement.
Casual games are currently the big thing for companies to sell since they're relatively new and thus the market is expanding rapidly. Soon enough, that market will slow down and the latest new gimmicks will find themselves without sales. The companies making them are just following the market and you can't blame them for that.
No, he's complaining about people complaining that games are too casual.Gabanuka said:
Back in the day,
Now..in order for a game to be "hardcore", it has to have...blood,online,HD,blood,guns,online,guns,online,mics for trash talking.
Motions Controls are consider to be "gimmicks" to "those" gamers and Sony and Microsoft said that they wouldn't do Motion controls. 4 years later..Look what they have. And a lot of game games on the Wii use the motion controls well. But most of the HD people never see that. Personally...I think HD is the biggest gimmick of all.
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What about that system? I love it. It has great games.Gabanuka said:
It will never stop sadly.Blackality said:
I think the time of games in which the character is like superman are becoming less popular with game developers. Now, developers are making more games that require more thinking and caution and less balls-to-the-wall flash.
So HARDCORE GAMERRRRRRRS can feel superior?
idgi, seriously. Why do people care so much? Why are "gimmicky" controllers that let (gasp) NON-GAMERS play such a bad thing? How is getting more people to play games somehow bad or wrong? If you don't want to play the games that come out for motion controllers, don't play them, but wailing about how old people, kids, and housewives are going to play our precious, precious video games is awfully sad.
idgi, seriously. Why do people care so much? Why are "gimmicky" controllers that let (gasp) NON-GAMERS play such a bad thing? How is getting more people to play games somehow bad or wrong? If you don't want to play the games that come out for motion controllers, don't play them, but wailing about how old people, kids, and housewives are going to play our precious, precious video games is awfully sad.
There seems to a misconception that casual games are cutting into the production of the so called "hard core" games. Casual games will never hurt hardcore game production or sales because the people who only buy casual games wouldn't have bought hardcore games and the hardcore gamers aren't going to pass up a quality hardcore game for casual shovel ware. The reason there aren't many hardcore games on the wii is because only the nintendo ones sell and the reason the hardcore game development is down, if at all, is because they are very expensive to make.
When "Gamers" started morphing from 6-12 year-olds that were socially awkward to 16-28 year-old idiots and sports junkies. Oh, and because people usually associate "Hardcore" with quality while they associate "Casual" with crap, even though both game types are equally bad as they are good.mrpmpfan said: