Why do developers miss the point of their own games?

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NickCaligo42

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This is something that's been on my mind for a while. It seems like every now and again a successful developer with a unique product COMPLETELY loses their mind and throws away what works about their game, sometimes mid-franchise. To give a few examples:

NOTICE -- PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: As I've stated in the body of this post, my intention isn't to argue about individual titles. Many of the changes below aren't that big of a deal to me, but I've noticed a general negative attitude towards them or following them, or else heard others complain in forums or in reviews about them. If you want to argue with me about these points, you're barking up the wrong tree because I have no argument to provide.

[ul]
[li]Resident Evil loses horror and adventure gaming elements in favor of increased generic action in RE5.[/li]
[li]Insomniac tries to drop the exploration and platforming elements to streamline R&C with "Ratchet: Deadlocked" to a third-person shooter with the R&C flavor. While still acknowledged as a good game with interesting features, it's generally considered to be "cut-rate" compared with the other games' content.[/li]
[li]X-COM, critically acclaimed turn-based strategy game/worldwide UFO defense grid simulator, commits suicide in the gaming marketplace by introducing X-COM: Enforcer, a shooter with none of the micromanagement/strategy elements that defined the original titles.[/li]
[li]Richard Garriott ditches the critical thinking and exploration-driven focus of Ultima VII, the most critically acclaimed game in his groundbreaking series, to create Ultima VIII and IX, a pair of derivative action-RPGs that try to be Diablo and Ultima and fail at both.[/li]
[/ul]


EDIT: REMOVED ONE BULLET from the list, realizing it was part of a more personal bias. Specifically:

Insomniac forgets that part of the appeal of Ratchet and Clank is that the two heroes are perpetual underdogs in their universe, transforming them from a sponge of a mechanic and the runt of the robot litter into the last member of a race of legendary warriors and the Master of All Time, respectively.

There's other, more recent examples I could bring up, but there's certain specters I don't want to raise with this discussion.

While not all of these are terrible disasters and your mileage may vary on any given change noted above, it's generally accepted that these series each lacked a certain thrill afterwards. Some of these did legitimately compromise their series into oblivion, killing the entire franchise as was the case with Ultima IX.

I'm not here to debate individual games and their disappointing paradigm shifts, though--the forums are rife with that already. The main issue I want to raise is: why does this happen? Or rather, why do you think this happens? Do developers get bored with their successful IPs? Do creative differences in team members lead to changes in direction? Or is there simply that much pressure to make money that they feel the need to imitate other successful products rather than emphasizing what makes their project special?
 

ProfessorLayton

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Well, for one thing they're trying to change it up a bit instead of keeping every single game the same. And there's also a little thing called money.

I don't really want to elaborate right now, unless someone wants me to. :3
 

NeutralDrow

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Because it works often enough to be worth a shot, and if they don't, people will still complain about a franchise being run into the ground by being the same game over and over.
 

Vek

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Video game producers. Very simple answer. Unless the creative director and/or game creator and/or lead developer are also the producers of the game, recovering the money spent in development is going to take precedence to maintaining series/franchise hallmarks.

Shifting units is always easier the larger the target audience is, which is the primary reason for many of those series huge gameplay shifts.
 

KalosCast

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Because emulating what's popular is a sound business strategy. In Resi's specific case, the horror and adventure-gaming element were the two most universally-derided aspects of the series. Though I'd say it became an "action game" at 4, not 5.
 

burningdragoon

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Fact for all things ever:

If you change it, people will complain.
If you keep it the same, people will complain.
 

Frylock72

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NeutralDrow said:
Because it works often enough to be worth a shot, and if they don't, people will still complain about a franchise being run into the ground by being the same game over and over.
And yet, the constant EA sports game reiterations. On topic, I don't know. I've fallen away from mainstream gaming, but I might be interested in the responses this thread generates.
 

mjc0961

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NickCaligo42 said:
[ul]
[li]Insomniac forgets that part of the charm of Ratchet and Clank is that the two heroes are the underdogs of whatever Galaxy they're in and transforms their lead characters--formerly a lowly sponge of a mechanic and the runt of the robot litter--into the last member of a legendary race of warriors and the Master of all Time, respectively.[/li]
[/ul]
This one sounds more to me like you missed the point of Insomniac's games to me.

What part of Ratchet receiving commando training and being backed by a weapons and armor manufacturer makes him an underdog and "lowly sponge of a mechanic" in Going Commando?
What part of Ratchet and Clank returning to the galaxy from the first game makes them an underdog of the galaxy they already saved once in Up Your Arsenal?
What part of Ratchet and Clank being well known heroes with great skill throughout the galaxies, which is what made them a target for Vox in the first place, makes them an underdog there? No, not the two announcers making fun of them all the time: they're just assholes.

No, you're just incorrectly applying the general feel of the first game to every game that was on the PS2. As for what happened in the PS3 games, it's called backstory. Okay, Clank's is rather weird and maybe just a tiny bit contradictory, but Ratchet's fits extremely well and makes sense of how a "lowly sponge of a mechanic" could rise to kick Drek's ass and become a hero in the first place.

Yeah, I don't see the problem with the Ratchet and Clank series that you're trying to say exists here at all. And regardless, it's Insomniac's game not yours. I think they get to decide what the point of their own games are in the first place. So to answer your latter questions, I think this "happens" because you're just making these points up and then claiming that the devs missed the point of their own games when they don't make something that fits this point that only exists in your head. Or at least why it "happened" to Insomniac.

burningdragoon said:
Fact for all things ever:

If you change it, people will complain.
If you keep it the same, people will complain.
Now this is a great point. Ultimately, devs should just do what they want to do with their games. Somebody is always going to complain. "Mario Sunshine sucks because they changed the gameplay too much with this water pack!" "Mario Galaxy 2 sucks because it's the exact same thing as Mario Galaxy 1!" Oh, and don't even get me started on the cycle of Zelda complaining.
 

TheTygerfire

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NickCaligo42 said:
This is something that's been on my mind for a while. It seems like every now and again a successful developer with a unique product COMPLETELY loses their mind and throws away what works about their game, sometimes mid-franchise. To give a few examples:


[li]Resident Evil loses horror and adventure gaming elements in favor of increased generic action in RE5.[/li]

The old RE formula was outdated and would have never survived had RE:4 not changed the series. RE:4 is also largely considered one of the best games ever made.

[li]Insomniac forgets that part of the charm of Ratchet and Clank is that the two heroes are the underdogs of whatever Galaxy they're in and transforms their lead characters--formerly a lowly sponge of a mechanic and the runt of the robot litter--into the last member of a legendary race of warriors and the Master of all Time, respectively.[/li]

That's called character development and building a lore. What are you complaining about?

[li]Years earlier still, Insomniac tries to drop the exploration and platforming elements to streamline R&C with "Ratchet: Deadlocked" to a third-person shooter with the R&C flavor. While still acknowledged as a good game with interesting features, it's generally considered to be "cut-rate" compared with the other games' content.[/li]

A spin off and a one off, I bet you're going to complain about Naughty Dog making a Jak racing game.

[li]X-COM, critically acclaimed turn-based strategy game/worldwide UFO defense grid simulator, commits suicide in the gaming marketplace by introducing X-COM: Enforcer, a shooter with none of the micromanagement/strategy elements that defined the original titles.[/li]

The new X-Com game isn't made by the same people IIRC, so why are you blaming the original devs?
You're very much complaining about nothing. Games change and evolve. Not every series can be a Koei franchise...
 

NickCaligo42

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mjc0961 said:
Uhh. I wasn't writing this as an indictment of Insomniac or the Ratchet and Clank series, I was just throwing out potential examples of why nobody seems all that excited to see a new R&C game these days. :\ Sorry if I offended you.

TheTygerfire said:
I'm not doing this to complain about individual games. If I wanted to complain about individual games, I have other games that I care much, much more about that I could rant on specifically. I chose these, however, because I felt that they would present a relatively neutral ground for discussion.

If you want to have an argument with me about these points not being valid, you're barking up the wrong tree because they aren't really mine. They're just opinions I've heard and seen presented in other forums and reviews and parts of trends I've noticed with respect to these series. If you're looking for me to substantiate this like an academic paper, well, I'm not going to, it's just a forum and I'm just curious to see what people think about this sort of thing.
 

Trolldor

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KalosCast said:
Because emulating what's popular is a sound business strategy. In Resi's specific case, the horror and adventure-gaming element were the two most universally-derided aspects of the series. Though I'd say it became an "action game" at 4, not 5.
I actually liked 5.
 

Trolldor

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TheTygerfire said:
NickCaligo42 said:
This is something that's been on my mind for a while. It seems like every now and again a successful developer with a unique product COMPLETELY loses their mind and throws away what works about their game, sometimes mid-franchise. To give a few examples:


[li]Resident Evil loses horror and adventure gaming elements in favor of increased generic action in RE5.[/li]

The old RE formula was outdated and would have never survived had RE:4 not changed the series. RE:4 is also largely considered one of the best games ever made.

[li]Insomniac forgets that part of the charm of Ratchet and Clank is that the two heroes are the underdogs of whatever Galaxy they're in and transforms their lead characters--formerly a lowly sponge of a mechanic and the runt of the robot litter--into the last member of a legendary race of warriors and the Master of all Time, respectively.[/li]

That's called character development and building a lore. What are you complaining about?

[li]Years earlier still, Insomniac tries to drop the exploration and platforming elements to streamline R&C with "Ratchet: Deadlocked" to a third-person shooter with the R&C flavor. While still acknowledged as a good game with interesting features, it's generally considered to be "cut-rate" compared with the other games' content.[/li]

A spin off and a one off, I bet you're going to complain about Naughty Dog making a Jak racing game.

[li]X-COM, critically acclaimed turn-based strategy game/worldwide UFO defense grid simulator, commits suicide in the gaming marketplace by introducing X-COM: Enforcer, a shooter with none of the micromanagement/strategy elements that defined the original titles.[/li]

The new X-Com game isn't made by the same people IIRC, so why are you blaming the original devs?
You're very much complaining about nothing. Games change and evolve. Not every series can be a Koei franchise...
Hey! Dynasty Warriors changes!

In 6 I could swim.
 

StriderShinryu

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Well, it is the developers choice and they don't really owe it to anyone to keep their creations exactly the same from game to game. We are their fans, yes, but we're fans of games that ultimately belong to them. I know if I was a game developer and I saw a new game or new mechanic out there that excited me I'd definitely want to try it out in my next title.

You don't change, you end up like Nintendo where you put the same games with new coats of paint every few years for decades on end. You do change, you get hated on for trying something different (and, certainly, not always succeeding). It's a lose/lose situation, except in the eyes of the developer themselves.
 

dolgion

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"Or is there simply that much pressure to make money that they feel the need to imitate other successful products rather than emphasizing what makes their project special?"

This pretty much. I'm pretty sure if the primary goal wasn't to make money but to make the games they want, developers would be making much more diverse and interesting games. As it is, everything is just becoming more "accessible", by cutting everything special about a type of game and turning it into a hacknslash or a shmup. Which is sad. But people vote with their money, and the majority of it goes to CoD and similar titles.
 

dolgion

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burningdragoon said:
Fact for all things ever:

If you change it, people will complain.
If you keep it the same, people will complain.
The key is to introduce change that makes sense for the game. Change just for change's sake or just for tapping into a bigger demographic is bad, most of the time.
 

dolgion

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StriderShinryu said:
Well, it is the developers choice and they don't really owe it to anyone to keep their creations exactly the same from game to game. We are their fans, yes, but we're fans of games that ultimately belong to them. I know if I was a game developer and I saw a new game or new mechanic out there that excited me I'd definitely want to try it out in my next title.

You don't change, you end up like Nintendo where you put the same games with new coats of paint every few years for decades on end. You do change, you get hated on for trying something different (and, certainly, not always succeeding). It's a lose/lose situation, except in the eyes of the developer themselves.
No, in many cases developers do owe to their audience. After all, their money is what keeps them in business, so in most cases, I'd say a reiteration of a game should be made for the fans. If a developer wants to try out a new type of game, or new mechanic/feature, it should be considered carefully for an existing franchise. Will it change the nature of the game too much for their fans? For example, it'd be absurd if the next CoD became a platformer, right? So if it would be fun to try out to put in a game, but doesn't work for a franchise, it should be used in a new franchise. Simple. As. That.
 

Frotality

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publishers, of course. if a game is popular enough, publishers will "try" to capitalize on it by insisting upon a sequel that is more "accessible", very often alienating their own fans for a wider demographic. sadly, this has been quite successful in modern times.

with something like ultima though, its also very likely that the developer just gets bored with how similar each game is, regardless of what the fanbase thinks, and tries something ambitious in the sequel that just doesnt pan out.

i would also just like to state that RE4 is probably a rare exception; no other game series has done so drastic a shift and have it be successful AND often considered better than any of the original games. its a VERY rare instance where the developer actually managed to innovate the series instead of arbitrarily changing things because their bored or because it doesnt suit the young middle class male demographic.
 

NickCaligo42

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StriderShinryu said:
Well, it is the developers choice and they don't really owe it to anyone to keep their creations exactly the same from game to game. We are their fans, yes, but we're fans of games that ultimately belong to them. I know if I was a game developer and I saw a new game or new mechanic out there that excited me I'd definitely want to try it out in my next title.

You don't change, you end up like Nintendo where you put the same games with new coats of paint every few years for decades on end. You do change, you get hated on for trying something different (and, certainly, not always succeeding). It's a lose/lose situation, except in the eyes of the developer themselves.
This isn't about change, though. Change is a good thing, much of the time. Call of Duty found a stronger sense of focus with its fourth installment. Mass Effect 2 shed wasteful mechanics and made what's left more interesting to play with. Ultima grew more sophisticated with every iteration until VIII and IX, the latter of which is almost universally derided. What I'm talking about isn't change or evolution, what I'm talking about is when a company very clearly compromises core values in a product.