Why do Homosexuals even care about Christian discrimination?

[robolint]

For those who'd like to put out that being gays is as natural as heterosexual men appreciating woman, just let me say this; just because men are made to be sexually drawn to women, we have the choice to either pursue extramarital relations or not.

Just because we have the choice to persue a relationship with someone doesn't mean we CHOOSE to be atracted to them. Homosexuals may CHOOSE to persue a relationship but that doesn't mean they CHOOSE to be atracted to the same sex.

 

[DrunkWithPower]

Christians hate cultural movments? My only other option is because they love to hate things that are different and not manly?

 

[Epitome]

This one actually confuses me, now I am a Catholic, an Irish one at that, so Catholithism is still very big here. Now thats out of the way, while i may not agree with the churchs beliefs on homosexuality I must respect their right to have them. The church does not have to change its ways after so many years to accomodate anybody. They do not discrminate against gays because their institution and facilities such as marrige are not for gays. Now I am entirely in favour of a civil partnership in law that provides all the EXACT same tax/legal/rights that married couples have. But to tell the church they have to marry homosexuals is like telling muslims they have to let people draw mohammed, its just not in their system to allow it, and if you dont like it that much dont support the catholic church? The church is entirely dependant on its congregation for support, if the congregation dont like the doctrine they will leave and the institution will die?

 

[Woodsey]

The biggest problem I have with the marriage thing is that I know that, should it be passed in law, the homosexual community can and will force every church to hold marriages for them. Why should Christian churches be forced to give marriages for a group of people who violate one of their biggest tenements?

Yeah. I also heard that if Obama reforms healthcare he'll create concentration camps all over the country to round up and exterminate the republicans.

Haha.

To Mathak, why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry? They shouldn't need to f*cking force the churches to "let" them - they're just as entitled as anybody else.

And considering that the bible is so contradictory I think it's pretty hard to say no to them when there's an equal amount of times when the bible says everyone is equal, (blah blah blah).

I gather from your reply that you're Christian? Sorry if I'm mistaken, but if you are, it just seems like you and the many other homophobes within Christianity just use the bible as a veil to hide behind.

And finally to the OP, whilst I'm inclined to agree with you, although I felt there was something you missed: surely Christians (I'm not religious in any way by the way) should pledge themselves to God, not the numerous homophobes, racists, paedos and what not that seem to crop up so much in the, "higher echelons" shall we say of the faith? In which case it makes sense that a gay person would want to be married in a church if they believe in God.

Only in religion do you find people still clinging to "rules" written thousands of years ago, which are only applicable today because they're so broadly written. It's strange how all these divine events happen at least 2000 years or so ago, isn't it? And yet today, when faith seems to be dwindling so much, there's no divine sign from the sky above.

All in all I'd do the same as the OP if I were gay, go with a group of people who can appreciate others who are different instead of pretend to then and hide behind a mountain of shit to hide there true colours.

 

[manicfoot]

What if someone was raised as a strict christian and then found out he was a homosexual when he hit puberty? He'd be excluded from something that's a very large part of his life. I'd liken this to the way black people were treated in the 50's. "Sure, you can drink water. Just not from OUR fountain" "Sure, you guys can get married. It just can't be called a marriage"

 

[Woodsey]

The biggest problem I have with the marriage thing is that I know that, should it be passed in law, the homosexual community can and will force every church to hold marriages for them. Why should Christian churches be forced to give marriages for a group of people who violate one of their biggest tenements?

Yeah. I also heard that if Obama reforms healthcare he'll create concentration camps all over the country to round up and exterminate the republicans.

Haha.

To Mathak, why shouldn't gays be allowed to marry? They shouldn't need to f*cking force the churches to "let" them - they're just as entitled as anybody else.

And considering that the bible is so contradictory I think it's pretty hard to say no to them when there's an equal amount of times when the bible says everyone is equal, (blah blah blah).

I gather from your reply that you're Christian? Sorry if I'm mistaken, but if you are, it just seems like you and the many other homophobes within Christianity just use the bible as a veil to hide behind.

And finally to the OP, whilst I'm inclined to agree with you, although I felt there was something you missed: surely Christians (I'm not religious in any way by the way) should pledge themselves to God, not the numerous homophobes, racists, paedos and what not that seem to crop up so much in the, "higher echelons" shall we say of the faith? In which case it makes sense that a gay person would want to be married in a church if they believe in God.

Only in religion do you find people still clinging to "rules" written thousands of years ago, which are only applicable today because they're so broadly written. It's strange how all these divine events happen at least 2000 years or so ago, isn't it? And yet today, when faith seems to be dwindling so much, there's no divine sign from the sky above.

All in all I'd do the same as the OP if I were gay: go with a group of people who can appreciate others who are different, instead of go to those who pretend to care but then hide behind a mountain of shit to hide their true, homophobic colours.

 

[robolint]

The only thing I will say about marriage when it comes to religion is this. A church that has the morals of a society based hundreds to thousands of years ago has no place in todays society.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Ok, let's get something out of the way, I'm not some religious Zealot preaching about why discrimination is justified, and I'm sure we can all agree that it's immoral and ignorant.

Now, that being said, it's always perplexed me when gays complain about "Not being able to get married" or "being banned from the church" and things of that nature. Why do they even care? If I where gay I would want no part of an organization that hates me. I mean, this is a religion that says they're going to hell for having a genetic/uncontrollable mental difference from other people. That doesn't put up a red flag? Even if they where Christian, then they would believe that no matter what they're going to hell anyways, so I don't see why they would want to waste their time and money at a church full of pissed off homophobes when they could be out enjoying their lives with people who accept them.

Am I missing something?

Well you are missing the complete and utter lack of truth in your stereotypical and ignorant ideas of Christianity, for one... I don't mean to insult you, as this is unfortunately rather common, but it's rather obvious that your ideas of Christianity come from popular opinion rather than actual knowledge. And unfortunately, the popular opinion of Christianity is simply a collection of stereotypes twisted to make it look bad in a society that will do anything to distance itself from spiritual ideas.

First of all, Christians don't hate gay people: it's time people understood that simple fact. Christians don't agree with their way of life, but they don't hate them. If a Christian actually hates anyone, anyone at all, they are not acting like they should according to the Bible. Christians are not homophobes, they are simply people who see homosexuality as a twisting of an original and perfect design (the idea does make sense in the context of the beliefs of Christianity): but those who practice it are still human, and thus, according to the Bible, should be loved.

King James Version
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Is a quote from your foundational text 'popular opinion' rather than knowledge? Is it a collection of stereotypes? Did the supposed Word of God need such a drastic reversal? It went from executing homosexuals for a few millennia to loving them in the next two. 'Mysterious' doesn't even begin to describe it. Can you really blame this perception on the public? Read the damned book.

Second of all, the idea that homosexuality is "a genetic/uncontrollable mental difference from other people" is not at all accurate. The "gay gene" is a desperate lie concocted by people who wanted to justify their behavior, and that's all. They took what little biological facts they could twist to support the idea and they're been claiming they're close to finding real evidence ever since. So far, they haven't. I'm pretty sure the only biological conditions that strictly affect behavior are mental disorders. And I don't think anyone thinks of homosexuality as a disorder.

1) Homosexuality has appeared in various forms in the DSM, a widely recognized source for psychiatrists about mental disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association. It has since been removed as a disorder, but your comment is far from accurate even within the discipline of psychiatry. It took political action from homosexuals themselves, in fact, for the APA to remove it.

2) Mental disorders are certainly not the only things that can strictly affect behavior. For a behavior to be diagnosed as a psychological disorder, psychiatrists generally agree that it must be atypical, maladaptive, unjustifiable, and disturbing. Not 'or', and. I think it will suffice to note just how narrow are those criteria.

3) There are biological, physical origins to our behavior. Behavior is made possible in the first place by genes, it is directed by an organ created by genes, and that organ interacts with the world in ways defined by genes. Genes have an input into all behavior. They are not the only thing that determines behavior, but they are an integral part of all behavior. When a person reacts to the world around him, he does so with structures created by the operation of genes. Your entire being is a product of genes, of course they have a deep effect on behavior.

4) Question: would not having your left leg affect your behavior? Of course it would. That's not a mental disorder. When you feel lust for a woman, is that a choice or a natural reaction? You must agree that the lust is natural while satiating it would be a choice. Your sin is that you think you have the right to expect a man to forgo all enjoyable sex in his life in order to please your God. It's utterly monstrous!

All that to say, I see what you're saying, but try to make your point more researched and less of an anti-religion rant. Christianity is much more and much different than most people make it out to be.

Yes, Christianity looks especially good when you selectively read the Bible. Although I guess when you don't it looks hopelessly contradictory. But that's what human judgment is for! Say, what do you really need the book for anyway, if you have that on your side?

 

[Venatio]

The reasons gays dislike Chrtistian discrimination is the same reason they hate Jewish and Islamic discimination, under such views they have been persecuted, assualted, and even tortured for thousands of years. A man in Wyoming in 1998, a colledge student, was assualted, beaten, and left hanging from a fence to die all because he was gay. What Christianity does, or helps to do, is sanction these depraved crimes. Just because the Bible talks about Adam and Eve and even quotes a section stating hatred against gays (right above hatred for shellfish) a great amount of people are brought up to hate gays.

In my opinion, all gays should be armed with a gun to protect themselves with. Theres even an orginization dedicated to said task, The Pink Pistol, thats was on tv the other day.

 

[Osloq]

Well to be fair I think they are upset because maybe by right they have chosen to believe in whatever religion of their fancy and it seems kind of cruel to be thrown out for things that are not their choice.. no one chooses what they find attractive. I didn't choose to find red heads sexy that's just who I am. So to discriminate people for things they do not have control over and for suggesting that they are inferior and indeed 'sinners' because of it.... I can see why the homosexuals would be mad. I would like to note though that in no way do all homosexuals think about this stuff, I mean one of my closest friends is a lesbian and she once said she couldn't care less about getting married. So it's not really all of them, but sometimes religion based discrimination effects different people. And so a lebsian in Perth city, Australia can just go about unfussed because religion really isn't a big deal over here (the only important things in Perth city are construction cranes) but over in the heartlands of Texas a homosexual has to put up with constant insults and discrimination. Often based on people trying to change them so by right they have every reason to respond in anger. Because homosexuality is not a defining aspect of their personality and in general they are people like anyone else and merely want to be treated equally and it is hard to do in places where religion is a major force of prejudice. There are still areas where violent hate crimes and even killings of gay men and lesbians occurs and their deaths are for no better reason other than the fact that they are gay.
It goes without saying that this world still has a lot of quick judgements about people and very unfair judgements. So therefore people can't relax while being constantly judged by large groups of people. I mean some people can ignore the big mean bully on the playground and others can't.... it's all about being human.

Your love for redheads disgusts me, you're banned from the church of Os forever. (Just kidding, the first girl I ever kissed was a fiery redhead so they have a special place in my heart)

Offtopic still: I can definitely understand some people's comments in regards to people forcing their sexuality on to you, regardless of the circumstance. A fair few of the homosexual people I know do it involuntarily, some on purpose, but the majority do not. Remember it's generally the worst of the group that float to the top and that appear on the news/in the media, and that's true of every category of people. This then means young men and women, who think they are by themselves in their feelings, look to these people and start to copy their mannerisms because a lot of them think that's how they're supposed to act. It takes a rare person who can grow up with completely different feelings to everyone or most of those around them and develop a personality that doesn't fit with the stereotype they're shown on TV, the internet, wherever.

OT finally: I think if you've been raised as a Christian or if the Christian religion appeals to you, you should be allowed to get married. Being different from your family and friends can be pretty daunting. Any similarities can be reassuring that you're not a total "freak" or whatever derogatory term is used. Do I think they'll get Church weddings? No. Do I think the government should force the Church to allow it? No. There's supposed to be a separation between church and state so it's up to clerical law to decide whether gay marriage should be allowed. Civil unions between gays should be universally legal because it's a freedom that should be granted to everyone.

 

[UberMore]

Wow, I know I'm new here but holy fuck my opinion of the Escapist community just plummeted.

We're not all like this, don't right us off too soon.

I think it's more the fact that they're being discriminated against then the fact that a religion is doing it.

 

[crypt-creature]

Because they are just whining douchebags who want to force their bullshit down everyones throat.

And certain religions aren't doing the same thing to specific people based on things those people can't control?
Neither side is helping the situation.

On the issue of the marriage title, honestly the title isn't even about the religious implications anymore. Many straight couples get 'married' and do not get a civil union, even if they don't believe in a religion. It's almost a status symbol. In some ways having the 'civil union' title makes other people look down upon a couple or make them seem 'inferior' to those that are married.
It will more than likely just become another way/reason for people to discriminate.

 

[Arassar]

Why do gay people care about Christian discrimination? Answer: they don't. What they do care about is Christians getting their religion mixed up in creating LAWS which expressly discriminate against gays. There are some crazy people out there, like the Westboro Baptist wackos, who spew the most hateful things I've ever heard while holding up the "religion" umbrella. Granted, most people who use that umbrella are not nearly so bad. However, if you think that only making laws - laws that confine homosexuals to a lower rung of society than all the "normal" folk - is any better than the insane hate-speech spouted by those vocal minority, then you're kidding yourself.

They don't need churches. They have their own churches. Gay folk would be perfectly happy to never set foot in one of those places again. However, when the lawmakers and lobbyists drag their church out and put it into the government, then I guess somebody has to fight back.

 

[Cavouku]

Again (after reading little else than the OP) I feel the need to drag up the resolution between Bible V. Gays. I forget the website, but you can probably Google the Bible and Gays and you'll find that with some loopholing on some parts, and just plain common sense on others, the Bible isn't against Gays (If I remember, one place even said "pro gay").

They want to feel included in the religion, not by the raging homophobes.

People cry on about Leviticus; If they're Christian the Old Testament holds little value. Also, I don't see hem sending their wife to the woods during their period.

 

[Suikun]

Snip

Well, being a gay guy myself and hearing things like what you wrote, Avykins, at least a thousand times a day, I can say easily that you have a point, but you don't have to be that much of a douchbag in getting your point across. That's all I'm going to say on that matter, because starting a flame war over, "Oh, this guy was so impolite, I'm going to freak out and start bitching and moaning about it!" is retarded regardless of who/what/where/when/why/how things transpired.

Getting to the point: yeah, I don't get it either. The Christian/Catholic/[insert big-name church here] sects of religion tend to have so much bigotry and hypocrisy in them that it baffles me how people still believe in that kind of shit. I've got theories about parents beating their children to make them believe, but I'm sure that that's not true in every case. (I'm being sarcastic, for those of you who can't tell)

Personally I think organized religion as a whole is full of idiots trying to extort people's beliefs to manipulate them, and fags just seem to be at the top of the list for hating nowadays. People probably care, still, because (in this case) Christians tend to have a lot of power in Capital Hill, and if they start passing bullshit laws that make our lives hell just because they think that somehow, some way it's going to make their own christian e-peen get bigger and they'll score points with God. Personally, I don't give a shit if a bunch of old farts hate me for what I happen to be. That's life, someone's going to hate you for what you are, no matter who you are. You deal with it.

Why do gays want to be accepted? Because everyone wants to be accepted. Hell, I'm sure that if they wouldn't get lynched for it, other minorities probably would have lobbied in the KKK to get acceptance there, too, because there's something about exclusivity that is awesome. And besides, the whole "wanting to make sure your arse is protected from dumbasses" works in pretty well.

I'm sure that if Christianity didn't have so much power, a lot of people wouldn't care nearly as much about acceptance of sexuality in places. It's nothing about shoving acceptance down people's throats, it's the fact that hate tends to spawn bigotry, and bigotry tries to justify crimes. Bigotry sometimes leads to laws that free folks from crimes at times (see Salem), and that's just all around unpleasant.

Personally, I don't care until they start fucking with laws again or I'm being cornered in an alley because people are convinced that beating the shit out of some fag is going to get them into Heaven. Until then, fuck the bigots and let them brood about how we're causing world suffering just by existing. If nothing else, it's good fun to laugh at them and their idiocy.

 

[Hollock]

1. the get married for the same reason as heterosexual people, why do heterosexuals get married it's a waste of money, divorce, feeling trapped. 2. there are also alot of advantages they cant take advantage of at least in the american govenment because they're not married. And if it werent for christian discriminating then they would have alot more freedom, and it probably wouldnt be so taboo.

 

[Baggie]

Most of them don't care or take offense at people that say what they're doing is a sin against god. But there's always a few that want it to be a problem for people.

Thing is, people always think that Christians are always black and white, one set of rules and beliefs for the entire lot. A bit set of IF THEN statements. But people do the exact same to Christians in return.
I myself have had more than one occasion where people have been up in my face because they think they know my exact set of beliefs from one term, if I can be bothered it takes a while to make them STFU. I don't hate you because you're gay, I NOW hate you because you just spent ten minutes yelling at me you ignorant bastard/*****.

Personally I figure if god made everyone, why would he hate people that are gay?