Why do many MMOs have a faction system?

[endtherapture]

We've seen it in many modern MMOs have a faction system where you chose between 2 factions, one good and one evil?

Warhammer Online has it, The Old Republic has it, WoW has it, so do many more. Faction systems are cool yeah, but it's kind of refreshing and less interaction-breaking when everyone is on the same side, with just a few racial tensions going on, such as in Guild Wars 2.

 

[Alfador_VII]

The short answer is PvP.

Actually that's pretty much the long answer too.

It doesn't even need to be good vs evil, they just want a red vs blue setup to hang their large scale PvP, and world events on.

I'd like to see more games go down the route of not having that sort of setup, ideally a more PvE-oriented game. That's really why I've never been interested in Guild Wars, as it's almost entirely PvP focussed.

 

[CloudAtlas]

The short answer is PvP.

Exactly. I guess the original intention was to create a persistent world with open world PvP, where you can face enemies anywhere in the gameworld, organize raids at enemy settlements etc - if you want, a World of War...craft. All of that sounds cool, but is hard to balance. What if one faction has substantially more players than the other on one server, for instance? And, of course, because many gamers are dicks who find nothing more exhilarating than making life miserable for others, such an open-world faction system is bound to lead to a lot of grief.
That's the reason, or at least one of the reasons, why some never games, like Guild Wars 2, opt for different systems.

 

[scotth266]

I actually don't regard WoW's faction system as good vs evil: both sides are just sort of trying to make it in the world, and come into conflict over stuff like natural resources and old grudges. The Alliance-Horde conflict plays out more like real-world politics than anything else, especially with some of the content I'm told was added in Cataclysm and Pandaria (regarding how the leader of the Horde's warmongering is causing the other Horde bigwigs to plot against him.)

Tera is another good RPG with the kind of aesthetic you like: everyone's on the same side, and the easy way to PVP is to become an outlaw, which basically puts a huge target on your back.

 

[Tragedy's Rebellion]

Yeah, pretty much PvP. It makes much more sense to have two factions than one like in GW1 and 2 where it's just nonsensical to fight each other (except Luxon vs Kurzick, but that's besides the point).

 

[shrekfan246]

Shoot, everyone ninja'd my answer. Here's a cat with mad skillz instead:

To be fair to WoW and TOR though, it's not like their respective universes didn't already build up the separate factions before the MMOs became popular. Warcraft was always very much "Orcs vs. Humans" (just look at the title of the first game) and Star Wars has always been stuck very ardently in "Sith vs. Jedi", even to its own detriment in some cases...

 

[krazykidd]

I actually don't regard WoW's faction system as good vs evil: both sides are just sort of trying to make it in the world, and come into conflict over stuff like natural resources and old grudges. The Alliance-Horde conflict plays out more like real-world politics than anything else, especially with some of the content I'm told was added in Cataclysm and Pandaria (regarding how the leader of the Horde's warmongering is causing the other Horde bigwigs to plot against him.)

Tera is another good RPG with the kind of aesthetic you like: everyone's on the same side, and the easy way to PVP is to become an outlaw, which basically puts a huge target on your back.

If you aren't playing horde you're doing it wrong [small] joke [/small]
The alliance comes off as racist pricks a lot of the time .

OT: PvP and replay value . Although a lot of people stick to the same faction .

 

[Auron]

The alliance comes off as racist pricks a lot of the time .

So does the horde, a lot of the hatred stems from Warcraft 1 and 2 when the orcs came out of nowhere and started murdering everyone and then were defeated and locked up in wc2. It's not exactly right to say the Alliance's wrong and that's it.


OT - Every MMO is a WoW copy nowadays that's why. The first to do it signifcantly far as I remember was Dark Age of Camelot, which had 3 factions fighting in the pvp areas it was fun and had great balance due to the 3 faction system one rarely dominated. Over time factionless MMO's like Ultima were forgotten in part due to the cutthroat nature and now few people who weren't playing at the time even know it existed.

Darkfall unholy wars is looking pretty good and you can kill anyone you want in it I might buy it sometime soon, kinda fearful on a blind purchase with no trial though.

 

[Lunar Templar]

cause WoW did it, that's why.

And that's really the only reason to, it COULD breed replyablity but most people pick a side and stay there due to class or race restrictions, so that ends up being moot. Not needed at all for PvP cause ya don't need a rival faction for that, just two people that think they're better then every one else is enough.

so yeah, its a case of 'WoW did it so now we have to cause it worked for them'

 

[Diddy_Mao]

As some have said, it helps build up a viable PVP experience that can be put into play in the open game world or in battlegrounds.

Otherwise you get weird attempts to rationalize the PVP content like in Champions online where it was all explained away as the Superhero olympics.

Outside of PVP it also allows for a certain degree of similarity in the people you play with. Which might sound a bit elitist...but it is what it is and in the end a tried and true Horde player isn't going to enjoy the Alliance experience quite as much.
(As evidenced by my small army of forgotten lvl 20 alliance toons.)

Lastly it gives people a team to root for. Which does add an element of playability outside the core mechanics.
I may not need the bonus supplied by owning the open world pvp objectives...but I don't want any Alliance players to get it.

 

[Eddie the head]

Lastly it gives people a team to root for. Which does add an element of playability outside the core mechanics.
I may not need the bonus supplied by owning the open world pvp objectives...but I don't want any Alliance players to get it.

I never got that. When I would play WoW I would go out of my way to help Horde players that might need it. If they wanted to pvp I would do it, but I wasn't going to be annoying about it. If they where being overrun by npc's I would charge in and take all the agro so they didn't die, you know things like that. I don't know it just seam silly to me to be that petty.

 

[MorganL4]

The alliance comes off as racist pricks a lot of the time .

So does the horde, a lot of the hatred stems from Warcraft 1 and 2 when the orcs came out of nowhere and started murdering everyone and then were defeated and locked up in wc2. It's not exactly right to say the Alliance's wrong and that's it.

In WC 1 & 2 The orcs were under the control of demons. If the humans fell under the same influence they too would be rampaging lunatics. Once they got free of the demonic powers, they left the FREAKING continent in an attempt to demonstrate a desire for non-aggression. So, yeah, the orcs have done a whole lot to try and separate themselves from the demonic influence that once ruled them.... The closest we could come in the real world, would be still hating Germany for letting Hitler take over... But most people are pretty cool with Germany nowadays....Good beer. So yeah, Alliance do come off as racist pricks a lot of the time... Keep in mind, the Horde didn't create Goldshire.... That was Alliance.


OT: I think a lot of MMOs are getting away from the faction system, the new game Neverwinter doesn't have one, TESO is going to have one, but they are opting for a three faction system instead of the standard Red vs Blue.... So I do think we are starting to see a divergence from the standard archetype.

Side note: WTF.... Why does my browser recognize "funner" as a word ( the correct phrase is "more fun") but doesn't recognize "orc" as a word?

 

[Eddie the head]

The alliance comes off as racist pricks a lot of the time .

So does the horde, a lot of the hatred stems from Warcraft 1 and 2 when the orcs came out of nowhere and started murdering everyone and then were defeated and locked up in wc2. It's not exactly right to say the Alliance's wrong and that's it.

In WC 1 & 2 The orcs were under the control of demons. If the humans fell under the same influence they too would be rampaging rampaging lunatics. Once they got free of the demonic powers, they left the FREAKING continent in an attempt to demonstrate a desire for non-aggression. So, yeah, the orcs have done a whole lot to try and separate themselves from the demonic influence that once ruled them.... The closest we could come in the real world, would be still hating Germany for letting Hitler take over... But most people are pretty cool with Germany nowadays....Good beer. So yeah, Alliance do come off as racist pricks a lot of the time... Keep in mind, the Horde didn't create Goldshire.... That was Alliance.

Didn't most of that happen like 3 years ago in the timeline? Yeah 3 years still not liking Germany after WW2 seams like a completely normal emotional response. There needs to at lest be a generation before you can start calling them "raciest pricks." It's like you punch me in the face and then 5 min later you say "I'm not like that anymore." I'm going to need a little more then your word. Just saying, people acting like people is hardly them being "evil."

 

[Atmos Duality]

The short answer is PvP.

And that's a /thread right there.

But for the sake of discussion..

PvP keeps the game "interesting"; though this is just code for "full of griefing fuckheads", and thus provides further incentive for players to level up and thus grind. Competition and action. If that's your cup of tea, great. I hate it, mostly because it hasn't been so much "exhilarating" or "interesting" as it has been irritating and annoying (whether I was on the giving or receiving end).

(Also I've played an MMO where it was literally possible to lock new players out of progression entirely by repeatedly PKing them and by stacking faction populations. So I've seen the best and worst parts of open faction PvP)

 

[Diddy_Mao]

Lastly it gives people a team to root for. Which does add an element of playability outside the core mechanics.
I may not need the bonus supplied by owning the open world pvp objectives...but I don't want any Alliance players to get it.

I never got that. When I would play WoW I would go out of my way to help Horde players that might need it. If they wanted to pvp I would do it, but I wasn't going to be annoying about it. If they where being overrun by npc's I would charge in and take all the agro so they didn't die, you know things like that. I don't know it just seam silly to me to be that petty.

That's a fair point but what we're talking about are two different cross faction interactions.

A lone Night Elf druid being assaulted by a pack of Tigers in the Krasarang Wilds is not invading Horde territory, probably isn't actively competing for the same resources and objectives that I am and hasn't done anything to invoke competition. In that case it's just another player and myself and there's no harm in helping them out. Something I'm more than happy to do.

However, speaking to my original point is that the faction system allows for open world PVP objectives that give active bonuses (more XP, faster run time, Stamina bonus etc) to the faction that controls specific resources. So that means that even if I'm not in need of that bonus I'll still try to help the Horde take control of these objectives away from the Alliance because I still want my side to win and I want my team mates to have those bonuses.

 

[MorganL4]

The alliance comes off as racist pricks a lot of the time .

So does the horde, a lot of the hatred stems from Warcraft 1 and 2 when the orcs came out of nowhere and started murdering everyone and then were defeated and locked up in wc2. It's not exactly right to say the Alliance's wrong and that's it.

In WC 1 & 2 The orcs were under the control of demons. If the humans fell under the same influence they too would be rampaging rampaging lunatics. Once they got free of the demonic powers, they left the FREAKING continent in an attempt to demonstrate a desire for non-aggression. So, yeah, the orcs have done a whole lot to try and separate themselves from the demonic influence that once ruled them.... The closest we could come in the real world, would be still hating Germany for letting Hitler take over... But most people are pretty cool with Germany nowadays....Good beer. So yeah, Alliance do come off as racist pricks a lot of the time... Keep in mind, the Horde didn't create Goldshire.... That was Alliance.

Didn't most of that happen like 3 years ago in the timeline? Yeah 3 years still not liking Germany after WW2 seams like a completely normal emotional response. There needs to at lest be a generation before you can start calling them "raciest pricks." It's like you punch me in the face and then 5 min later you say "I'm not like that anymore." I'm going to need a little more then your word. Just saying, people acting like people is hardly them being "evil."

The closest thing I could find to an actual timeline said that WC2 Ended in year 8 WC3 Started in year 25 Modern WoW is existing in year 39, So yeah, at that point it is sour grapes...

http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_%28unofficial%29

 

[generals3]

The short answer is PvP.

Actually that's pretty much the long answer too.

It doesn't even need to be good vs evil, they just want a red vs blue setup to hang their large scale PvP, and world events on.

I'd like to see more games go down the route of not having that sort of setup, ideally a more PvE-oriented game. That's really why I've never been interested in Guild Wars, as it's almost entirely PvP focussed.

But you don't need such a faction system for PVP. Take EVE online, you don't have factions in the traditional sense (unless you join Factional Warfare) and yet there is plenty of PeeVeePee. I think the typical faction system is just a symptom of laziness. It's the easiest way to implement PeeVeePee in the games.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Shoot, everyone ninja'd my answer. Here's a cat with mad skillz instead:

That cat has got mad skills.

Oddly the one MMO I do know of that doesn't have factions is Runescape, and it's PvP was always a tonne of fun, because if your party of friends couldn't find enough action in the PvP area you always ended up ganking each other for the sake of it. In fact even when there were loads of other people to fight you always ended up backstabbing your friends mid fight. That PvP was just pure chaos, and that made it kind of awesome.

 

[Farotsu]

There is a lot more to it than just "WoW did it" or "PvP". The idea is to give the players different kinds of encouragement for doing quests and participating in the world. Belonging to a faction can be a really strong incentive for Roleplaying, PvP or even PvE questing and allows the player to feel like they are a part of something bigger or feel a connection to other players, giving the game more soul.

For me MMO's have had a hard time making me feel immersed in them. Way too often they feel like Massively Singleplayer games but when you add things like factions in to the mix, especially well done ones that you can contribute to and connect to other people with "Lets go kill some Alliance scum!", it feels a lot more of an experience that wants to give me a good time rather than making me to wade through the early missions alone until I get to the juicy endgame content... If there is any.

 

[Aramis Night]

My only problem with the faction system is they usually settle on too few. Only 2 faction pvp is terrible. Eventually you get server population imbalance and one side totally dominates the other and then the minority side tends to avoid pvp since they have no real chance to win and the majority side gets bored since the other side won't really participate. My first mmo had 4 factions and didn't have that problem. 3 factions should always be the absolute minimum.