Why do people care so much about storylines?

[ironmace2.0]

Because the modern gamer needs a reason to play a motive to wish to win and find the conclusion of the story and because if we have no story all we do is press buttons....that sounds loads of fun! And because people who play games are smart so they like to be moraly challenged, and I guess that you dont like Heavy Rain?

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

but only a good FEW are non-linear enough let you "role-play" WHAT-SO-EVER

thats the way i like it... by a hell of a lot... I mean, if the game has multiple possible storylines then how am I supposed to figure out which one is both best and canon?

*facepalm* im not referiing to branching paths you doof! im refering to making the the character YOU.

survival crisis z is an RPG done right imo.

-you can do whatever you want, continue the plot or fuck around.

-and by fuck around i mean "loot houses" or "torture people" or *long list of useful but less entertaining shit*

-"meh" protagonist. EASIEST to make YOU

-one plot. i HATE braching paths.

-factions. take a guess.

- no multiplayer. personal plus.

note how roleplaying by no means = branching paths.

also, if there isnt a sequal, and branches are canon

The problem with the model you're describing is that it demands a lot of work from the player. Which is to say, you're praising a game for a story that you yourself have written. This cannot be done.

It strikes me as lazy when a game like, say, Oblivion purports to have a sweeping story that the player can customize, when in reality it has One Epic World Saving story, and then just a bunch of STUFF for you to do. Not to say that's bad, I LOVE doing stuff, and I love , but I wouldn't say that Oblivion is anything more or less than an amazing character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one.

But I don't play video games to look at myself in the mirror, thank you very much. I have a pretty boring life which is part of the reason I play videogames.

I had to fill in QUITE a few of the blanks in inFAMOUS before I could really get behind the story. But I'm not going to tell Sucker Punch they're awesome for letting me build a unique experience. I'm going to tell them they're awesome for having a super fun next-gen platforming game. I'm also going to tell them they're awesome for developing the Sly Cooper games, but that's another thread.

im going to stop you right there. i like detailed plot, but really the only "customizable story" the main character, for the most part, the plot is very well-stitched(stitched? im at loss for words here.) together plot, and side-quest the might as well have not happened as there only purpose is to give you stuff to make the story missions easier (which is kinda of needed in my dream rpg/survival crisis z)

"character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one."

that is the entire point of the genre

to have YOU or a character with YOUR personality in the game.

for example, i once in the middle of fucking NO where, made a background for my character based on random facts of the gameplay i use with him: hes SWAT aligned, and has tortured more poeple then my previous characters combined, so therefore they dumped him in zombie town for being a sadist!

then i realized i wanted to play as the character who i had already decided was a pacifist.
most games i DONT feel a need to do this, which is pathetic since ive played i ton of games in which that is the WHOLE DAMN POINT MORE OR LESS.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

*facepalm* im not referiing to branching paths you doof! im refering to making the the character YOU

I dont like that either

yea, well, IM not the one who plays JRPGs FOR GAMEPLAY

so obviously your argument is invalid.

P.S. a quick dig on JRPGs: they claim to be rpgs when "role playing" never comes into account.
statistics for you character =/= roleplaying

 

[Velocity Eleven]

they claim to be rpgs when "role playing" never comes into account.

well thats fine, i dont mind... you can call them whatever you want I just like their mechanics

 

[JuryNelson]

but only a good FEW are non-linear enough let you "role-play" WHAT-SO-EVER

thats the way i like it... by a hell of a lot... I mean, if the game has multiple possible storylines then how am I supposed to figure out which one is both best and canon?

*facepalm* im not referiing to branching paths you doof! im refering to making the the character YOU.

survival crisis z is an RPG done right imo.

-you can do whatever you want, continue the plot or fuck around.

-and by fuck around i mean "loot houses" or "torture people" or *long list of useful but less entertaining shit*

-"meh" protagonist. EASIEST to make YOU

-one plot. i HATE braching paths.

-factions. take a guess.

- no multiplayer. personal plus.

note how roleplaying by no means = branching paths.

also, if there isnt a sequal, and branches are canon

The problem with the model you're describing is that it demands a lot of work from the player. Which is to say, you're praising a game for a story that you yourself have written. This cannot be done.

It strikes me as lazy when a game like, say, Oblivion purports to have a sweeping story that the player can customize, when in reality it has One Epic World Saving story, and then just a bunch of STUFF for you to do. Not to say that's bad, I LOVE doing stuff, and I love , but I wouldn't say that Oblivion is anything more or less than an amazing character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one.

But I don't play video games to look at myself in the mirror, thank you very much. I have a pretty boring life which is part of the reason I play videogames.

I had to fill in QUITE a few of the blanks in inFAMOUS before I could really get behind the story. But I'm not going to tell Sucker Punch they're awesome for letting me build a unique experience. I'm going to tell them they're awesome for having a super fun next-gen platforming game. I'm also going to tell them they're awesome for developing the Sly Cooper games, but that's another thread.

im going to stop you right there. i like detailed plot, but really the only "customizable story" the main character, for the most part, the plot is very well-stitched(stitched? im at loss for words here.) together plot, and side-quest the might as well have not happened as there only purpose is to give you stuff to make the story missions easier (which is kinda of needed in my dream rpg/survival crisis z)

"character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one."

that is the entire point of the genre

to have YOU or a character with YOUR personality in the game.

for example, i once in the middle of fucking NO where, made a background for my character based on random facts of the gameplay i use with him: hes SWAT aligned, and has tortured more poeple then my previous characters combined, so therefore they dumped him in zombie town for being a sadist!

then i realized i wanted to play as the character who i had already decided was a pacifist.
most games i DONT feel a need to do this, which is pathetic since ive played i ton of games in which that is the WHOLE DAMN POINT MORE OR LESS.

Now we're not talking about storyline anymore.

You're saying that customizing a character and building a story for him is awesome. I don't disagree. I liked Valhalla Knights for that exact reason. It's a character creator front to back. Even "Playing The Game" isn't as fun as "Making Up A Reason to Play It." But I'm not going to sit here and talk to you about what an awesome storyline Valhalla Knights has. Because there isn't one.

We don't disagree. We just aren't talking about the same thing. We both love making up stories, we both love customizing a character and giving him/her a past/personality. But you, at first at least, seemed to be crediting the game with those stories, which is selling yourself (and players who do this sort of thing) short.

SO, the point from before, (I think?) is "Why do you need a game to have a good storyline?" and your answer, (I think) is "I don't. I just need it to be good, and if I want a story, I can make one up, thank you very much."

I think that's awesome. I do it all the time. But sometimes, I can't be bothered, and I'd like to play a game like Assassin's Creed II that flat-out shows me the context for my actions. And, indeed, games like ACII or Prototype that have entire game mechanics (if poorly implemented ones) that use the storyline as REWARD.

And now we're not talking about anything anymore. Your move.

 

[JuryNelson]

if you know me, you know I like JRPGs a LOT, and you know that I like my stories to be set-in-stone

however what I dont get is why people care so so much about storylines in games. I hear so many complaints about characters being annoying, or voice acting being bad, but I never notice any of that stuff. Its a lot less common that people complain about the actual gameplay of these games. It seems to me as though people have lost grasp of what a "game" is... its about the challenges, the skill requirements, the decisions, the rewards, the punishments etc. But I always hear people complain about "emo characters" and stuff... like for example, people say that Cloud is "emo", can't say i've ever noticed, and even if i did then what difference does it make?

you PLAY GAMES for the GAMEPLAY.

I've heard people say that people play JRPGs for the storylines cause their gameplay is limited. To me this was a huge "wtf?" moment, cause I always played JRPGs for their expansive gameplay elements and not their stories.

I just dont get it

We just hate JRPG's is all. Having good story is just another phase. When you make a game you usually have time/money for story or gameplay, not both. Also, all the cheese-eating critics on this site need for games to have stories they can rip on other-wise they all have to get real jobs. I mean what are they going to wine about if the story didn't matter --- the box art? They're dilettantes and have little technical knowledge of the games and reviewing things like efficient memory usage and innovative use of code isn't very fun to listen to.

You know what else isn't fun to listen to? Bitching about reviewers.

You don't need to be a games designer to review games in the same way you don't need to be a film director to review movies.

All the technical knowledge and coding behind a game is all Inside the Mask thinking, anyway. When you look at the game, you look at how it's experienced, not how it's put together.

But nice job throwing the word "Dilettante" in there. You don't see that one too often.

 

[HT_Black]

Because when you get a game like GTAIV or 'Screed, where the gameplay can be best likened to being smacked in the head with a ball peen hammer, story is all you can count on to save it.

And because continuous gameplay stopped being fun right around the time that publishers started charging sixty bucks a pop instead of three quarters a life.

 

[Dr. Crawver]

because gameplay is very rarely bad now, few games are unenjoyable, but the storyline is actually what makes any single player stand out. So few games can now stand alone on gameplay (GOW is the only game I can think of), so when companies bog out on their story is just a waste of time. Equally, it's meant ot be a budding artform, to ignore this is stupid

 

[Gyrefalcon]

Gameplay is good and all, but the 'playing' part all revolves around a story & plot/setting.

With little/no story there's literally no point in playing. the gameplay becomes meaningless & boring. Not only is there no incentive to do anything, but people would just sit there thinking "well why the hell am I doing this?"

With no storyline, the plot doesn't move. There is no interest.

I strongly disagree

If it's a racing game or fighting game, it doesn't need much of a story or plot. But if you are talking about any form of RPG the story is what keeps it from becoming a boring grind. I'll stick with a game that has a good story to the end. I'll drop a bad one in under 5 minutes.

If the story is bad it fails to be immersive for me. If the voice acting is bad the game is painful to play (ex. Culdcept Saga). Gameplay without context is just grind and paperdoll dress up on a meteorologist's map. My 2 cents.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

but only a good FEW are non-linear enough let you "role-play" WHAT-SO-EVER

thats the way i like it... by a hell of a lot... I mean, if the game has multiple possible storylines then how am I supposed to figure out which one is both best and canon?

*facepalm* im not referiing to branching paths you doof! im refering to making the the character YOU.

survival crisis z is an RPG done right imo.

-you can do whatever you want, continue the plot or fuck around.

-and by fuck around i mean "loot houses" or "torture people" or *long list of useful but less entertaining shit*

-"meh" protagonist. EASIEST to make YOU

-one plot. i HATE braching paths.

-factions. take a guess.

- no multiplayer. personal plus.

note how roleplaying by no means = branching paths.

also, if there isnt a sequal, and branches are canon

The problem with the model you're describing is that it demands a lot of work from the player. Which is to say, you're praising a game for a story that you yourself have written. This cannot be done.

It strikes me as lazy when a game like, say, Oblivion purports to have a sweeping story that the player can customize, when in reality it has One Epic World Saving story, and then just a bunch of STUFF for you to do. Not to say that's bad, I LOVE doing stuff, and I love , but I wouldn't say that Oblivion is anything more or less than an amazing character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one.

But I don't play video games to look at myself in the mirror, thank you very much. I have a pretty boring life which is part of the reason I play videogames.

I had to fill in QUITE a few of the blanks in inFAMOUS before I could really get behind the story. But I'm not going to tell Sucker Punch they're awesome for letting me build a unique experience. I'm going to tell them they're awesome for having a super fun next-gen platforming game. I'm also going to tell them they're awesome for developing the Sly Cooper games, but that's another thread.

im going to stop you right there. i like detailed plot, but really the only "customizable story" the main character, for the most part, the plot is very well-stitched(stitched? im at loss for words here.) together plot, and side-quest the might as well have not happened as there only purpose is to give you stuff to make the story missions easier (which is kinda of needed in my dream rpg/survival crisis z)

"character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one."

that is the entire point of the genre

to have YOU or a character with YOUR personality in the game.

for example, i once in the middle of fucking NO where, made a background for my character based on random facts of the gameplay i use with him: hes SWAT aligned, and has tortured more poeple then my previous characters combined, so therefore they dumped him in zombie town for being a sadist!

then i realized i wanted to play as the character who i had already decided was a pacifist.
most games i DONT feel a need to do this, which is pathetic since ive played i ton of games in which that is the WHOLE DAMN POINT MORE OR LESS.

Now we're not talking about storyline anymore.

You're saying that customizing a character and building a story for him is awesome. I don't disagree. I liked Valhalla Knights for that exact reason. It's a character creator front to back. Even "Playing The Game" isn't as fun as "Making Up A Reason to Play It." But I'm not going to sit here and talk to you about what an awesome storyline Valhalla Knights has. Because there isn't one.

We don't disagree. We just aren't talking about the same thing. We both love making up stories, we both love customizing a character and giving him/her a past/personality. But you, at first at least, seemed to be crediting the game with those stories, which is selling yourself (and players who do this sort of thing) short.

SO, the point from before, (I think?) is "Why do you need a game to have a good storyline?" and your answer, (I think) is "I don't. I just need it to be good, and if I want a story, I can make one up, thank you very much."

I think that's awesome. I do it all the time. But sometimes, I can't be bothered, and I'd like to play a game like Assassin's Creed II that flat-out shows me the context for my actions. And, indeed, games like ACII or Prototype that have entire game mechanics (if poorly implemented ones) that use the storyline as REWARD.

And now we're not talking about anything anymore. Your move.

no no no no.

im saying i like making up BACK stories for the MAIN character. you know "role playing" in a 'role playing game"

the actual plot though has to be good, or failing that, interesting, i rate it down.

and few RPGs are done like that. they go too much one way or too much the otherway and fail for it.

OTHER games, like FPSs, are fine if i dont roleplay cause am i supposed to? no. im supposed to shoot shit and plot is just a (extremely welcome and enriching) bonus, let alone plot i wrote myself.

 

[CloakedOne]

Gameplay is most important for non-rpgs. Back in the day all you really had WAS gameplay (ie Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, etc)

yes, a fine point.

motivation for the continuation and, now this may be a stretch here, but most games today are aiming to be more intellectually stimulating that the extremely simple-concepted games of yore. When developers introduce actually characters with motivations, conflicts, etc. like one would find in a book or in a movie, people want them to be well-developed like they are aimed to be in those media. Games are not just games anymore: they are movies and stories as well. If you don't like that people want those elements to be good, stick with games that don't use stories like puzzles and strategy games. A story is a completely subjective thing: some people will like it, others may not (and so it is with gameplay mechanics). You're used to people criticizing movies that you like and find appreciation in, yes? Why can't you apply that same ability to videogames? Besides, don't videogames present a story and thus they want it to be evaluated as enjoyable/not so enjoyable? If they present a story, they must want us to look at it. If you ignore the story most of the time in exchange for examining the gameplay, that is certainly a fine way to go. However, you shouldn't be surprised when people place value in an aspect of video games that is clearly not only emphasized but, more often than not for most of the people who play, is the primary reason for playing the game. Half of the reason is interaction while the other half is the motivation for interaction. A videogame today is a movie in which you can participate a lot of the time. If the story is bad, half of the reason for playing becomes soured.

 

[JuryNelson]

but only a good FEW are non-linear enough let you "role-play" WHAT-SO-EVER

thats the way i like it... by a hell of a lot... I mean, if the game has multiple possible storylines then how am I supposed to figure out which one is both best and canon?

*facepalm* im not referiing to branching paths you doof! im refering to making the the character YOU.

survival crisis z is an RPG done right imo.

-you can do whatever you want, continue the plot or fuck around.

-and by fuck around i mean "loot houses" or "torture people" or *long list of useful but less entertaining shit*

-"meh" protagonist. EASIEST to make YOU

-one plot. i HATE braching paths.

-factions. take a guess.

- no multiplayer. personal plus.

note how roleplaying by no means = branching paths.

also, if there isnt a sequal, and branches are canon

The problem with the model you're describing is that it demands a lot of work from the player. Which is to say, you're praising a game for a story that you yourself have written. This cannot be done.

It strikes me as lazy when a game like, say, Oblivion purports to have a sweeping story that the player can customize, when in reality it has One Epic World Saving story, and then just a bunch of STUFF for you to do. Not to say that's bad, I LOVE doing stuff, and I love , but I wouldn't say that Oblivion is anything more or less than an amazing character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one.

But I don't play video games to look at myself in the mirror, thank you very much. I have a pretty boring life which is part of the reason I play videogames.

I had to fill in QUITE a few of the blanks in inFAMOUS before I could really get behind the story. But I'm not going to tell Sucker Punch they're awesome for letting me build a unique experience. I'm going to tell them they're awesome for having a super fun next-gen platforming game. I'm also going to tell them they're awesome for developing the Sly Cooper games, but that's another thread.

im going to stop you right there. i like detailed plot, but really the only "customizable story" the main character, for the most part, the plot is very well-stitched(stitched? im at loss for words here.) together plot, and side-quest the might as well have not happened as there only purpose is to give you stuff to make the story missions easier (which is kinda of needed in my dream rpg/survival crisis z)

"character creator. A Role Playing Game, and not a story-driven one."

that is the entire point of the genre

to have YOU or a character with YOUR personality in the game.

for example, i once in the middle of fucking NO where, made a background for my character based on random facts of the gameplay i use with him: hes SWAT aligned, and has tortured more poeple then my previous characters combined, so therefore they dumped him in zombie town for being a sadist!

then i realized i wanted to play as the character who i had already decided was a pacifist.
most games i DONT feel a need to do this, which is pathetic since ive played i ton of games in which that is the WHOLE DAMN POINT MORE OR LESS.

Now we're not talking about storyline anymore.

You're saying that customizing a character and building a story for him is awesome. I don't disagree. I liked Valhalla Knights for that exact reason. It's a character creator front to back. Even "Playing The Game" isn't as fun as "Making Up A Reason to Play It." But I'm not going to sit here and talk to you about what an awesome storyline Valhalla Knights has. Because there isn't one.

We don't disagree. We just aren't talking about the same thing. We both love making up stories, we both love customizing a character and giving him/her a past/personality. But you, at first at least, seemed to be crediting the game with those stories, which is selling yourself (and players who do this sort of thing) short.

SO, the point from before, (I think?) is "Why do you need a game to have a good storyline?" and your answer, (I think) is "I don't. I just need it to be good, and if I want a story, I can make one up, thank you very much."

I think that's awesome. I do it all the time. But sometimes, I can't be bothered, and I'd like to play a game like Assassin's Creed II that flat-out shows me the context for my actions. And, indeed, games like ACII or Prototype that have entire game mechanics (if poorly implemented ones) that use the storyline as REWARD.

And now we're not talking about anything anymore. Your move.

no no no no.

im saying i like making up BACK stories for the MAIN character. you know "role playing" in a 'role playing game"

the actual plot though has to be good, or failing that, interesting, i rate it down.

and few RPGs are done like that. they go too much one way or too much the otherway and fail for it.

OTHER games, like FPSs, are fine if i dont roleplay cause am i supposed to? no. im supposed to shoot shit and plot is just a (extremely welcome and enriching) bonus, let alone plot i wrote myself.

I'm glad we got to the bottom of this.

I mentioned elsewhere in here that I like storylines because they give context and heft to what I'm doing in the game and create the illusion that there's some reason for me to kill the guy with ice magic other than him being immune to fire.

That was a really good argument. Thanks for playing.

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

that would be like asking why do people watch movies

 

[JuryNelson]

OH! And storyline is what differentiates games most immediately. What's the difference between Dante's Inferno and God of War, you ask? Well, one is about a disgraced Spartan Warrior and the other is about a disgraced Crusader, obviously. Clearly they about different things and therefore are not similar.

 

[inflamessoilwork]

People care about storylines because it draws the person into the game and if they can care about the characters in the game, it's a more immersive experience

 

[Entropyutd]

Gameplay is good and all, but the 'playing' part all revolves around a story & plot/setting.

With little/no story there's literally no point in playing. the gameplay becomes meaningless & boring. Not only is there no incentive to do anything, but people would just sit there thinking "well why the hell am I doing this?"

With no storyline, the plot doesn't move. There is no interest.

I strongly disagree

I'm with TC on this one.
I do think you need objectives, but you don't need the life story of every single person you encounter.

GTA4 is a prime example here, Rockstar brought the "personal relationship" element into their games when quite frankly 99% of the people playing could not give a shit about Cousins, Dating, or Emo killers who whine when you don't call them every 10 mins.

I don't want Devs to try to make me care about characters, Give me a sniper rifle or molotov, or magic sword, a bag of freaking stars and point me at the bad guy.
The enjoyment should be from the sense of achievement you get from completing said objectives, not by knowing that your virtual slut now has a nasty case of the clap.

In fact look at most of the good games out there and most have a story you've seen a hundred times.
Which means to me that the oft used plots of kill bad guy, get revenge or recover the shit he stole, save Earth, seems to work brilliantly.

 

[JuryNelson]

Simply put, storyline is what makes a game an experience, instead of a toy.