Why do people hate the army?

[OmniscientOstrich]

I think an important distinction needs to be made between the army as an institution and the individual people risking their lives doing the gruesome, yet in some cases necessary shit that we don't really like to acknowledge. In the case of the former; while I understand the need for a means of defense and occassional dick swinging needed to gain leverage in diplomacy, I find the money being funneled into this organisation is highly excessive. With £50m being pissed away each year to have had our soldiers sitting around in the middle east for 8 years trying to install democracy in a nation (so we can ingratiate ourselves to them and snag their oil) that has shown no progress and generated nothing but further animosity towards us and cemented our position as the American's ***** as we got dragged by the nose into that war and made ourselves a target. Though with the latter, I can understand they are simply following orders and have to undertake the grisly and repugnant acts that we'll never have to consider and they'll be the ones strung up and scapegoated by the media and made into pariahs in their own home they risked their lives defending (or they think they are defending and are just being used, which is even sadder really) while the politicians who orchestrate genocide with the wave of a hand will sit contented in their seat of power and affluent livelihood. The cunts. Or to put it in more laconic terms, I take umbrage with the people giving the orders, not the ones following them. That said, while I can respect what they do (and another thing, there's a difference between respecting an act and respecting a person and you don't necessarily have to like someone to respect them) if the individual him/herself is an obnoxious, ostentatious and arrogant prick, then I'm not going to be cowed into obsequious reverence just because they also happen to be a soldier. That's something which kind of grinds my gears, there seems to be this sub-set of people inclined to the political left and right who refuse to see the troops as anything other than crazed, amoral, troglodytic, infaticidal maniacs or altruistic, valiant, uber patriotic defenders of liberty and justice respectively. I mean really guys, such calumnious attitudes do nothing to make me take either of you seriously. >.> But yeah, never met a soldier IRL, but if I do, I'll be sure to treat them the same way I would anyone else.

 

[Syzygy23]

I can't speak for everyone and I can't say I "hate" the army, but this is my gripe.

The DoD takes up $700 Billion in spending, which is about 20% of our total budget (both 2011 & 2012 estimate). This is unacceptable during a recession like ours, especially with the scaling back of the war in Afghanistan and our exiting out of Iraq. Not, only that, but It bothers me even more that no one seems to consider a budget reducing as a viable strategy, despite our having more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined or our spending money on pointless upgrades to air superiority fighters like the F-22 or our having a bunch of B-52s that a pretty useless considering they're both outdated and not strategically viable.

Also, the fact that the Military is the enforcer of some our more dickish policies.

Other than those things, I'm fine with our military. I don't view every soldier as a hero, but as a government employee with a sometime dangerous job. Still, to paraphrase Bill Maher "I like having a military that scares the shit out of other countries, I just wish that it didn't come with the whole military-industrial complex."

Yeah I agree.

Right now, America does not need to be spending that much money on the military. Use that money to climb out of the recession and build the economy again, THEN start making laser guns (please?)

nnnnyyyeeeehhhh, I'd rather have laser guns. It's 2012 already, and we don't even have flying CARS yet, this is BULLSHIT.

Next time someone shits all over your countries respective militaries, challenge them to do what you either do or have done to earn your place. Once they pas out from exhaustion after a brief 2 mile jog they won't have the energy or breath left to belittle your job anymore.

 

[Frission]

Well, there's no question that war is pretty terrible. Blind Patriotism has also been proven to be extraordinarily dangerous.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the cheerleading for the Iraq war during the bush era.
I don't hate soldiers, but I do dislike the army and those who advocate war, without finding
other solutions. Why someone would hate the people in the army I don't know.

Some people don't just hate soldiers, they're TERRIFIED of them. For every good man, there's someone who goes on a rampage killing innocent people.

There is also a belief that soldiers (or at least base grunts) are pretty stupid. "To march you don't need a brain just a spine".
This isn't always true, since they can be more educated and definitely far more physically fit than anyone else on this site, but it might explain the sometimes misplaced disdain some people may have.

 

[Fbuh]

Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

First of all, we need an army for self defense. Also, they're helpful for enforcing diplomatic decrees and such.

I have also noticed a lot of people in the military tend to act like they can kick anyone's ass and are in general better than everyone else. I am not saying all people in the army are like this just most of the people I have come across.

Military seems to attract macho assholes, but not all of them are. In terms of military capabilities, we can kick any country's ass, hands down.

I know, just look at that guy from Hobgoblins. He could fight anybody with a rake.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Because most soldiers are mindless husks made to kill and listen to what the country says.
That's why you can often see the army going against their own people when the people fight for their rights.

No matter how you look at it, the army needs discipline and you achieve that by reprogramming the soldier. he/She stops thinking on their own and just finish the task.

I'm not saying that all of them are so, but most are for certain. Most soldiers I've talked to would do all kinds of things if it was an order. And their defense is "I would go to prison if I disobeyed" or "Well, it's his crime because he commanded it, I just did what he said.".

Sorry, but people who mindlessly obey orders from the government will never have my respect.

 

[Something Amyss]

You have to undergo a lot of training and mental reconditioning first you know. 99% of people who join the army do so to protect their people and nation. Only a small percentage of those will see combat on a regular basis, and an even smaller percentage will actually kill people.

Don't know what country you hail from, but we have felons and rapists in our army (and in higher numbers than ever, thanks to two wars) in the US. The number of people out to protect their country goes nowhere near 99%. Sorry. This is far from a universal concept and I REALLY doubt it's true where you live.

 

[The_Critic]

A nation without a military is a nation without defense. If we didn't have an army in the 1940's we would all be speaking German right now. If we don't have an army today we would all be speaking Chinese or Korean right now. So I don't understand people who hate the military so much as to say it's pointless and useless or a tax sink.

I find it funny that usually the people that are against military or our (speaking as a US citizen here) are usually the people also protest women's rights, environmentalist minded,etc. And yes those things are important, I just wish they would realize that if we didn't have a military nations like north Korea and China or Islamic extremists that hate America would quickly attack or invade us.

Then those things those people stand for, would be non existent. Lets face it, Korea, China, Islamic Extremists, there not know for their women's rights.

 

[Saulkar]

I guess it is because a few psychotic fucktards somehow make it into the army and sometimes even into a position of power and abuse to much publicity and that is the only thing people think about when someone mentions the army. Another possibility is that many people feel that military personal are government puppets who are told to kill anyone they do not like without thinking about it like a machine.

 

[Therumancer]

Im only a reservist, so i can't speak for frontline soldiers.

I nearly got in a fistfight tonight with someone who cheapened what the Irish army does, and belittled their contribution to UN peace keeping mission by labeling them mercenaries.

They broadened their vague assertions to all western armies and then had the gall to lecture me on patriotism, whilst at the same time belittling what little bit i have contributed when they have done nothing. This wasn't someone trolling me for fun, but a genuine arsehole who hates the army but is more manly than them..... how is christ's name do you deal/educate a person like that and not willingly murder them?

He called me a cheerleader, and you know what... fine.... I'll happily laud to everyone the contributions the defence forces make, ill readily admit im only a reservist sandbag scumbag.... A civilian can only contribute so much, but what i can do, i bloody well do. Why should i be ashamed of that, and why should i be ashamed of the Irish army? Why should anyone be ashamed of their army?

The basic truth is that the more prosperous a country and the better the standard of living, the more people dislike the military. When people are safe and comfortable long enough they tend to see that as the default state of being, and everyone else in the world being like them. They tend to forget why their nation is prosperous to begin with and how many nations want to increase their standard of living at the expense of anyone else they can find.

When someone is safe enough to render themselves unaware of how dangerous and messed up the world is, they lose respect for the military, the few things that get through the military tend to become the fault of the military for "provoking the attack". Likewise people become decadent and uncomfortable with the idea of killing people in other countries to maintain what they have, feeling that things could be maintained if they didn't do this.

Not to mention the constant fear that the peace and safety will be shattered, as a standing military and other threats means there is always a chance of being drafted.

In short it comes down to people feeling that if they ignore problems they won't affect them, and the guys dealing with those problems become the bad guys. It's not just Ireland, it's everywhere in the western world.

I'm not sure if I'm explaining it corectly, but the bottom line is that it's not something you can really deal with because it's an "out of context problem". The guys who are anti-military, or get all enraged over violence and collateral damage in other countries, are products of their enviroment and the way they have been raised in peace snd safety. They cannot get their mind around people in other parts of the world being fundementally differant and presenting a threat. They want to leave everything alone, in the belief that in turn they will be left along and things will just keep going on the way they are. You cannot verbally convince such people they are wrong, because they lack the experience to really understand what the world is like. The fact that they probably think themselves quite wordly due to all of the media reinforcing what they want to believe, doesn't help matters either.

The entire first world/western world has this problem to an extent. Ironically it's the price of our own success, and our militaries being so effective overall that people forget why they exist.

At least in the US I've actually thought it might be "fun" to tell the military, homeland security, and other forces to stop doing their jobs entirely for a while, let some major attacks happen, and then get back to business, by way of making a point about exactly why our military exists, and why it does what it does. I'd imagine Ireland is probably in a similar situation overall, but with differant issues, even if it's military is mostly supporting other forces.

 

[crazyarms33]

Well, the beauty of having a big army is that negotiations get so much easier. If you negotiate from an equal or greater standing both parties of the negotiation knows that a violent solution will cost money, resources and lives on both sides. A treaty in this case would be more favourable than a war. The potential gain is probably bigger for war, yet the risk is bigger too. If one of the sides have a weak army and the other has a large army then the risk of a war is low and the gain is pretty big. While I don't like the necessity for an army, I can see it and I understand it.

I can't say I blame your lack of faith in the human nature. Nature is violent all over. You'll meet a lot of those who are against war who keeps telling you animals aren't violent. that is a lie. A stable population is believed to have about 30-50% violent, greedy and/or selfish individuals. A population of pacifists isn't stable, nor is a population of fighters. War isn't human nature. It's simply nature. I don't like it, but I wont ever deny it.

I don't know if you're done or not, but just in case I want to thank you for a stimulating and friendly debate on this subject.

I couldn't agree with you more on both of these points. Very well stated. Also, thank you for keeping it civil and friendly. Until next time!

 

[RaffB]

All Armed Forces = A Job..

Same rules for any job, those who do it well should be applauded, those who do it terribly or use the power it gives in a negative way should be removed from it.

While I can't stand those who belittle soldiers because of what they do, I equally hate those few soldiers who act like they are divine beings because they are in an armed force, and I especially hate those who feel everyone should bow down before the military because they "Protect our freedoms and kill those who oppose them".

Now, don't get me wrong, if someone is genuinely protecting someone's freedoms , and putting their life on the line doing so, then they have my respect. However, that goes for anyone, my country or the other.

 

[Ranorak]

I don't hate the army.
I hate the assholes in the army.

And I'm a little upset that the army fails to screen such assholes and gives them guns.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

Lol? Soldiers fighting and dying somehow let us speak out and voice our opinions? Well gee, do tell me who they're killing and being killed by that's ready to come over to America and stop me from talking. Pretty sure they don't need to be fighting and dying to protect the country right now, they'd probably do better just sitting back here at home. They're not putting their lives on the line so we can live our lives in peace, they're doing it because they're told to and what they're doing has jack shit to do with whether I live my life in peace or not. All I need them for is a deterrent and they would do that job fine if they were safe sitting here back in America.

Very well put.

A few years back, I went to a small festival hosted on a field next to where "The War and Peace" show was being held. A bunch of solders came on site, attempted to chat up my girlfriend (she was fifteen), started a fight with some other guy, and when the guy hosting the festival threatened to call the police, they left, but cut off water to the campsite for a day. Two days later a portaloo was set on fire as well, although no one found out whether that was them, or one of the festival goers.

So, in summary, I hate their foreign policy, I hate how the eat up a considerable portion of the taxpayers money, and every single solder I've ever met has been a complete arsehole.

So yes, I guess you could say I hate the army. That's not to say I'd automatically hate someone for being in the army, but I'd certainly view them as misguided.

 

[ReSpawn]

I know you're probably just referring to the removal of Hitler and that regime, so I apologise in advance but...

Just for my own peace of mind, you're not implying that the allies introduced democracy to Germany? As in, for the first time?

No need for apology. And I am aware of the Weimarian Republic. I was referring to the removal of the Nazis, sorry for not making that clear.

Solid.

Carry on.

 

[The_Critic]

A nation without a military is a nation without defense. If we didn't have an army in the 1940's we would all be speaking German right now. If we don't have an army today we would all be speaking Chinese or Korean right now. So I don't understand people who hate the military so much as to say it's pointless and useless or a tax sink.

I find it funny that usually the people that are against military or our (speaking as a US citizen here) are usually the people also protest women's rights, environmentalist minded,etc. And yes those things are important, I just wish they would realize that if we didn't have a military nations like north Korea and China or Islamic extremists that hate America would quickly attack or invade us.

Then those things those people stand for, would be non existent. Lets face it, Korea, China, Islamic Extremists, there not know for their women's rights.

...

People aren't saying you shouldn't have a military, I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. People say that you don't need to spend $700,000,000,000 per year on it while your debt is at $15,700,000,000,000 and rising.

Of coarse you know the only reason we aren't invaded is cause our military is the most advanced in the world, cut funding and we won't causing a risk to our national security.