Why do people hate the army?

[manic_depressive13]

It's funny but I've been reading an awful lot of articles where the slaughter of civilians could hardly be considered "unintended".

Was it an order or was it murder? A soldier is a person. Some people go bat shit insane. People who are NOT in the military kill people too. Or is a soldier going off and murdering people somehow become worse than a civilian going off and murdering people?

You don't think dehumanising the enemy has anything to do with it? Placing people in dangerous and stressful situations? Handing them weapons and telling them it's fine to kill people if they feel threatened? Creating a system where you're almost guaranteed to either be acquitted of your crimes or given a negligible sentence?

Only fools deal in absolutes. Most soldiers/sailors/marines/airmen are people doing a job and trying to do it well. It is the minority that presents the bad image for everyone else.

I'm not saying that every member of the military is invariably bad. I'm just saying that the way the military is currently organised and run, it's far more destructive than constructive. That's not dealing in absolutes any more than you can say coming to a conclusion about anything is dealing in absolutes. I have seen enough evidence to draw my own conclusion and you're correct in saying that it's unlikely you will be able to present anything that will change my mind.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

"Gawrsh, why do people hate state-funded-and-trained killers? I just don't get it."

That's kind of how your post comes off to me. You can argue all you like, but the army's function comes down to two things - deterrence or killing. Sure, you can make the argument for 'but it's for self-defense'. Sure. In some cases, that's correct. Self-defense from someone else's army. And while it does differ from country to country, look at the US. Look at them. They're using their army to stomp all over developing nations.

But I don't hate the army. Armies won WW2 and removed german oppressors from my country. I just ain't comfortable with it, is all.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Varies from person to person and from army to army. A Chinese student will have different views to an American survivalist.

I'm not hostile towards the Danish army, though I would feel conflicted joining them as a republican when they're a fervently monarchist institution.

 

[A Raging Emo]

Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.

That's pretty much why.

Wow. Someone's jimmies have been rustled.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

I have no problem with soldiers for the UN/NATO but anyone fighting for their country I have a problem with. I don't believe in patriotism, it is unfounded, every country has a disgusting past and as such killing people in it's name is not honourable, however fighting for a world organisation to keep the peace makes sense to me.

 

[ReSpawn]

As a fellow german I have to point out that the democracy in Germany actually did last longer than 20 days after it was braught to this country in the late 1940s.
A fact for which I am very thankful, I must say.

I know you're probably just referring to the removal of Hitler and that regime, so I apologise in advance but...

Just for my own peace of mind, you're not implying that the allies introduced democracy to Germany? As in, for the first time?

 

[repeating integers]

I don't. I respect and am thankful for soldiers doing what I never could.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.

That's pretty much why.

Wow. Someone's jimmies have been rustled.

Your username makes that comment pretty funny, lol.

 

[A Raging Emo]

Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.

That's pretty much why.

Wow. Someone's jimmies have been rustled.

Your username makes that comment pretty funny, lol.

I'm glad you think so.

I hope you were being sarcastic in your initial post.

Capctha: Al Capone

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.

That's pretty much why.

Wow. Someone's jimmies have been rustled.

Your username makes that comment pretty funny, lol.

I'm glad you think so.

I hope you were being sarcastic in your initial post.

Capctha: Al Capone

Not even a little sarcastic, lol.

 

[Stilkon]

The issue is not with the soldiers, it's with the leadership. The marketing, too, is something that irks me. The ads on TV seem to be catering towards the "naive FPS-player" market, telling kids that being in the military is exactly like video games. I have no interest in joining the military whatsoever, but I definitely understand that joining is a serious commitment and a major life choice. The fact that someone would want to trivialize its gravity in order to make it look "cool" is quite perturbing.

 

[Necron_warrior]

As long as something is gained, anything the military does is fine by me.

 

[A Raging Emo]

Soldiers are trained murderers and the military is a war mongering hate machine that swallows lives and shits out money and lies for its people to swallow, so they can better sleep at night while the government sends their children to foreign lands they have no right to be in, to slaughter its inhabitants and/or be slaughtered themselves.

That's pretty much why.

Wow. Someone's jimmies have been rustled.

Your username makes that comment pretty funny, lol.

I'm glad you think so.

I hope you were being sarcastic in your initial post.

Capctha: Al Capone

Not even a little sarcastic, lol.

Wow. Just... wow.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Yeah. Good point. I think, this was mostly achieved by the Germans being tired of the Nazis and war itself. Also it was not a very different culture.

But when you look into Afghanistan, it's a completely different situation.
The Taliban are still up an bombing. The government is corrupt as shit.

The government is corrupt, yes, but the Taliban isn't much of a force nowdays. You have any number of petty warlords, tribal factions and criminal groups with lots of weapons fighting each other and ISAF troops (you could argue that the government is just one more of them), but they aren't the Taliban as existed before the war.

Oh, and they didn't purge Germany of Nazis that thoroughly. Very few of them were prosecuted for war crimes, a number of them ended up overseas, and there were issues with the history of the people involved in the 1972 games.

Another aspect: Now they try to avoid having civilian casualties.
In WW2 they bombed the shit out of everything. People were actually scared of the occupying soldiers. Imagine a civilian attacking a GI in Germany. They would have killed him in splitsecodns.
Look at a civialian attacking a GI in Afghanistan. "You want tea or coffee in prison before you are released in 20 minutes?"

Bullshit. A civilian attacking a soldier isn't treated as a civilian. ISAF troops aren't supposed to kill civilians for the hell of it, but they are allowed to kill civilians as an unfortunate side effect of their mission, to say nothing of killing people attacking them.

 

[Rawne1980]

As a guy who spent 12 years in the British Army my personal opinion on people who hate the military is thus....

I couldn't give a fuck.

I did a job I enjoyed and had a great life, made great friends and it helped me meet my wife. I got to travel the world and got paid for it.

I didn't join up out of patriotic ideals. I joined up because I did shit at school (I was hanging with the wrong crowd, drinking and fighting) and would have either ended up in jail or dead if I carried on down the road I was walking. There was zero career prospects in the cesspit town I was living in and the Army was a way out.

I did some physical education courses in the last couple of years of my service and now i'm a personal trainer who works for himself and earns quite a good chunk of money out of it.

I'm 32, I own my house and 2 cars. We have 3 holidays a year and have enough savings to retire in a few more years when our kids fly the coup.

The chances of me giving a ferrets testicle about random forum dwellers opinions on my time as a soldier are slim to fucking none.

 

[Dr. Mongo]

I know you're probably just referring to the removal of Hitler and that regime, so I apologise in advance but...

Just for my own peace of mind, you're not implying that the allies introduced democracy to Germany? As in, for the first time?

No need for apology. And I am aware of the Weimarian Republic. I was referring to the removal of the Nazis, sorry for not making that clear.

 

[doomspore98]

I would like to say that I don't agree with the US's current military actions. I believe that the current war in iraq could be avoided and that the less recent Vietnam was one of the worst decisions in US history. However, I do respect the soldiers that are fighting. I come from a family of pacifists but I believe that in some cases, war is unavoidable (WW1 and WW2).

 

[doomspore98]

As a guy who spent 12 years in the British Army my personal opinion on people who hate the military is thus....

I couldn't give a fuck.

I did a job I enjoyed and had a great life, made great friends and it helped me meet my wife. I got to travel the world and got paid for it.

I didn't join up out of patriotic ideals. I joined up because I did shit at school (I was hanging with the wrong crowd, drinking and fighting) and would have either ended up in jail or dead if I carried on down the road I was walking. There was zero career prospects in the cesspit town I was living in and the Army was a way out.

I did some physical education courses in the last couple of years of my service and now i'm a personal trainer who works for himself and earns quite a good chunk of money out of it.

I'm 32, I own my house and 2 cars. We have 3 holidays a year and have enough savings to retire in a few more years when our kids fly the coup.

The chances of me giving a ferrets testicle about random forum dwellers opinions on my time as a soldier are slim to fucking none.

What section of the military were you serving in?

 

[loc978]

To be fair, a soldier is technically a mercenary, it's just more organised, you get paid to shoot people, if you join the army in a time of peace, and then a week afterwards Britain declares war on Sweden because why the hell not, you're not killing swedish soldiers because you hate them, or even because you believe they are a evil that must be stopped, it's because a man is paying you to shoot Swedish soldiers, sure, you can say it's because your a patriot, but then you're a mercenary who doesn't feel bad about it because it's for "insert home country here".

...the biggest difference is that mercs get paid more, have better equipment and there's a larger barrier to entry. Being a soldier carries a certain amount of job security.

There's also the patriotism bullshit, but it never holds up under scrutiny. Captain America doesn't exist.