Why do people have such faith in humanity?

[Vault101]

because people who dont....or at least like to tell everyone how they dont I find incredibly annoying and stupid

 

[Kolby Jack]

God, I can't stand people who "lack faith in humanity." They go around saying our species sucks and we're all hopeless without doing a damn thing to try and change things! They're the equivalent of the downer asshole at summer camp who refuses to help his team pull the rope in a tug-o-war match because "there's no way we're gonna win anyway." OF COURSE WE AREN'T GOING TO WIN IF PEOPLE LIKE YOU REFUSE TO TO DO ANYTHING!!!! YOU! ARE!! NOT!!! HELPING!!!! HULK SMASH!!!!!

I'm sorry, I just get so mad at the bass-ackwards logic these people live their lives by. "Humans are all jerks who do nothing but hurt each other and makes things awful. What? No, why would I want to try and make things better? I'll just stand in the corner and tell all you guys what a terrible job you're doing."

And by no means am I conceding that humans are bastards. Some humans are, sure, but to disregard the entire species just because some people don't donate to every charity they see or make mistakes in life that cause them to be disgruntled at times is such a huge leap in logic that I can't even comprehend how they got there. And saying all humans are evil just because some charismatic individuals convinced some of us that those guys over there are evil and must die is basically the same as saying all Muslims are evil because a small number of them in desperation follow a mass-murderer because he said he can guarantee them happiness forever! Both are just stupid and wrong statements.

TC, I know you didn't go as far as what I just described, but you are on your way there and I certainly hope you change your mind about mankind, because you are on this train with the rest of us, and there ain't no gettin' offa it, so why not try and make the ride as smooth as possible, even if the conductor goes a little nuts now and then.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

Im a sucker for repetition and filler. It gets good marks in essays sometimes but it tends to bleed into internet posts. Im not talking down to you, at least i did not intend to. I dont really understand why its cyclical when we seem to agree. Its pretty balanced. And to say any one absolute is just silly. And to presume any one has the upper hand on the other without being an omniscient being is looking at things in a non subjective way. We cant really know if good>evil or visa versa, except for the tiny area in which we exist.

I myself get rather offended when you imply that im pretending to be happy by disillusioning myself "imagining rainbows and kittens" as you said before. Like i said, we draw our conclusion from the media and the small very very small facet of humanity we have seen so far in our lives. Its kinda fallacy to call a conclusion on EVEERRYYYone using only such limited and (in the media) bias facts. Badness sells. And this isnt just you obviously. Its me too. Maybe my view is wrong, but from what ive seen, the parts of humanity i interact with and see are good. Yours are bad. Does that make either of us wrong? I dont think so. We tend to project our experiences onto things we dont see.

Sorry if i caused offence. I think this arguement will run in circles then. I accept your right to think as you do, i dont know your life, although your hint that "im a saint and everyone treats me like crap" does give you good reason to become a cynic. Im sad that you apparently gave up on doing such nice things for your friends because of the way that things went. You sounded like a decent guy. I respect that.

 

[Asti]

snip"

And in response to the mundane
"yes, yes we can"

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein

Aw man, we're screwed. -.-

 

[Dragunai]

SNIP

Im a sucker for repetition and filler. It gets good marks in essays sometimes but it tends to bleed into internet posts. Im not talking down to you, at least i did not intend to. I dont really understand why its cyclical when we seem to agree. Its pretty balanced. And to say any one absolute is just silly. And to presume any one has the upper hand on the other without being an omniscient being is looking at things in a non subjective way. We cant really know if good>evil or visa versa, except for the tiny area in which we exist.

I myself get rather offended when you imply that im pretending to be happy by disillusioning myself "imagining rainbows and kittens" as you said before. Like i said, we draw our conclusion from the media and the small very very small facet of humanity we have seen so far in our lives. Its kinda fallacy to call a conclusion on EVEERRYYYone using only such limited and (in the media) bias facts. Badness sells. And this isnt just you obviously. Its me too. Maybe my view is wrong, but from what ive seen, the parts of humanity i interact with and see are good. Yours are bad. Does that make either of us wrong? I dont think so. We tend to project our experiences onto things we dont see.

Sorry if i caused offence. I think this arguement will run in circles then. I accept your right to think as you do, i dont know your life, although your hint that "im a saint and everyone treats me like crap" does give you good reason to become a cynic. Im sad that you apparently gave up on doing such nice things for your friends because of the way that things went. You sounded like a decent guy. I respect that.

The medium of the written word isn't the best to have discussions in considering inflection can't be applied the same way it can in the spoken word. So I apologize for getting uppity and will let go of my petty aggression toward your previous posts.

As I said to another poster in this thread, I have traveled extensively. I've seen the Northern Lights in Norway, the Tropical forests of Bali in Indonesia. Walked the sands in Africa and seen the ancient beauty of Europe.

By age 14 I had been to school and lived on 3 continents and as a result I have met a myriad of diverse people and situations. Thus I can say I have seen the greatest beauty the world has to offer and the worst of its sins.

If you wish to base your opinion on your immediate surroundings and the people in them, then do so. Its the logic everyone builds any opinion on and you can't be faulted or marked down for it.
I did the same thing, just basing my opinions on my years of travel. Not saying my view is more valuable than yours, maybe just more experienced if its fair to say so.

Again, I have never claimed to be a saint. I am human, therefore I am flawed and imperfect. Yes, in the past I have tried my best to help people and typically I got kicked in the teeth for it. The way those girls treated me in the past weekend was just another example of human treachery and selfishness. One that I won't soon forget and one I will most likely remember next time someone needs help and I am in a position to give it.

I am cynical for other reasons though. One of the major ones I hold onto as a nice warning for life is the last girl I loved. 3 years ago I moved to Norway to be with her, giving up everything I know, love and understand here in England to go to her. She eventually dumped me to f**k some other guy then told me she had an abortion.

When the world is so full of hatred and anger how can anyone see the purity?

 

[SD-Fiend]

SNIP

Im a sucker for repetition and filler. It gets good marks in essays sometimes but it tends to bleed into internet posts. Im not talking down to you, at least i did not intend to. I dont really understand why its cyclical when we seem to agree. Its pretty balanced. And to say any one absolute is just silly. And to presume any one has the upper hand on the other without being an omniscient being is looking at things in a non subjective way. We cant really know if good>evil or visa versa, except for the tiny area in which we exist.

I myself get rather offended when you imply that im pretending to be happy by disillusioning myself "imagining rainbows and kittens" as you said before. Like i said, we draw our conclusion from the media and the small very very small facet of humanity we have seen so far in our lives. Its kinda fallacy to call a conclusion on EVEERRYYYone using only such limited and (in the media) bias facts. Badness sells. And this isnt just you obviously. Its me too. Maybe my view is wrong, but from what ive seen, the parts of humanity i interact with and see are good. Yours are bad. Does that make either of us wrong? I dont think so. We tend to project our experiences onto things we dont see.

Sorry if i caused offence. I think this arguement will run in circles then. I accept your right to think as you do, i dont know your life, although your hint that "im a saint and everyone treats me like crap" does give you good reason to become a cynic. Im sad that you apparently gave up on doing such nice things for your friends because of the way that things went. You sounded like a decent guy. I respect that.

The medium of the written word isn't the best to have discussions in considering inflection can't be applied the same way it can in the spoken word. So I apologize for getting uppity and will let go of my petty aggression toward your previous posts.

As I said to another poster in this thread, I have traveled extensively. I've seen the Northern Lights in Norway, the Tropical forests of Bali in Indonesia. Walked the sands in Africa and seen the ancient beauty of Europe.

By age 14 I had been to school and lived on 3 continents and as a result I have met a myriad of diverse people and situations. Thus I can say I have seen the greatest beauty the world has to offer and the worst of its sins.

If you wish to base your opinion on your immediate surroundings and the people in them, then do so. Its the logic everyone builds any opinion on and you can't be faulted or marked down for it.
I did the same thing, just basing my opinions on my years of travel. Not saying my view is more valuable than yours, maybe just more experienced if its fair to say so.

Again, I have never claimed to be a saint. I am human, therefore I am flawed and imperfect. Yes, in the past I have tried my best to help people and typically I got kicked in the teeth for it. The way those girls treated me in the past weekend was just another example of human treachery and selfishness. One that I won't soon forget and one I will most likely remember next time someone needs help and I am in a position to give it.

I am cynical for other reasons though. One of the major ones I hold onto as a nice warning for life is the last girl I loved. 3 years ago I moved to Norway to be with her, giving up everything I know, love and understand here in England to go to her. She eventually dumped me to f**k some other guy then told me she had an abortion.

When the world is so full of hatred and anger how can anyone see the purity?

well it's simple that from what I've read I can tell that i am not you i have not experienced any thing you have and probably never will and can still see the world through MY eyes not yours.

 

[Dragunai]

well it's simple that from what I've read I can tell that i am not you i have not experienced any thing you have and probably never will and can still see the world through MY eyes not yours.

"I am not the world,"

You are right, I can't speak for everyone and I apologize if I came off as sounding high and mighty.

I'm just saying that the world is full of evil and humanity it a sickness.
Never said you had to agree with me.

Every person has their own view on these matters.

 

[klasbo]

[stuff went here, most of it text in form]

True logic (Aspie here) doesn't always apply to humanity, but what offends and saddens me is how many people seem to use never to no logic in their entire lives.

I thought we were suppose to be the better animals? Then why do we make less sense than ones that run on simple instinct and don't think? Like why lie to people if you hate being lied to? It makes no sense, and my nigh refusal to lie is probably one reason I don't get along with the bullshit humanity society we have anymore.

It strikes me as ironic how often parents(ones that try anyway) would tell you up and down it's best to be honest, and then with their own actions lie and deceive. Granted some people may be better about it than the world is.

I have said this before and I will say it again. I will not say every human is horrible and evil, but I'll say a great deal of them are and society seems to encourage this madness.

Most people seem to fit nicely in Lawful Evil as the old d&d alignment scale goes. They are afraid of punishment so they follow the law, they like order, but don't like helping people. If they could break a law, great away with it, and gain something out of it they'd do so in a heartbeat.

I'm told by some buddies of mine that I am often Lawful Good though generally run the gamut of goods, sometimes dipping into neutrals. So that means I really don't get along with society at all.

I'm paraphrasing, because I can't remember the original quote (and am unable to find it):
"Humans are the species most capable of learning from others' mistakes, but the least willing to do so."

I consider children a sexually transmitted disease, and I consider becoming a parent a biologically unimpressive feat that grants you no rights to abuse another human being, aka your child. But I see constant child abuse, either in the form of power-hungry parenting, or in ignorant and completely unjustifiable indoctrination that is any form of religious or ideological pressure on young minds. This is not just child abuse, this is child rape.

Here's what I've figured out: A lot of people are shit. If these people confront you with their bullshit, tell them that it's bullshit. Then get to know all the non-shit people you can find, and have a good time.

 

[tycho0042]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

 

[SD-Fiend]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

 

[tycho0042]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

 

[SD-Fiend]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

 

[tycho0042]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

 

[SD-Fiend]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

well look, I just think that what your saying sounds stupid. for something to be good it would have to benefit some one who can see that but with everyone dead no one can see that anything happened. would it be good if a super volcano went off and killed everyone and everything? it was a natural occurrence so it would have been good right? but who would it benefit? and sorry if this doesn't explain anything i'm terrible at making up good points for my side of the argument.

 

[tycho0042]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

well look, I just think that what your saying sounds stupid. for something to be good it would have to benefit some one who can see that but with everyone dead no one can see that anything happened. would it be good if a super volcano went off and killed everyone and everything? it was a natural occurrence so it would have been good right? but who would it benefit? and sorry if this doesn't explain anything i'm terrible at making up good points for my side of the argument.

My point is why do PEOPLE have to see it for it to be good. just because nobody appreciates it doesn't lower it's value any. Besides nature recovers faster from most natural disasters than it would from almost EVERY man-made disaster. I'd take an earthquake or volcano eruption over a toxic waste spill or a nuclear meltdown any day. Besides short of the planet dying I don't think any natural disaster would kill ALL life on this planet. After all even when meteors hit the planet and put it into the ice age animals evolved and grew fur. Nature finds a way.
With humankind nature CAN'T find a way. We may as well be HIV/AIDS for planets with the way we operate. There's no balance in nature for us. We have no true natural predators. Sure animals can kill people but we are so much more effective at killing then they are. All because of our so-called "Higher intellect". So far that I've seen you value humanity too much(god alone knows why) and apparently can't or won't see the wide scale damage that's been inflicted and will likely escalate until we ruin this planet or manage to wipe ourselves out.

 

[SD-Fiend]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

well look, I just think that what your saying sounds stupid. for something to be good it would have to benefit some one who can see that but with everyone dead no one can see that anything happened. would it be good if a super volcano went off and killed everyone and everything? it was a natural occurrence so it would have been good right? but who would it benefit? and sorry if this doesn't explain anything i'm terrible at making up good points for my side of the argument.

My point is why do PEOPLE have to see it for it to be good. just because nobody appreciates it doesn't lower it's value any. Besides nature recovers faster from most natural disasters than it would from almost EVERY man-made disaster. I'd take an earthquake or volcano eruption over a toxic waste spill or a nuclear meltdown any day. Besides short of the planet dying I don't think any natural disaster would kill ALL life on this planet. After all even when meteors hit the planet and put it into the ice age animals evolved and grew fur. Nature finds a way.
With humankind nature CAN'T find a way. We may as well be HIV/AIDS for planets with the way we operate. There's no balance in nature for us. We have no true natural predators. Sure animals can kill people but we are so much more effective at killing then they are. All because of our so-called "Higher intellect". So far that I've seen you value humanity too much(god alone knows why) and apparently can't or won't see the wide scale damage that's been inflicted and will likely escalate until we ruin this planet or manage to wipe ourselves out.

I can see that humanity has done bad things to itself and the world but I can't see why you value an abstract force more than your own species. nature isn't about having a balance the nature of all creatures on this earth is to multiply eat and then die if any species of animal was introduced into a new environment without any predators to check it's population it would continue to grow and consume until it's environment could no longer support it. And even though humanity has messed up a lot of the planet we as people with our "higher intellect" can tell that we are messing up and some people are trying to fix it and I hope that after time we will discover technologies that won't wreck the planet quite as badly in fact we are trying to do so now with recycling and trying to produce less waste and other eco-friendly jargon like that. And what I meant about "people need to acknowledge it" for it to have worth is that (as an example) there could be a magic lamp that could grant all wishes but if no one ever found it it would be as useful as a rock.

 

[tycho0042]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

well look, I just think that what your saying sounds stupid. for something to be good it would have to benefit some one who can see that but with everyone dead no one can see that anything happened. would it be good if a super volcano went off and killed everyone and everything? it was a natural occurrence so it would have been good right? but who would it benefit? and sorry if this doesn't explain anything i'm terrible at making up good points for my side of the argument.

My point is why do PEOPLE have to see it for it to be good. just because nobody appreciates it doesn't lower it's value any. Besides nature recovers faster from most natural disasters than it would from almost EVERY man-made disaster. I'd take an earthquake or volcano eruption over a toxic waste spill or a nuclear meltdown any day. Besides short of the planet dying I don't think any natural disaster would kill ALL life on this planet. After all even when meteors hit the planet and put it into the ice age animals evolved and grew fur. Nature finds a way.
With humankind nature CAN'T find a way. We may as well be HIV/AIDS for planets with the way we operate. There's no balance in nature for us. We have no true natural predators. Sure animals can kill people but we are so much more effective at killing then they are. All because of our so-called "Higher intellect". So far that I've seen you value humanity too much(god alone knows why) and apparently can't or won't see the wide scale damage that's been inflicted and will likely escalate until we ruin this planet or manage to wipe ourselves out.

I can see that humanity has done bad things to itself and the world but I can't see why you value an abstract force more than your own species. nature isn't about having a balance the nature of all creatures on this earth is to multiply eat and then die if any species of animal was introduced into a new environment without any predators to check it's population it would continue to grow and consume until it's environment could no longer support it. And even though humanity has messed up a lot of the planet we as people with our "higher intellect" can tell that we are messing up and some people are trying to fix it and I hope that after time we will discover technologies that won't wreck the planet quite as badly in fact we are trying to do so now with recycling and trying to produce less waste and other eco-friendly jargon like that. And what I meant about "people need to acknowledge it" for it to have worth is that (as an example) there could be a magic lamp that could grant all wishes but if no one ever found it it would be as useful as a rock.

It's pretty easy why. The bad features of humanity outweigh the good ones. The planet isn't an abstract force, it's a biosphere for all manner of organisms from the smallest bug to the largest whale and we as a race of creatures are messing it up.

As for your ideas on nature it is ALL about balance. Nature from the smallest bug to the largest of animals has some form of check and balance in the forms of predators and disease and what have you which keeps some forms of creatures in check and thus not getting too big a population. Being the ever changing virus that we are we have managed to evade nature's normal means of keeping it's creatures in check.

Anyways, I stand by my statements that we as a race are pretty well worthless, and as a part of it I would not mind if we all just died in our sleep. Or whatever means you would prefer and let things go back to their natural state. Reply if you like but I think I am done here.
There is nothing you could possibly say that would change my view on our plague of a race

 

[SD-Fiend]

couldn't tell you why people retain such faith. god knows nothing but good would come if we all just died in our sleep one night

so with everyone dead how could anyone realize anything good happened?

I'd rather not get into the "if a tree falls in the forest" or schrodinger's cat debate. The earth would recover from it's sickness known as man and move on in a more natural balance with itself and thus recover. I think that would be better than the harm we're constantly inflicting here.
"good" is a relative thing. just because we think it is doesn't guarantee it actually is. we just think it's better. Perhaps some alien race will be watching us and THEY think it's best we wiped ourselves out or just dropped dead.

those aliens must be gods if they have no problems of their own to deal with. and good for who? the world wouldn't turn into a paradise just because we left it would still be the same as it ever was animals wouldn't really notice anything besides that there are more place to live in.

I'm not sure the relevance of any potential aliens's problems. I only listed them as a possibility since you said someone had to be around for it to be realized that it was "good".
And as far as good for who? I say good for the planet. slowly it will revert to a more natural state minus our infection upon it. I personally consider that to be an improvement, I appreciate nature, thus I think it's going back to it's natural state would be "good". I would think you would agree that we've devastated miles upon miles of land for places for us to live, parking lots, toxic waste dump sites and what have you, right?
What's more I never said it would become a paradise, that's your words, not mine. I said it would go back to it's natural state eventually which I think is "good".

that still doesn't make any sense

you're going to have to elaborate on that.
All I've stated is that people don't have to be around for it to be called good. Which you seem to think is not the case.
I think the planet being healthy again is much better than what we've managed to do with it.

well look, I just think that what your saying sounds stupid. for something to be good it would have to benefit some one who can see that but with everyone dead no one can see that anything happened. would it be good if a super volcano went off and killed everyone and everything? it was a natural occurrence so it would have been good right? but who would it benefit? and sorry if this doesn't explain anything i'm terrible at making up good points for my side of the argument.

My point is why do PEOPLE have to see it for it to be good. just because nobody appreciates it doesn't lower it's value any. Besides nature recovers faster from most natural disasters than it would from almost EVERY man-made disaster. I'd take an earthquake or volcano eruption over a toxic waste spill or a nuclear meltdown any day. Besides short of the planet dying I don't think any natural disaster would kill ALL life on this planet. After all even when meteors hit the planet and put it into the ice age animals evolved and grew fur. Nature finds a way.
With humankind nature CAN'T find a way. We may as well be HIV/AIDS for planets with the way we operate. There's no balance in nature for us. We have no true natural predators. Sure animals can kill people but we are so much more effective at killing then they are. All because of our so-called "Higher intellect". So far that I've seen you value humanity too much(god alone knows why) and apparently can't or won't see the wide scale damage that's been inflicted and will likely escalate until we ruin this planet or manage to wipe ourselves out.

I can see that humanity has done bad things to itself and the world but I can't see why you value an abstract force more than your own species. nature isn't about having a balance the nature of all creatures on this earth is to multiply eat and then die if any species of animal was introduced into a new environment without any predators to check it's population it would continue to grow and consume until it's environment could no longer support it. And even though humanity has messed up a lot of the planet we as people with our "higher intellect" can tell that we are messing up and some people are trying to fix it and I hope that after time we will discover technologies that won't wreck the planet quite as badly in fact we are trying to do so now with recycling and trying to produce less waste and other eco-friendly jargon like that. And what I meant about "people need to acknowledge it" for it to have worth is that (as an example) there could be a magic lamp that could grant all wishes but if no one ever found it it would be as useful as a rock.

It's pretty easy why. The bad features of humanity outweigh the good ones. The planet isn't an abstract force, it's a biosphere for all manner of organisms from the smallest bug to the largest whale and we as a race of creatures are messing it up.

As for your ideas on nature it is ALL about balance. Nature from the smallest bug to the largest of animals has some form of check and balance in the forms of predators and disease and what have you which keeps some forms of creatures in check and thus not getting too big a population. Being the ever changing virus that we are we have managed to evade nature's normal means of keeping it's creatures in check.

Anyways, I stand by my statements that we as a race are pretty well worthless, and as a part of it I would not mind if we all just died in our sleep. Or whatever means you would prefer and let things go back to their natural state. Reply if you like but I think I am done here.
There is nothing you could possibly say that would change my view on our plague of a race

fine fine fine I must respect your point of view even if I do find it stupid. But even so nature still isn't about checks and balances it's survival of the fittest and other generic sayings such as that.