Why do people reject evolution?

[disgruntledgamer]

There were always two forms of evolution that I recall; Micro (small changes and adapting to your environment) and Macro (a fish one day is born with legs and takes a stroll on to land) evolution.

Um No that maybe the YEC definition of Macro evolution, but that's not what it is. Looking at the genetic deference between a fox and wolf is a good example of Macro evolution anything above the level of species.

We actually see examples of this today they're called ring species.

I have absolutely no problem with Micro evolution and have always believed in that but it's macro that I've always had an issue with. The idea that one day that a fish would grow legs and start walking around was always just silly sounding to me.

My question for you is whats the limit? If Micro evolution are small genetic changes and these genetic changes keep accumulating it will eventually lead to Macro evolution no? How can you not follow this to its logical conclusion.

Also we do have fish alive today that actually go on land and we have fossils that show the transition of fins to legs

All we have to go on Macro are fossils of mutated animals and the "missing link" (which is obviously missing; hence the name). Until we eventually witness in our life something that evolves that heavy-handed, I have a hard time believing that it actually happened.

1. No we have Ring Species to go on for Macro evolution. FYI they're alive today

2. The "missing link" hasn't been missing for quite some time now. In fact the problem isn't that we haven't found the missing link it's that we found too many and are having trouble classifying them.

An example of ring species. Each neighboring salamander can reproduce with each other except at the end with eschschoitzii and klauberi, where they have become too genetically different to reproduce with each other.

 

[Aglynugga]

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.

You are a brave man my friend.

He's not brave but simply a troll, you can look at his posting record for that. Also, damn you other biology students for replying before I had a chance to type out my text. I'm having a big exam coming up with that being one of the major parts.

Let me at least say that what religion someone has doesn't necessarily matter. I personally don't really care if you're Christian, Buddhist, Atheist or part of that Shiva cult from Indiana Jones if you're willing to listen to explanations instead of dismissing it all because an old book or a mystic stone stolen from an Indian village tells you so. If the pope can agree with science then there is every possibility of accepting it yourself.
And please never listen to anything said by anyone who calls himself a "creation scientist". If you have ever seen a single Kent Hovind video and actually knew the topic he rambled about you'd understand why. For example he has his own little "theory of evolution(s)" where he also likes to throw in things like "stellar evolution"the formation of stars and planets, "chemical evolution"meaning, the evolution of hydrogen into higher elements or "cosmic evolution"apparently the evolution of time & space.
I could go further and talk a lot about this idiocracy but I think and hope we can all agree on this.

No man you listen to this because it is in the bible. You can't say oh no this man is religious I will call him a troll and then he will not be listened to so people will not hear about god. But if i am a troll i am a troll for God because I will not let you try to make people think that they are monkeys or came from the sea like mermaids. You don't understand because you are probably an atheist and never read the bible anyways you proabaly read the koran like some terrorists do. But you know what even though you are against god and would let people worship satan and things I know you have to love and tolerate me because your satan pony makes you.
People U need to love God and let him into your heart. He is your maker not crazy monkeys or satan.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

What? Now I'm no scientist or anything, but is this a real claim, or an exaggeration for effect? Cuz if it's the latter (and I'm thinking it is) then cut it out, it doesn't help you.

Its true. We as a culture have NO idea WHY mass exhibits a force on all other mass. Obviously it does. In the same way evolution obviously happens. The theory of gravity tries to explain WHY it happens much like the theory of evolution tries to explain HOW things evolve. Its undeniable things move toward eachother. And its undeniable things turn into other things. The question of how is the real scientific debate. Only the ignorant try and ignore or just dont understand the original facts.

A theory is an explanation for a series of facts that form a pattern. A theory can never become a fact or visa versa. A theory is the sum of many facts.

Whenever i let go of this small ball it falls to the large earth. The moon also shows this effect. As does our sun. Fact: All mass observed so far has a force acting on all other mass which has a strength proportional to its mass. Theory: This is caused by the higgs boson which is the particle that has the attracting force behind gravity which can warp the flow of time. We only recently confirmed the higgs exists with more tests to solidify the theory. We had very little idea of what about matter makes gravity occur previously.

OT:

I have yet to meet a single person who denied evolution who understood it. Ever.

 

[Terminate421]

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.

This, unless you were being ironic. Or a troll.

I believe in what I believe. But I believe it's fucking stupid to think that we just "evolved" to get to where we are from some species that was similar to us. Talk about down right depressing. This means, that we all don't matter, not one soul in the world matters. We are nothing. Fuck that.

I understand how evolution works. But I don't deny the presence of a higher power. Apparently it's impossible to understand or believe both.

And the countdown to Quotes that say "You're stupid for believing in religion, blah blah blah!" come up......

FOR FUTURE POSTERS: I WILL NOT ANSWER YOU IF YOU QUOTE ME.

 

[Heronblade]

One of the strongest scientific theories to date, even stronger than the theory of Gravity

What? Now I'm no scientist or anything, but is this a real claim, or an exaggeration for effect? Cuz if it's the latter (and I'm thinking it is) then cut it out, it doesn't help you.

No exaggeration there, we have much more information on the means by which evolution works than gravity. Frankly, the forces behind gravity are a brain boggler that has been causing headaches for centuries.

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.

This, unless you were being ironic.

I believe in what I believe. But I believe it's fucking stupid to think that we just "evolved" to get to where we are today. Talk about down right depressing. This means, that we all don't matter, not one soul in the world matters. We are nothing. Fuck that.

I understand how evolution works. But I don't deny the presence of a higher power. Apparently it's impossible to understand or believe both.

A.) Not liking the implications of something does not affect whether or not it is true. That makes about as much sense as declaring that the universe moves around the perfectly still Earth, just because you don't like the idea that you and the ground you are on are moving, or deciding that you deserve an A in a class you failed, in spite of having done no work at all.
B.) I STRONGLY disagree with the assertion that evolution means we are worth nothing. Frankly, I consider it to be the other way around. Instead of incredibly flawed creations of a perfect being that are failing to live up to our purpose on a moment to moment basis, we are creatures that have managed to move far past the limitations of other animals, overcoming obstacles that might have been considered impossible for something of our origin. So, which is really a more admirable image? The disappointing failure, or the victorious underdog?
C.) Absolutely nothing about evolution denies or limits the presence, existence, or abilities of god or any significant premise of Christianity. At best(or worst), it only contradicts a literal word for word interpretation of the first few paragraphs of Genesis. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, Darwin himself was a devout Christian that saw no contradiction there.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

I think this belongs in Religion and Politics...

Not to mention you already answered it for yourself. There are a lot of crazy people out in the world, for your own sanity I'd avoid talking about things like that to them.

It has nothing to do with ether Religion or Politics as there are religious people who believe in evolution and atheists that don't believe in evolution.

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.

You are a brave man my friend.

He's not brave but simply a troll, you can look at his posting record for that. Also, damn you other biology students for replying before I had a chance to type out my text. I'm having a big exam coming up with that being one of the major parts.

Well as a biology student you should of realized he was 100% correct! (Except for the talking snake part, we have yet to find a snake that talks)

Humans ancestors were not monkeys nor were our grandparents chimps. We all have a common ancestor, but they were nether chimp, nor monkey, nor human. Humans did not evolve from apes we are apes. That's not up for debate, we are classified as an ape.

 

[Quaxar]

One of the strongest scientific theories to date, even stronger than the theory of Gravity

What? Now I'm no scientist or anything, but is this a real claim, or an exaggeration for effect? Cuz if it's the latter (and I'm thinking it is) then cut it out, it doesn't help you.

But we actually don't know all that much about gravity. Sure, we know that accumulation of mass causes it and we can calculate for it but we have no proper model on how it operates, especially on a quantum physics level. With evolution we have genetics, anatomy and dozens of other things to support it.
Not saying that the statement is necessarily true but at least it could very well be.

No man you listen to this because it is in the bible. You can't say oh no this man is religious I will call him a troll and then he will not be listened to so people will not hear about god. But if i am a troll i am a troll for God because I will not let you try to make people think that they are monkeys or came from the sea like mermaids. You don't understand because you are probably an atheist and never read the bible anyways you proabaly read the koran like some terrorists do. But you know what even though you are against god and would let people worship satan and things I know you have to love and tolerate me because your satan pony makes you.
People U need to love God and let him into your heart. He is your maker not crazy monkeys or satan.

You're cute. And shockingly close to some people's true believes, if it weren't for your past posts I might even have believed you. Oh, and the pony part.

 

[disgruntledgamer]

One of the strongest scientific theories to date, even stronger than the theory of Gravity

What? Now I'm no scientist or anything, but is this a real claim, or an exaggeration for effect? Cuz if it's the latter (and I'm thinking it is) then cut it out, it doesn't help you.

No exaggeration there, we have much more information on the means by which evolution works than gravity. Frankly, the forces behind gravity are a brain boggler that has been causing headaches for centuries.

Thanks for getting that, to expand more gravity doesn't behave like it should or as we expect once we go down to the atomic level. Evolution has a better track record than gravity.

So the next time someone says "Evolution is just a Theory" Kick him down some stairs and say "It was only a Theory you would fall"

 

[Rastien]

Just a question, why do you feel the need to tell people what to believe?, well maybe it is fact as you say, but that doesn't give you the right to preach to someone that what they believe in is wrong at least not in my opinion.

It's like personally i really don't like being preached at wether it's about religeon or my lifestyle choice or even if the way in which i butter my toast is wrong. It's like just let people believe what they want, it's not doing any harm, i suppose you could say religeon is a large cause of war but without religeon we would only find something else to fight over.

I guess my point is i find it abit ironic how some people look down upon religeos people and preach to them, which is exactly what they hate having done to themselves! believe what you want and let people be you find life alot more bearable if you accept that not everyone will agree with you.

Also religeon and politcs yo, this aint for off topic

Oh also i'm not religous, but i respect those who are and those who are not equally we all make choices in life, abit of respect goes a long way.

 

[Heronblade]

Just a question, why do you feel the need to tell people what to believe?, well maybe it is fact as you say, but that doesn't give you the right to preach to someone that what they believe in is wrong at least not in my opinion.

It's like personally i really don't like being preached at wether it's about religeon or my lifestyle choice or even if the way in which i butter my toast is wrong. It's like just let people believe what they want, it's not doing any harm, i suppose you could say religeon is a large cause of war but without religeon we would only find something else to fight over.

I guess my point is i find it abit ironic how some people look down upon religeos people and preach to them, which is exactly what they hate having done to themselves! believe what you want and let people be you find life alot more bearable if you accept that not everyone will agree with you.

Frankly, I don't really care what if any religion a person chooses to follow. I can only speak for myself though, and yes there are nonbelievers out there that get into the habit of preaching, its rather embarrassing.

However, I do care about misinformation, deliberate or otherwise. Take Tippy above for example, if we take his words at face value (no offence there tippy, but this is the internet), his entire objection to the idea of evolution was based on a misunderstanding of what it meant.

Not only that, but the misunderstanding in question is COMMON. It is misinformation that is spread, whether they are aware that it is false or not, by those that don't like the idea of evolution. I don't mind differences of opinion, but ignorance, especially ignorance that is spread around, is another matter.

 

[Rastien]

Just a question, why do you feel the need to tell people what to believe?, well maybe it is fact as you say, but that doesn't give you the right to preach to someone that what they believe in is wrong at least not in my opinion.

It's like personally i really don't like being preached at wether it's about religeon or my lifestyle choice or even if the way in which i butter my toast is wrong. It's like just let people believe what they want, it's not doing any harm, i suppose you could say religeon is a large cause of war but without religeon we would only find something else to fight over.

I guess my point is i find it abit ironic how some people look down upon religeos people and preach to them, which is exactly what they hate having done to themselves! believe what you want and let people be you find life alot more bearable if you accept that not everyone will agree with you.

Frankly, I don't really care what if any religion a person chooses to follow. I can only speak for myself though, and yes there are nonbelievers out there that get into the habit of preaching, its rather embarrassing.

However, I do care about misinformation, deliberate or otherwise. Take Tippy above for example, if we take his words at face value (no offence there tippy, but this is the internet), his entire objection to the idea of evolution was based on a misunderstanding of what it meant.

Not only that, but the misunderstanding in question is COMMON. It is misinformation that is spread, whether they are aware that it is false or not, by those that don't like the idea of evolution. I don't mind differences of opinion, but ignorance is another matter.

Fair, i get where you're coming from but i think these days people have the information to hand, if they choose to be ignorant as you say let them be, i can't see it doing any harm to myself or others as the information on evolution and religeon is easily avaible and people can make an informed opinion.

I guess i don't mind people being ignorant as long as they keep it to themselves ya know same with people who believe in evolution is all cool.

 

[Vault101]

because 99% people who reject it don;t understand it

for example...

If there is something else in my post you don't like, feel free to quote me but if it's just to explain Micro V. Macro, don't bother. Thanks

fish don;t just wake up with legs one day....

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No!

you are absolutly correct, we came from APES not monkeys, and we are not related to the monkeys you find in the zoo (at least not on gradparents level)

I didn;t go past basic level highschool science and generally I can wipe the floor with whatever feeble excuses "evolution denyers" come up with...

 

[Dinwatr]

I guess my point is i find it abit ironic how some people look down upon religeos people and preach to them, which is exactly what they hate having done to themselves

There are several differences. First, I was responding to someone else basically saying that my field--something I've devoted my life to, and risked my life FOR on a number of occasions, and which stands next to any other science as an equal--is worthless. I take mild offense to that. Second, the poster made a number of factual errors, and I was merely correcting them. Considering the fact that this is my profession, it's rather obligatory, sort of like a doctor speaking out against anti-vax nonsense. Third, my post wasn't a matter of belief. It's a matter of professional opinion. That puts it in another category all together. I know this stuff because I study this stuff. What I've said aren't mere opinions, as most statements of belief are, but rather well-researched opinions. I can provide the abreviated bibliography if you'd like--I just saw my textbook on vertebrate evolution today, and keep The Evolution of Tertiary Mammals and The Dinosauria easily accessible (for unrelated reasons).

As for letting people be, I'm more than happy to. When they stop accusing me of fraud, I'll let them be. You don't get to claim that you were assaulted after you punch someone in the nose. I WANT to be left alone, and I have remarkably little interest in correcting people who deny evolution. It's BORING. The last new idea they had was sometime in the 1800s. Worse, it's BASIC stuff they get wrong--which means arguing with them actually degrades my ability to do my job (constant focus on simple stuff makes it harder to understand the more complex stuff, because you're not familiar with it). But they're attacking my means of support--and it IS an attack, some of them part of a systematic attempt to eliminate it and others duped by that attack (no conspiracy theory thinking here--there IS a conspiracy, with actual evidence, in the form of the Wedge Document). I'm all for live and let live. When they agree as well, I'll call it quits. Until then, I'm rather obligated to speak out against them. My family's well-being depends, in a very small part, on it (I'll be the first to admit I'm not an avid crusader against them, but I do my part).

Oh yeah, there's also a body count associated with rejecting evolution. A rather high one. So there's that.

Don't get me wrong; I understand where you're coming from. It's just that you obviously have a different perspective from me. For me, this is a rather immediate thing, with the potential for some fairly dire consequences. Frankly, my kind will be first against the wall if the Creationists win (and some HAVE called for that). Tends to make me rather unhappy when people spout nonsense, and I try to correct them.

 

[Heronblade]

Fair, i get where you're coming from but i think these days people have the information to hand, if they choose to be ignorant as you say let them be, i can't see it doing any harm to myself or others as the information on evolution and religeon is easily avaible and people can make an informed opinion.

I guess i don't mind people being ignorant as long as they keep it to themselves ya know same with people who believe in evolution is all cool.

Except that they don't always keep it to themselves. On this exact same topic, there is a very expensive, very long battle currently going on over the content of the next generation's education. We shouldn't have to fight to keep the principles of intelligent design and creationism taught as part of religious studies, as opposed to scientific fact, but we are. We shouldn't have to fight to prevent basic course material on evolution from being twisted to include inaccuracies like the ones above, but we are.

Individual people can choose to be ignorant if they wish, and I am not one to go seeking them out, but I will do whatever is reasonable to make sure that accurate information is the primary source for others who have not yet formed an opinion, and if someone chooses to talk about something that I know to be incorrect where it is appropriate for me to respond, I will respond.

 

[Quaxar]

It's like just let people believe what they want, it's not doing any harm, i suppose you could say religeon is a large cause of war but without religeon we would only find something else to fight over.

I'd suppose it is not the fact that they like to believe in a supernatural being but that those people chose to ignore scientific facts because that being tells them to in ancient scripture. Of course it isn't really anyone's business if John McAnyman likes to think that the world is 6000 years old, but the problem starts when that same guy gets elected to an education board and starts to pour his blatantly false believes into the public education system.
I hope I don't need to bother with examples because the US alone has a very special heart for those people.

Fair, i get where you're coming from but i think these days people have the information to hand, if they choose to be ignorant as you say let them be, i can't see it doing any harm to myself or others as the information on evolution and religeon is easily avaible and people can make an informed opinion.
Sure it's out there but that would mean looking and reading and thinking and a lot of people prefer to get their information second hand. And unfortunately those second-hand evolution informers may very well be people like Ray Comfort who likes to argue that creation is true because the banana fits in a human hand, not bothering to tell anyone that bananas as we know them are more or less a cultivated fruit that aren't all that perfect <url=http://www.youjustmademylist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/wild_banana-300x225.jpg>in the wild. And of course disregarding the fact that about all the rest of fruits does NOT fit a hand at all.

My ancestors weren't monkeys ok, is that what you want to teach your kids? Bring your child to the zoo and bring them to the chimps and points to them then say' Look its your gradparents wave hello and give them a kiss."? No! That is not right we come from the bible like God says Adam and Eve not Davey and Steve and there was a snake.
So I say to you look in your heart and see that God made you and he made you very special and you are not made from monkeys.

This, unless you were being ironic. Or a troll.

I believe in what I believe. But I believe it's fucking stupid to think that we just "evolved" to get to where we are from some species that was similar to us. Talk about down right depressing. This means, that we all don't matter, not one soul in the world matters. We are nothing. Fuck that.

I understand how evolution works. But I don't deny the presence of a higher power. Apparently it's impossible to understand or believe both.

And the countdown to Quotes that say "You're stupid for believing in religion, blah blah blah!" come up......

Kudos for posting your statement in a thread started by a microbiologist with at least 3 biology students and one paleontologist (i guess?) in it. Not sarcasm btw. Unless you were being ironic or a troll then I totally knew that all the time!

Why should it be impossible to believe in religion and science? If the Vatican can accept evolution as a fact then it can't really be a general problem, can it?
And keep in mind that you are not just arguing against a "hey, that monkey looks a bit like us. we must be related"-guess but against a heap of anatomical, genetical and fossil records that all support each other. As an example if all was created like it is now then why do chickens have inactive genes for reptile tails like the dinosaurs from which they supposedly evolved? Why do whales, frogs and humans possess all the same arm/front leg bones? Why can we find things like <url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus>Australopitheci that show both human and primate characteristics?

What would you say if I told you that I didn't believe in the holocaust because it is depressing to think that people could possibly treat fellow human beings like that?sorry for Godwining but it's really late and I couldn't think of another better example
I don't mind your religion, I mind choosing to ignore facts because of personal preference.

 

[Shadowstar38]

I've had it explained to me a number of times by people who sounded like they were knowledgable about the subject. Every time, no matter what level of education I was at, all I could think was "This sounds asinine". So there you go.

 

[Rastien]

Just a question, why do you feel the need to tell people what to believe?, well maybe it is fact as you say, but that doesn't give you the right to preach to someone that what they believe in is wrong at least not in my opinion.

So you're preaching at us that we're wrong to think we're allowed to tell someone they're wrong? Really, people who say others shouldn't ever express contradictory opinions should stop a second before they speak and just not talk for obvious reasons.

Pretty harsh yo, all i'm saying is just take a step back and except others believe differently to you is all ^^ but if you feel i shouldn't talk thats cool an all just felt the need to point out people will always believe different things

Also from the replys i have read this seems to be quite an important issue for stateside people in the school system etc. So i can't really speak for that side of things it's pretty quiet where i live, got a wide range of cultures we just let people be and do what they want as long as it doesn't impede on yourself ^^

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

As long as kids get taught proper science and not fairy tales in schools I don't really care what people want to believe.