Thats not what I said.Auron said:
What I said was that I feel our origins were based off a higher power. I never said I let that control who I am.
My beliefs come second to my common sense. Simple as that.
Why do people reject evolution?
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What I said was that I feel our origins were based off a higher power. I never said I let that control who I am.
My beliefs come second to my common sense. Simple as that.
I know the scientific theory but more often than not scientists will try to force the conclusion to suit their theory. This happens because of A money and B pride. I am not saying that there are no good scientists out there but there is an inherent flaw in our motives for science that forces us to consider the results. That being said my original point wasn't to discredit science but to try and show people the other view because right now all parts of the discussion are not even trying to see the view from the other side.Lhianon said:
we don;t know what? we don;t know if evolution is true? we can have evidence thoughEcoEclipse said:
[quote/]Besides, who are you, any of you, to criticize beliefs?[/quote]
you can "belive" whatever you wan't..doesnt mean people can't question it
[quote/]Just 'cause you think evolution's right, doesn't mean everyone should think it's right,or that it even is right. There are "missing links" in evolution, right? Wikipedia tells me humans in their current state have been around for about 200,000 years. Why haven't we evolved further yet? I haven't looked into it too far, but if evolution is indeed that slow, how'd we get from single-celled organisms to, well, us in the time life has been on Earth? (Approx. 3.5 billion years, I guess.)[/quote]
because evolution takes longer than 200.000 years...and there are no "missing links"
its takes a long fucking time
[quote/]Mind you, I don't refute evolution. I see it as possible, probable even. But I also see other schools of thought as equally possible. How the assumption "oh, they don't believe evolution because they don't want to," or "they don't understaaaand it" makes any sense is beyond me. That's practically a blanket insult to those who think differently.
Ech. I'm already regretting getting involved in this.[/quote]
think differently? I'll tell you why people get agressive, its because peopel (more often than not motivated by relgion or ignorance) WASTE everybodys time making up shit to try and discredit evolution while not understanding it
every
single
fucking
argument
against it gets somthing wrong, somthing that even "I" the highschool dropout can refute
The theory of gravity isn't rejected by religious books.disgruntledgamer said:
People believe what they have been brain washed to believe unless they have the mental strength to accept what is almost certainly the truth. If they are a born again christian who rejects gravity then they are mentally unwell.
Yes, for some certain branches of biology(pharmaceuticals especially *shudder*), this is true. Yet that doesn't say anything. If someone thought they could "disprove evolution", they'd try to, because there's a lot of prestige involved in knocking down such a solid scientific theory, and with all the people who want evolution disproved, there wouldn't be a problem with getting it funded.Therarchos said:
Thus the problem is that either nobody even bothers trying because they don't believe it's any point in wasting their time on it, or there simply aren't results that contradict it. It's probably a bit of both, though.
Like I said, look at the new prevalence of pathological bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics, which is a result of overuse of antibiotics. This has happened because bacteria that aren't killed by antibiotics gain a reproductive advantage. It started out with being the bacteria whose cell walls, purely by chance, had a minor chemical difference which made them slightly harder to kill, but these bacteria were the ones that were selected for and brought their genes further down the line. Over the trillions of bacterial generations they have evolved more elaborate ways to shut down antibiotics, because the ones that are the hardest to kill are the ones that get selected for the most.
Now, it could be that it's just strains with resistance to antibiotics weren't discovered before and that this wasn't related to evolution. Unfortunately, this isn't the case, because resistance to antibiotics can be induced in a laboratory. In fact, I did one of those experiments back in freaking high school(and I do it on a semi-regular basis at my university), so it's a pretty damn simple thing to do. Antibiotics kill the vast majority of the bacteria during the experiment, but those that gain resistance, either by chance or through lateral gene transfer, bring their genes on to further generations.
This is survival of the fittest for you. If you've got a reproductive advantage, you'll bring your genes further down the line. This is how evolution works.
Wait what? That made no sense whatsoever.
Are you seriously saying that resistance to antibiotics in bacteria could have evolved even if evolution didn't exist? If so, please enlighten me on how that happened.
I've seen people try to be reasonable about this discussion, but their evidence and arguments is usually just misunderstandings in how evolution actually works(there are a couple of examples in this thread, in fact). The rest generally is the retarded diehards.
If you could point me towards someone who has a good understanding in evolutionary processes and biology overall, who still argues against it, I'd happily take that discussion. I still haven't met that person, though.
well this article: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118630-10-7-Billion-Year-Old-Spiral-Galaxy-Stuns-AstronomersEcoEclipse said:
used to claim that we foudn the end of universe, but apparently they fixed it.
and egoistic self-serving human, just like you.
we have. we are taller, live longer, our backs are straighter, we get better motor control of our fingers as work demands more precision. besides 200.000 years is a very short term. not to mention that it is believed that races didnt even exist 200.000 years, so heres a big evolution step if you need one.
if you deny evolution while providing no evidence to refute it, you ahve no right to cry wolf when we say you are wrong. because you are.
Ahh you just dont get enough physics jokesdisgruntledgamer said:
but your making the same old mistake. using reason and logic against belief, its like trying to mop up water with oil.
Belief is about need and fear it doesnt matter how often it gets corrected it carries on , i mean just look at the re writes on the bible, it tells us to execute unruly children , stone people that work on the sabbath and that definition extends to anything ie were all fucked. we should burn women that wear two different fabrics at the stake , slavery is fine women are base animals and growing two different seeds next to each other is also a trip to hell. it survived all those re writes it will go past evolution without a bump.
But at the end of the day we are all Atheists, its just some of us dont belief in one more god.
Yes. In much the same way that there are "missing links" in history. We know that the first humans moved into the Americas via Alaska somewhere between 40,000 and 25,000 BCE. We know the Inca existed in the 1400s in South America. Can we draw an exact route from the Paleolithic humans that crossed the Bering land bridge to the Inca? No. But it would be hard to argue that they came from somewhere else. That's an evolutionary "missing link". Just like any other sort of historical artifact, bones are fragile. They require special circumstances to preserve them. If those circumstances don't occur, we don't get fossils. Without fossils, we can't draw an exact timeline. But that doesn't mean we can't get an overall view. Don't worry so much about the missing pieces, the puzzle is still pretty clear.EcoEclipse said:
Why do you feel the need to ask this? What possible influence does a selection of people not believing in the theory of evolution have on you? Does it piss you off? There are much better things to be pissed at people for go channel that anger at human traffickers or something. That issue needs more pissed people doing something about it. Does it bother you that people think something different from you? Then go study world culture and learn not to be a dick when people think differently. Do you believe that this theory is so correct that nothing could ever disprove it and everyone should believe in it? Then go study how science works and its history, its full of theories that were proved very very wrong and lessons about keeping an open mind. Why did you feel the need to make an enter thread to complain about this? This is just so small and petty. Science doesn't give a fuck about who believes what, its about making observations and coming up with theories to explain phenomena based on observable evidence. Getting upset over it and causing a stink when people don't believe in a theory is the same thing religious zealots do when they yell over someone not believing in there religious beliefs. Yeah you may have repeatable data and experiments to support you, but your attitude sucks and that's the real problem. People being ignorant or not observing what is almost unquestionably true may be an issue but people being dicks is a much bigger problem.
which is fine..EcoEclipse said:
but you can;t honestly expect anyone to accept "belifes" as just a vaild thing as science
it is one of those few topics that really DOES piss me off...because alot of the time people who cirticise evolution don;t understand it and are wasting everyones timeTwilight_guy said:
The main problem isn't an individual that is personally choosing to reject evolution, the problem occurs when it does affect others. Namely when some of those individuals who have chosen to reject evolution then indoctrinate their children so that they reach the same conclusion or try to prevent an education system teaching evolution. At that point they are intentionally trying to spread their ignorance to others, that's is when others are affected and society as a whole influenced.Twilight_guy said:
Most of the threads about evolution talk about religion as if no religious group on Earth accepts evolution and all its followers vehemently oppose it. The catholic church acknowledges evolution and is the biggest subgroup in one of the biggest religion in the world. That pisses me off but I don't go make threads about it because I know it will only end in a big flame war that wastes everyone's time and just makes people mad. This thread doesn't advance anything, it just states that the OP is mad because people think a certain way, it doesn't pose anything new and its work to solve any issues, it wallows in its own glorified opinion. If you're mad, then get mad, but at least direct it at threads that have some meaning and not at this garbage. There are too many 'mad' threads where people just blow hot air about how pissed they are and go in circles. It's the very core of R&P on this site and I can barley stand it anymore.Vault101 said:
Willful Ignorance
Darwin advanced a theory; like all theories, it changed a little under scrutiny; genetic sequencing has proved it true
Granted, there are still mild disagreements of the particulars, but scientific arguments over evolution are like two guys at a car show arguing over whether a car is hot rod red or fire engine red; neither of them is saying it isn't a 67 Mustang.
All the facepalming over people rejecting evolution is useless. If you have someone who refuses to gain a basic understanding of the concept, there's no point in trying to educate them. I spent a couple years wherein I would trade creationist literature for evolutionary texts with religious friends. Invariably, I would read a bunch of crap (The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves the Christian God!) and when I asked what they thought of the book I lent them would get a response of, "Yeah, well, I didn't really get into it, so never actually read it." Happened at least five times.
Just give up, realize that some people are happier ignorant, so will refuse to learn and try not to let it bug you come election cycles when half the candidates will claim to not believe in evolution. Which, yes, makes just as much sense as not believing in gravity or the speed of light.
Darwin advanced a theory; like all theories, it changed a little under scrutiny; genetic sequencing has proved it true
Granted, there are still mild disagreements of the particulars, but scientific arguments over evolution are like two guys at a car show arguing over whether a car is hot rod red or fire engine red; neither of them is saying it isn't a 67 Mustang.
All the facepalming over people rejecting evolution is useless. If you have someone who refuses to gain a basic understanding of the concept, there's no point in trying to educate them. I spent a couple years wherein I would trade creationist literature for evolutionary texts with religious friends. Invariably, I would read a bunch of crap (The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves the Christian God!) and when I asked what they thought of the book I lent them would get a response of, "Yeah, well, I didn't really get into it, so never actually read it." Happened at least five times.
Just give up, realize that some people are happier ignorant, so will refuse to learn and try not to let it bug you come election cycles when half the candidates will claim to not believe in evolution. Which, yes, makes just as much sense as not believing in gravity or the speed of light.
No but evidence is what makes those beliefs correct. You can believe whatever you want but if you are going to argue for what you believe in as true, you need some evidence.EcoEclipse said:
Its called having a discussion, you don't have to be affected by something personally to be able to discuss it.Twilight_guy said:
Naeras said:
1: Or the only thing that they want to disprove is the same thing that science cant prove unless you build earth 2,0 and have a few billion years.
2/3:Should have made myself clearer. First of all... you had a teacher letting you do that in high school? dammit I should beat up mine for holding me back from doing awesome shit.
Back to the point. The way you use that argument is like saying I have an effect and I like this cause so that's what is true. You might be right you might be wrong but not by facts. Hence the Santa-Clause analogy. I get presents. I like the stories of Santa giving presents ergo Santa gives me presents.
Bacteria becomes resistant it evolves. We have a theory called evolution. Ergo bacteria evolving equals evolution. It is not the science of the bacteria I was trying to disprove it was your use of basically guilty-by-association logic.
The bacteria argument is not an argument for the theory of evolution but for that particular type or types of bacteria's ability to adapt through (with a lack of a better word) generations. You can use that as a proof that species through generations can adapt. But you would never, not even among the most die hard fanatics, hear anyone argue against that. Hell, religious people have been doing selective breeding for thousands of years (yeah that was a joke on inbreeding)
Most religious people aren't against that they are against the "jumps" (I know they are not jumps just had a hard time describing the evolution from one species to the next over millions and billions of years) of evolution. And those are what science just cant prove.
4: Glad you try. I hope more would do that. I am not an adversary of evolution but I cant stand it when intelligent people on both sides shoots down the other without actually try to understand their position. Not all who do not believe in evolution are an Amish-like fanatic. Sometimes they just do not have their facts straight and sometimes they do have a point but cant get their points across because they are dismissed as nut jobs.
Sorry I cant bring a scientist from the top of my head but I will send you a link when I find it.
It's simple. Some people take so much pride in their ordered little life that the very idea that they may have somehow spawned from a creature that might have flung poo as a reasonable defense truly disgusts them. Myself, if I went back a million years and saw primitive man-apes flinging poo in their spare time, I wouldn't be so much disgusted as rolling on the ground laughing, at which point I'd likely kill a grasshopper and screw evolution for everyone. Most non-educated conservative christian types see evolution as a 1 step process - chimpanzee>human. Discounting the fact that the process took place over millions of years and such a person wouldn't think the earth has been here for more than a few thousand, it was a gradual process. A chimp didn't suddenly give birth to a hairless ape one day. There were many steps. Some we know of, many we do not. We didn't suddenly appear because a benevolent force deemed it so. We rose up out of the jungle. You know that fear of something under your bed? Where do you think that comes from? It's a base survival instinct that's a holdover from our less formative years. Some people will never be willing to understand evolution, not when they watch news reports about apes going crazy and ripping peoples' faces off. How can we have possibly been related to something that could do that?
Exhibit A
Exhibit A
"indoctrinate their children"? Unless you're talking about a cult or some group that controls the flow of information and ideas, that idea doesn't hold a lot of water. Parents don't have that much control on what their children think. Just look at all the angry people on this board alone who are atheists and complain about religious parents.Fuhrlock said:
As for issues when it comes to politics... I'd like to point out that both sides in the argument believe that they are 'right' and other side is 'wrong'. There is no divine judgment that makes either side correct. As vehemently as you stand for your opinion, they believe the opposite with the same conviction and determination. As you are crusading against ignorance, they are crusade for truth in their own eyes. The only reason you are 'right' is largely because your argument conforms to things that you hold as truths, just as theirs' does. I think that sort of thought should be used to cool people down a bit on this issue.
Aside from that, what do you care if some group of people believe different from you? The only area where it can affect you is in the issue of laws. In law, (in most of the nations that people who visit these forums are from) the majority's opinion (usually) is made into law. Unless this group of people suddenly gain some vast amount of power, or you'd like to discuss an actual event (and give this topic some substance to its otherwise undirected comments), this sounds like a undirected throw.