Why do people say that the British didn't do a thing in WW2?

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EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
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Jaythulhu said:
Why, exactly, aren't the sacrifices of the Australian or New Zealand troops sent to die by ignorant british leaders mentioned anywhere in this thread? We bled to the point of annihilation in WW2 at the hands of british foolhardiness, but we don't rate a mention? For shame, escapists. Go do your homework, and those of you who aren't american but are part of the commonwealth, the shame is doubly piled upon ye, especially with ANZAC day in less than 48 hours.
You are quite right sir, we often do forget the role the Australians and New Zealanders played in the war. We do the same with most of the commonwealth countries. The Indians made one hell of a contribution too.
You guys did great, especially in North Africa and in the pacific.
 

Kinguendo

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Apr 10, 2009
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AccursedTheory said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
Now, on to D-Day, the Americans forces nearly cost us that one on Omaha beach. By the time they had actually broken through the British, Canadian and French had already taken their day one objectives. We totally raped on D-Day.
I'm interested in how nearly losing Omaha beach was the American's fault, considering how it was one of, if not the, most heavily defended beach heads. Its also should be fair to note that the British did not reach all their targets on day one.
He said they had taken their Day One objectives... not they achieved all of their objectives on the first day.
 

Booze Zombie

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The British were holding on whilst the Yanks sat around doing bugger all until the Japanese were forced to attack them over oil and such, which is, according to my father, why an old British Millitary phrase for useless is "U.S".

Jaythulhu said:
Why, exactly, aren't the sacrifices of the Australian or New Zealand troops sent to die by ignorant british leaders mentioned anywhere in this thread? We bled to the point of annihilation in WW2 at the hands of british foolhardiness, but we don't rate a mention?
Because I thought this was a thread about British forces in general, not British controled forces?

That said, India, NZ and Aus did very well, from what I've heard.
Of course, all of us, GB, NZ, AU, India, seem to be overshadowed by the American propaganda image of them being stormtrooper killing badasses.

*Sigh*
 

Ravetastic

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Mar 22, 2010
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I'm American and I know for a fact that the British did no less than the America in the war. Anyone who fought and died in that war did just as much as the next man to contribute to victory.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well the thing is that right now anti-Americanism is on the rise especially in Europe (and even within the US) and with it is coming a lot of historical re-inventionism. A lot of brits and Europeans like to act like they could have handled WW II without needing America, and that our role was "overstated".

Strictly speaking it is true that Britan didn't "do" much except not get conquered, however it was the Brits holding out as long as they did that made it so America could get involved, rally the allies, etc... They didn't win the war, but more or less made it so there was a war. Later propaganda has made them seem more pro-active/offensive than they actually were. Mostly they managed to be a pain in the keister when it came to Germany and a good portion of Europe was trying to dig them out of their own country/cities.

The Russian contribution is another bit brought up to try and make America seem less signifigant. Simply put Russia's big claim to fame was to lose a LOT of people, and hold out getting their butts kicked every inch of the way until logistics / fighting on too many fronts caused the Nazis to lose on that front which DID change the war. The Russian Campaign can be seen more as a German mistake than a Russian success.

As far as the rest of Europe goes, it's a mixed bag. One of the reasons why there was so much propaganda in World War II, and so many lies about portable bone grinding machines, human flesh lampshades, etc.. (I've posted links here before) is that Hitler was incredibly popular throughout the world, including the US. Strictly speaking Germany didn't have that much manpower, it was other nations that chose to side with them (after perhaps a token resistance) that provided the bulk of his manpower.

The unpopular truth is that all of these resistance movements, like the one allegedly in France, are a nice fairy tale concocted after the fact, and to cover the shame of having backed the losing side. Oh sure there were patriots in most countries that didn't like Germany unifying everything, but nothing on a large scale. One of the reasons why France has a bad reputation for example is that they pretty much sold out to the Germans, and then switched sides again when the tide of war changed because basically if they didn't they were going to get invaded by the other allies on their way to Germany.

See, a lot of history is a lie designed to keep the peace. A teacher talking down Europe during World War II is probably going to be correct. It really was a giant mess down there, and the fact that Hitler (who was an international man of the year) was able to take over so many countries largely based on force of personality... well that's what was truely scary about him. Hitler was actually right about 99% of what he said, it's that 1% that was genocidal and whacked that you had to watch out for.

It's sort of like how people will try and tell you that World War II was an antiseptic war with clear cut good and evil, and we always conducted ourselves honorably. That's not true. We were extremely brutal when we fought against groups like the Volkssturm, and groups like the "Hitler Youth" didn't just evaporate because they were inconveinent. However history doesn't show an American GI "heroically" putting a bunch of kids up against a wall and shooting them, or the reality of building to building fighting in the final days when it was troops against what were largely rallied civilians (many probably just defending their homes) while the remaining Nazi leaders were dug out of their bunkers and such.

Understanding things like this is why I'm such a cynical realist.

The bottom line though is that I guess when it comes to the Brits it largely depends on how you define contribution. If they hadn't held out there never would have been a storming of the beaches.
 

JWAN

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The US decided that they didn't want to meddle in European affairs ever since we went to WWI and all we got was a bunch of revenge seeking European leaders to shut out a fair conclusion. And nowadays we get bitched at when we do analyze European affairs.
Make up your damn minds and when you reach a conclusion spit it out already.
Or make a check list that we can refer to so we don't end up with guttersnipes complaining about the sky being blue and how its probably The United State's fault.
---
Anyone who knows ANYTHING about WWII knows that the British did stuff but they couldn't hold out forever on an isolated island. They really did do a great job but unfortunately for them the Nazis just had more stuff to use against them. The German war machine was built around slamming the shit out of a single point, exploiting the weakness and moving in quickly to capture it. If you can come up with some defensive strategy to hold out against that the DoD has a position for you in Langley Virginia.
 

Grounogeos

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Mar 20, 2009
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Okay, the Allies probably would've had a harder time winning without support from the US, I'll give them that much. But if the British didn't do anything, what the hell were the Allies doing between 1939 and 1941, when the US wasn't even fucking fighting?
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

Not quite Cthulhu
May 25, 2009
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AccursedTheory said:
EMFCRACKSHOT said:
Now, on to D-Day, the Americans forces nearly cost us that one on Omaha beach. By the time they had actually broken through the British, Canadian and French had already taken their day one objectives. We totally raped on D-Day.
I'm interested in how nearly losing Omaha beach was the American's fault, considering how it was one of, if not the, most heavily defended beach heads. Its also should be fair to note that the British did not reach all their targets on day one.
Well, lets start with the fact that the americans driving the LCTs(Tank landing craft) stopped much further out than their british counterparts resulting in the american DD tanks sinking into the channel resulting in a lack of armour support on the beach. Considering it was Americas beach, it kind of was their fault. They pulled through in the end though, guess thats all that really matters. It should also be pointed out that the americans took Utah beach with fewer than 200 casualties.
Of course, if you look at a map of the D-Day beaches after day one, you can see that the british and canadian beach head was far larger than the American. And we took all high priority targets such as pegasus bridge and the merville bgun battery within the first few hours of the invasion
We also made the mulberry harbours. Without those the allies could not have even deployed the entire allied armies after D-Day. Of course, the americans didn't put theirs together properly so it floated out to sea and sank
 

Soviet Heavy

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Totenkopf said:
I usually summarize the whole American, British and free French forces as "western allies", so no one gets left out.
And yet you miss the Canadian supply convoys and volunteer forces.
 

Frankster

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Mar 13, 2009
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TheFacelessOne said:
Furburt said:
Really, saying that any side, other than the French, didn't do anything is just naive.
Went on and fixed that for ya.

I kid, really. But I agree with Furburt. Every side contributed to the war. Sure, perhaps in different ways and amounts, but a contribution is a contribution.

Edit: FUDGING NINJA RIGHT ABOVE ME

*sigh* My great grandfather was the french governor of one of indochine/vietnam's provinces and died a hero's death there when he refused to surrender his fort and the japanese colonel had him gutted. His body was later rescued and buried by vietnamese troops who fondly remembered him.

My grandfather after rescuing my grandma and a few other french POWs, fled to africa where he and other french joined the brits and remnants of the free french army where they fought until the wars end.

Seriously gotta love the french stereotyping on this thread and totally original humor ¬¬
 

Jamieson 90

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Mar 29, 2010
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Grounogeos said:
Okay, the Allies probably would've had a harder time winning without support from the US, I'll give them that much. But if the British didn't do anything, what the hell were the Allies doing between 1939 and 1941, when the US wasn't even fucking fighting?
This is so true, although Poland did put up a fight and France probably would have to if they were not crippled by their goverment.

After we won the battle of Britain Hitler made the one mistake that cost him the war, Do not invade Russia, seriously its suicidal.
 

Totenkopf

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Mar 2, 2010
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Soviet Heavy said:
Totenkopf said:
I usually summarize the whole American, British and free French forces as "western allies", so no one gets left out.
And yet you miss the Canadian supply convoys and volunteer forces.
I've added a something in the meantime, page 3, post 105
 

tahrey

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Sep 18, 2009
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I'm sure enough has been said on this so far... but... I once resolved to never watch Pearl Harbour because of it's seriously poor reputation on historical accuracy and all, and that even the soldiers that inspired the main character stories disowned it.

But then it came on the TV when I was half asleep and half drunk, and... yeah it was a pretty bad movie. But the two saving graces of it were showing the non-soldier side of things (the politicians, the nurses and doctors) - and how the americans were still dithering over whether to get properly involved in the european war, apart from sending over some ace pilots, until the harbour attack effectively forced their hand.

Surely it would be most diplomatic to say it was a team effort. The yanks were late to the party but still certainly played an important part. The russian side of the story is truly epic and explains why we were more than happy to have the soviets running all over germany at the end of the war. The finns... OMG. The french had the resistance and managed to hold onto quite a lot of their country in the face of the blitzkrieg even though paris fell and put the lie to the "surrender monkey" joke. And Britain (with much empire-remnants backup) held the line until the reich had done over-reaching and burning themselves out then properly put the boot in. Who was it flattened Dresden and several other industrially-important target areas? Mostly British bombers, such as the Lancaster (with much appreciated backup from B27s and the like, but we had - and lost - thousands of the birds). Not to mention all the hurris, spits, chieftans, and endless dead tommies.

Methinks some icelandic guy (and I'll admit, I know little about their involvement in the war... but their population isn't huge) is bitter at the UK for some reason. Possibly he had a lot invested in the offshore banking industry pre-crash...
 

freakonaleash

Wheat field gazer
Jan 3, 2009
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the stonker said:
Simple question in fact I was in history today learning about WW2 and my teacher said that the british didn't do a thing and that the americans oh the bloody americans held up everything defending the land.
For when I read the book then it was mostly in Russia and the russians did most of the killing and the biggest sacrifices.
So guys I'm thinking what did the british do?

P.s.I'm a british patriot (16) who lives in Iceland so the education here for history isn't exactly great.
1. you're 16 2. You live in iceland 3. The ICELANDIC teachers are the ones teaching you not the Americans
 

ELD3RGoD

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Apr 23, 2010
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I think its so naive for people to say that Britain did nothing. The British were one of the more decisive forces in the whole thing as they were fighting to regain France, Belgium and North Africa on their own until Russia got 'betrayed' and America got bombed by the Japanese at Pearl Harbour.

Correct me if im wrong but British Tank Crews were much more trained than their American counterparts due to experience and without helping each other, things would have been very different in the North-Africa campaign which is apparently one of the turning points of the war.

I think the losses sustained by all sides should be respected as America lost many lives in the Pacific campaign as well as the D-day invasions, as did the British, the Russians, The normal German Soldiers and all the other countries like Finland, China and Italy.

I think its sick that some people can have an opinion saying that one country did nothing when they all did something.
 

DefunctTheory

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Mar 30, 2010
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EMFCRACKSHOT said:
Touche (Eww, a French word).

ELD3RGoD said:
Correct me if im wrong but British Tank Crews were much more trained than their American counterparts due to experience and without helping each other, things would have been very different in the North-Africa campaign which is apparently one of the turning points of the war.
At the beginning they were. It didn't help that American tanks were built for ease of manufactoring, not performance. By the end of the war though, American tankers had gotten really creative and were overcoming the faults in their tanks.
 

Ironic Pirate

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May 21, 2009
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Britain was very helpful, it's just that the US helped with the "Big Push" and, to put it in terms appropriate for this section of the forum, stole the kill from Britain, leaving them with only an assist.

Russia was the most imporant though. They were fighting 14 times as many troops as the other nations combined. Imagine if them AND the Russians army were fighting the Allies. And if Hitler died around 1942, so that someone would go ahead with operation Sealion (something like that) to invade Britain.
 

tahrey

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Sep 18, 2009
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"couldn't hold out forever on this isolated island"? I'm not so sure about that. A lot of our strength was based on trading, yes, but the industrial revolution kicked off on domestic material. We had - still have, but shut down - coal and iron mines with plenty of material left in them, managed to largely turn over to fully domestic food supply, and germany wasn't exactly in a good state either. Not to mention they were running out of one of the most important resources - soldiers...
 

rorymclean12

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Apr 2, 2009
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the british did loads the americans (fucking yanks) only thought they did alot yes they did help us but us and the russians did the most, also its starting to get really fucking annoying with every war film or program showing the americans thrust there nuts in the nazis face and making the british look like pussies btw im scottish we were called crazy women from hell my the nazis because of are kilts if thats not better than everything the americans did then i dont know what is... p.s i am still thankful for every man and women who died brits americans what have you... also the germans they were tecnicly just defending there country its the members of the nazis who are the evil basterds.
 

tahrey

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Sep 18, 2009
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Ironic Pirate said:
Britain was very helpful, it's just that the US helped with the "Big Push" and, to put it in terms appropriate for this section of the forum, stole the kill from Britain, leaving them with only an assist.
Just because you kill-steal, doesn't mean that the guy you stole from did nothing though!

Russia was the most imporant though. They were fighting 14 times as many troops as the other nations combined. Imagine if them AND the Russians army were fighting the Allies. And if Hitler died around 1942, so that someone would go ahead with operation Sealion (something like that) to invade Britain.
Oh stop - you're gonna make me go dig out the old P-200 MMX from the cupboard and find what I did with my C&C Red Alert CDROM :D