Why do people seem to think Gamepads are better than KB+M?

[elvor0]

Even the matter of KB+M for shooters isn't, not really. I mean you may /prefer/ using a pad, which is fine, but the amount of fine and precise movement you get with a mouse over a stick isn't something debatable.

Especially not when the person making the argument can't use the thing he's making an argument against. Just to make it clear, almost all shooters on consoles have a slight to massive (Halo 3 I'm looking at you) degree of auto aim. If the pad was so SUPERIOR, why does it need crutches, exactly? If nothing else, explain that one.

Just a wee point, for yourself and the guys throwing the word "objective" around, for me the superior control is the one i'm going to have the most fun using. For something like a MOBA where competitiveness is part of the fun of the game, then i'd say yeah, KB + M. For things like shooters, sometimes the pad is superior when i'm just playing to relax for completely subjective things such as comfort, which completely override for me whether or not i'm using auto aim or whether or not i'm netting headshots every round. When i was playing the new xcom, there were times i would hook it up to my tv and just sit back with a controller, and while the movement and action selections were less precise at those times the gamepad was still "superior".

As has often been said in other topics, the idea of one thing being objectively better than another in gaming just never exists. Better will always be the more enjoyable option, and that is always subject to taste, in my opinion. That's the beauty of gaming.

Oh quite, do what you prefer and enjoy, I myself liked to plug in my pad and play XCOM with it, it is more comfortable by far. But point was that the mouse is more accurate. The dude I was quoting seemed adamant that KB+M is in no way better for any situation. The one offers superior /control/ is the one that is more accurate and thus offers better control. Whether that be aiming for shooters, or precise movement offered by sticks for platformers.

Far be it from me to tell you what you find enjoyable, because that's totally subjective, but on the subject of objectivity, the mouse+KB offers superior control for MOBAs, 4X, RTS, WoW-style MMOs (in most cases, *cough* DC "carpel tunnel" Universe Online *cough*) and of course shooters. But of course, the pad is far better for games like Dark Souls/Hack n Slashers, Racing Games, Fighting Games and Platformers.

 

[andago]

double post

 

[andago]

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Oh quite, do what you prefer and enjoy, I myself liked to plug in my pad and play XCOM with it, it is more comfortable by far. But point was that the mouse is more accurate. The dude I was quoting seemed adamant that KB+M is in no way better for any situation. The one offers superior /control/ is the one that is more accurate and thus offers better control. Whether that be aiming for shooters, or precise movement offered by sticks for platformers.

Far be it from me to tell you what you find enjoyable, because that's totally subjective, but on the subject of objectivity, the mouse+KB offers superior control for MOBAs, 4X, RTS, WoW-style MMOs (in most cases) and of course shooters. But of course, the pad is far better for games like Dark Souls/Hack n Slashers, Racing Games, Fighting Games and Platformers.

Sorry, I do realise that guy you were quoting does seem severely biased, if not just bizarrely contradicting general wisdom about control methods. Good idea about saying something is superior in terms of the control it allows, instead of just 'superior', I totally agree with you on these points.

 

[DoPo]

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Oh quite, do what you prefer and enjoy, I myself liked to plug in my pad and play XCOM with it, it is more comfortable by far. But point was that the mouse is more accurate. The dude I was quoting seemed adamant that KB+M is in no way better for any situation. The one offers superior /control/ is the one that is more accurate and thus offers better control. Whether that be aiming for shooters, or precise movement offered by sticks for platformers.

Far be it from me to tell you what you find enjoyable, because that's totally subjective, but on the subject of objectivity, the mouse+KB offers superior control for MOBAs, 4X, RTS, WoW-style MMOs (in most cases) and of course shooters. But of course, the pad is far better for games like Dark Souls/Hack n Slashers, Racing Games, Fighting Games and Platformers.

Sorry, I do realise that guy you were quoting does seem severely biased, if not just bizarrely contradicting general wisdom about control methods. Good idea about saying something is superior in terms of the control it allows, instead of just 'superior', I totally agree with you on these points.

What other measure would there be for if something is better than "is it better at what it is supposed to do"? I may prefer to comb my hair with a fork but that would have no impact on whether or not the comb or the fork is better for the task.

But FPS games are objectively better on KB+M than controllers. Anyone who argues this is objectively wrong.

So many people in this thread have no idea what "objectively" means.

It's very likely someone can put time and effort into learning both control schemes and end up having better performance on a controller.

Well, nobody has managed that. It's been proven time and time again, too (several videos in this thread show it too). And it is actually quite obvious that cannot be the case as a controller does not allow as fine 2D motion input as a mouse - what is what a mouse is deigned for. So yes, actually one could indeed call it objective that a mouse is better for aiming.

 

[Teh_Moose]

It depends on what you're playing at that moment. If you're playing something like C&C, KB+M will be better. playing the Batman Arkham games, Gamepad is better. but this is all just, like, my opinion, man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

 

[andago]

What other measure would there be for if something is better than "is it better at what it is supposed to do"? I may prefer to comb my hair with a fork but that would have no impact on whether or not the comb or the fork is better for the task.

Sorry if I didn't explain it well before. For me the difference is that if I use a comb it's because I want my hair styled, so whatever tool styles it the best, is the best one to use to use. If I play computer games it's to have fun, so whichever tool lets me enjoy the game the most is the best. Here, what it's "supposed to do" is allow me to have fun playing a game, NOT to necessarily give me the most precise input method.

Like I said, for some people enjoyment comes from being the best at the game, and in highly competitive games there's going to be more overlap between the most enjoyable input method and the one that gives the most precise control. Sometimes for me though even when playing solo, even playing an FPS, I just want to sit back and enjoy the spectacle and not try and nail every shot, and so in that case for me the 'better' input method is going to be a gamepad.

EDIT:

Well, nobody has managed that. It's been proven time and time again, too (several videos in this thread show it too). And it is actually quite obvious that cannot be the case as a controller does not allow as fine 2D motion input as a mouse - what is what a mouse is deigned for. So yes, actually one could indeed call it objective that a mouse is better for aiming.

Yes! Exactly, you could say that objectively the mouse is better for aiming, but that doesn't make it objectively the better control method unless the only reason you play an FPS is to continually aim shots the quickest and most precise possible, which I'm saying isn't compulsory to still enjoy the game.

 

[Lieju]

I find it more hilarious how people still claim that controllers are equal to or better than m/kb. Just watch these two videos that absolutely proves that players with m/kb have a HUGE advantage over players that use controllers. It's two Quake Live matches that proves without a shadow of a doubt that controllers can't keep up with players who use m/kb. The second video is so brutal with the constant humiliations... makes my pc elitism on the inside cry out with pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJN1VvfHO4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF5hqdc510g

I'm sorry, but this is definitive proof by using the most skilled FPS in shooter history that controllers are garbage compared to M/KB. Except for platformers and Fighters.

So, they make the games easier?
Why is this necessarily a good thing?

I get that if you are competing in a game where everyone can use either input-method, then you want to have that edge, it makes sense to use the one that makes the game easier, but it depends on what you want from the game.

Many, if not most answers in this thread are not about the competitive scene, they are about personal preference.

You can't just say that making the game easier is always the best choice. If you're playing single-player, (or a multiplayer where everyone uses the same type of control-scheme) then that argument doesn't really hold water.

It's a matter of personal preference and how the game is designed.

 

[ngl42398]

But FPS games are objectively better on KB+M than controllers. Anyone who argues this is objectively wrong.

So many people in this thread have no idea what "objectively" means.

It's very likely someone can put time and effort into learning both control schemes and end up having better performance on a controller.

Oh, but that's where you're wrong. I know exactly what "objectively" means. If you average out all performance and were to, say, have a team composed of the world's best Halo 1 Xbox players play against a team of the world's best Halo 1 PC players, and they each played using their respective input methods, the PC players would have an advantage. Controllers lack the finesse and preciseness that a Mouse and Keyboard gives you in a first person shooter. Why does Call of Duty have aim-assist on consoles? Why does Quake 1 not play nearly as well on a controller? Because the KB+M is simply better.

 

[AT God]

They both have their uses and whichever one you use more you will be better with. The fact that people adapt makes comparing the two tricky, I think the best way to compare the two would be to test people who had no experience with either.

My own subjective experience is that people can make almost any game work on the keyboard to a degree, I played through Resident Evil 4 on PC before they rereleased it so I literally aimed with the arrow keys and it was awful at first, eventually I was able to beat the game on normal without much hassle. Had I been able to use a mouse, I could have probably beat harder modes of the game but I think people can in general make keyboard work for almost any game, even ones that highly recommend gamepads.

I do think that there are limitations to both KBM and gamepad that cannot be overcome no matter how much practice. On the KBM side, mouse control of FPS games is more precise than gamepad, joysticks only move so far and mouses can be moved much further, for instance at my sensitivity, if I slide my mouse from 1 side of my mousepad to the other, I spin 3 times in most FPS games, and it takes less than a second. Setting sensitivity to replicate that on a gamepad would make precision aiming much less accurate. Other KBM advantages are mouse usage for RTS games and the additional bindable keys available on keyboards, although more handy than advantageous.

Gamepads on the other hand offer better control of movement because most KBM games use keys to move, and keys are binary, on or off, unlike joysticks which can be tilted slightly for slower movements or better turns. I personally can beat most games fine with keyboard, even racing games, but it took a long time to learn how to tap keys correctly to perform tighter turns. Gamepads are also nice because they are more mobile, keyboards and mice need flat surfaces for precise movements, gamepads do not.

Basically, anyone who says "KBM or Gamepads are better" is wrong because each one has their own merits. A more specific statement could be seen as correct but its all very subjective. If I only played racing games, gamepads would be better than KBM, but that would only be true for me and not anyone else.

 

[Artaneius]

I find it more hilarious how people still claim that controllers are equal to or better than m/kb. Just watch these two videos that absolutely proves that players with m/kb have a HUGE advantage over players that use controllers. It's two Quake Live matches that proves without a shadow of a doubt that controllers can't keep up with players who use m/kb. The second video is so brutal with the constant humiliations... makes my pc elitism on the inside cry out with pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJN1VvfHO4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF5hqdc510g

I'm sorry, but this is definitive proof by using the most skilled FPS in shooter history that controllers are garbage compared to M/KB. Except for platformers and Fighters.

So, they make the games easier?
Why is this necessarily a good thing?

I get that if you are competing in a game where everyone can use either input-method, then you want to have that edge, it makes sense to use the one that makes the game easier, but it depends on what you want from the game.

Many, if not most answers in this thread are not about the competitive scene, they are about personal preference.

You can't just say that making the game easier is always the best choice. If you're playing single-player, (or a multiplayer where everyone uses the same type of control-scheme) then that argument doesn't really hold water.

It's a matter of personal preference and how the game is designed.

Ok, when your playing online with a game that supports both controller and kb/m, the controller players are going to get dominated every single time. Microsoft performed a test a couple years ago and took pro players from the competitive console communities (Halo, CoD, and Gears) and competitive PC communities (Quake, CS, and UT) to see if m/kb really had a huge advantage over controllers. They used PC version of Halo, Star Wars Battlefront 2, and Quake Wars. The pros using controllers lost every single game and the highest amount of kills the team had as a whole was like 10 for all the games they played. Thus the idea to combine Xbox Live and Windows Live communities was scrapped because those who m/kb are going to win by a lot every single time.

Yes, it's a matter of personal preference in terms of single player games. But in online games, I don't think you would have much fun if your losing every single game because it you "feel better" with a controller. I'm sorry, but you would either quit the game or use kb/m

And the funny thing is these were ACTUAL pros. Tsquared and Walshy were part of the console team and they got absolutely DESTROYED.

 

[Lieju]

Ok, when your playing online with a game that supports both controller and kb/m, the controller players are going to get dominated every single time. Microsoft performed a test a couple years ago and took pro players from the competitive console communities (Halo, CoD, and Gears) and competitive PC communities (Quake, CS, and UT) to see if m/kb really had a huge advantage over controllers. They used PC version of Halo, Star Wars Battlefront 2, and Quake Wars. The pros using controllers lost every single game and the highest amount of kills the team had as a whole was like 10 for all the games they played. Thus the idea to combine Xbox Live and Windows Live communities was scrapped because those who m/kb are going to win by a lot every single time.

And considering I don't play online multiplayer FPS's I don't care.

Yes, it's a matter of personal preference in terms of single player games. But in online games, I don't think you would have much fun if your losing every single game because it you "feel better" with a controller. I'm sorry, but you would either quit the game or use kb/m

That's then an argument for keeping the communities separate, that's all.

 

[DoPo]

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Well, nobody has managed that. It's been proven time and time again, too (several videos in this thread show it too). And it is actually quite obvious that cannot be the case as a controller does not allow as fine 2D motion input as a mouse - what is what a mouse is deigned for. So yes, actually one could indeed call it objective that a mouse is better for aiming.

Yes! Exactly, you could say that objectively the mouse is better for aiming, but that doesn't make it objectively the better control method unless the only reason you play an FPS is to continually aim shots the quickest and most precise possible, which I'm saying isn't compulsory to still enjoy the game.

Again, speaking for control method, that implies which is better for control. You are attributing the wrong meaning to the word - you can like either, it doesn't need to be tied to the merits of the input, or the form or the the colour or how warm/cold it feels to the touch or whatever. The preference is different than the main function, and the main function is inpu. Therefore deviating this to anything else makes little sense. The "better" control method is not meant to represent "what I prefer".

Here is an example - I like playing Worms - I've played most of the versions of 2D (combat) Worms games. Most recently, the most I've played is the Android version of Worms Armageddon[footnote]actually bizarrely named, as it's actually Reloaded, not at all Armageddon[/footnote]. Now, any other input than the touch screen is better - it's more accurate, it's faster to work with, and the rest don't just occasionally do weird stuff instead of what you tell it to. And yet I like playing the mobile version because it's just so nice to do it in my bed. So there you go - the distinction between better as a method and what I better like.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Generally the big deciding factor that pushes me towards consoles/controls, is simply the refinement of controls. With a controller I have everything mapped to the shape of my hands with at least 18 buttons at the very most, with a keyboard I have a flat plane which I have to rest my hands in a weird position to use effectively with at least 90 potential buttons.

I was never good at remembering combos or any sort of fighter so trying to remembered what every key does is a mind fuck, but then not every game uses every key, but then I have to rest my hands in such a way that its the pinnacle of discomfort and occasionally I'll end of mashing the wrong key.

That's certainly a skill and a mindset I will never possess, and frankly the controller works more then fine for me to enjoy a game. I recently got a trackball mouse and it is absolute bliss for me to use compared to your standard mouse

 

[C14N]

It depends on the game. For anything involving shooting or top-down strategy there's no competition, Keyboard and Mouse all the way. Racing games are dreadful on keyboard though since you can't apply a gentle touch to turning or accelerating. Any game that involves fighting like DmC or Batman Arkham Asylum is also very awkward with a keyboard.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

Uhmm... I wasn't aware that people actually thought that, quite the opposite in fact.

Controllers are only superior for games that are designed specifically for them and even then game menus are horribly convoluted and messy.

Otherwise it's mouse and keyboard.

Why? Because controllers are a solution to play games from the comfort of your lazy sofa. Mouse and keyboard simply allows for more and detailed input.

 

[RavingSturm]

Depends on the game imho. For shooting games nothing beats the precision of the mouse, for fighting games controller or joystick is the way to go. Having some RSI myself I enjoy using a controller to catch a break.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Because for some people, like me, they are.

"Why does/do _________ think/thinks that _________ is are better?" Fill in the blanks however you like, the answer is all the same:

Taste and preference.

 

[CheeksMcGraw]

Dear OP,

It's call preference. Deal with it.

-Cheeks

 

[MrBaskerville]

Depends on the game, i wouldn't want to play Devil May Cry or Street Fighter with a keyboard and mouse, it would be a nightmare!