why do people still blame video games for real-world violence?
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I knew all feminists were rich for a reason.Karadalis said:
I'm largely inclined to agree. Interestingly enough, I think the primary reason (not sole) for saying games have no effect on violence is the same as people blaming games for violence: that people like simple, easy answers. They want things done fast, simple, and with little or no effort.Ubiquitous Duck said:
Granted, I always hate saying that I do think games CAN be a factor, because of one of the other reasons: the zealots making the proclamations usually take evidence that says there is or may be a correlation between violent people and violent media and then jump straight to IT CAUSES VIOLENCE!
There are other factors, too, because it's a nuanced issue. I think those are the most relevant to the discussion here, but not so much a complete summary.
I honestly think a large part of it is that blaming something that you don't understand for the ills of the world (because it's easy to understand that way) is more comforting than just admitting that life is one big game of crapshoot and that lots of bad things can happen for lots of complex reasons, and that the world doesn't have simple answers to anything, especially when you have incomplete understanding of what's going on.clint5254 said:
Case in point: gun control would put a big dent in gun violence, but would it put an end to *violence* itself? Not unless you start working on the factors that feed into the cause of violence in the first place. Then the solutions to THOSE problems would lead to other problems to be addressed...well, you see my point.
Because Video Games are still a new medium and haven't matured as quickly as say, movies have since their conception.
And also because of the interactivity element, immersing yourself in a fantasy through reading or watching is one thing, but being the character who causes the murder or other bad things can be a worrying thought to some people (at least to those who think that people, and even kids can't differentiate between reality and fantasy, when they most certainly can).
Not to mention that when video games first came out, they were insanely popular amongst kids (and still are to this day, but the key demographic, or rather the one under the spotlight has become teenagers) so people tend to jump to conclusions, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
With teenagers, people think doubly of this because of how unpredictable they seem to the masses, and also because it is a genuine period of life that is rife with ambiguity, uncertainty in life, yourself, others etc. not to mention the emotional fluctuations caused by hormones.
What we really need if we want people to not necessarily respect games(because I know: why should we go out of our way to earn respect from people who are automatically biased against us) but to end such discussion is for games to become more human, in a way: seriousness and bleakness doesn't necessarily correlate into greatness or recognition (Max Payne 3, for eg), if a game were to come along, that not only was well written, had a great story of multiple levels with mechanics that complimented and drove the story forward, and it sold well(to be recognised by mass media), then perhaps then it would stop this nonsense.
What I am saying is we need a poster game to represent gaming: whenever people would complain that movies cause violence, people referrence Citizen Kane, or the Godfather, or when music is (supposedly)causing violence or when it cites negative messages, people bring up the good in music(or rather its genre, so for rap, someone like Akala, with rock, The Beatles, etc.).
Gaming does not have a good exemplar in the public eye, the only ones we have are Mario and Call of Duty: essentially a simple, cartoony and fun distraction that easily appeals to kids(from the layman's perspective) and a game where the story is about all "those dirty foreign countries having it out for the good ol' US of A", with a multiplayer populated mostly by petulant children with at best laissez-faire parenting.
We will get there eventually, but until we do, we might as well just stop caring when games get blamed for violence, as it is and should be meaningless white noise of hatred to us.
[small]I know I certainly stopped caring about it[/small]
And also because of the interactivity element, immersing yourself in a fantasy through reading or watching is one thing, but being the character who causes the murder or other bad things can be a worrying thought to some people (at least to those who think that people, and even kids can't differentiate between reality and fantasy, when they most certainly can).
Not to mention that when video games first came out, they were insanely popular amongst kids (and still are to this day, but the key demographic, or rather the one under the spotlight has become teenagers) so people tend to jump to conclusions, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
With teenagers, people think doubly of this because of how unpredictable they seem to the masses, and also because it is a genuine period of life that is rife with ambiguity, uncertainty in life, yourself, others etc. not to mention the emotional fluctuations caused by hormones.
What we really need if we want people to not necessarily respect games(because I know: why should we go out of our way to earn respect from people who are automatically biased against us) but to end such discussion is for games to become more human, in a way: seriousness and bleakness doesn't necessarily correlate into greatness or recognition (Max Payne 3, for eg), if a game were to come along, that not only was well written, had a great story of multiple levels with mechanics that complimented and drove the story forward, and it sold well(to be recognised by mass media), then perhaps then it would stop this nonsense.
What I am saying is we need a poster game to represent gaming: whenever people would complain that movies cause violence, people referrence Citizen Kane, or the Godfather, or when music is (supposedly)causing violence or when it cites negative messages, people bring up the good in music(or rather its genre, so for rap, someone like Akala, with rock, The Beatles, etc.).
Gaming does not have a good exemplar in the public eye, the only ones we have are Mario and Call of Duty: essentially a simple, cartoony and fun distraction that easily appeals to kids(from the layman's perspective) and a game where the story is about all "those dirty foreign countries having it out for the good ol' US of A", with a multiplayer populated mostly by petulant children with at best laissez-faire parenting.
We will get there eventually, but until we do, we might as well just stop caring when games get blamed for violence, as it is and should be meaningless white noise of hatred to us.
[small]I know I certainly stopped caring about it[/small]
Because in a world where a game that glorifies literally tearing your opponents in half is the most popular fighting game of all time, it's not hard to believe that society isn't going crazy.
I don't think games are totally to blame, but we really shouldn't pretend that all this violence in our favorite medium is going to have a positive outcome.
I don't think games are totally to blame, but we really shouldn't pretend that all this violence in our favorite medium is going to have a positive outcome.
At work, searching Google for D&D things (eg. "warlock 3.5ed invocations") is blocked by our web filter, categorised as "Occult/Witchcraft".wombat_of_war said:
On topic, I couldn't say, hand on heart, that there aren't games with either needless or intentionally graphic violence. Mortal Kombat for one thing has always glorified violence. Manhunt is also pretty graphic in its way, if not so gory. If they were movies, they wouldn't get a cinema release and I would understand why.
One issue is that "video games" are lumped together as one mass media. The same store that sells Cooking Mama will also sell Mortal Kombat, which you likely wouldn't see with movies in a high street DVD store. They don't separate out the niche or adult stuff from the kids games, to use extreme opposites. Another issue is parents attitudes (changing slowly as now first-generation gamers are parents themselves) toward adult games. GTA5 is not even remotely suitable for young children, nor are the examples above but parents buy their kids the latest game which likely to them is just "another game" as it were.
As a gamer, I know full well that games do not turn people violent. I also resent the non-stop discussion about females in games as though by buying/playing them I'm also a sexist, or turning into one. I know the difference between escapism and entertainment and the real world. But in the same way I wouldn't want my 4 year old nephew to watch a violent or gory action film, or read a book to him containing sex, vulgarity or violence, I similarly wouldn't want him watching me play GTA5 (though he does, forcing me to turn off the sound and avoid particular aspects of gameplay), Skyrim or the like.
Ultimately people who proclaim that games "cause" violence need to understand the meaning of the word. There's a difference between correlation and causation. The former (in the case of games) is tenuous and a stretch at best, the latter entirely non-existent.
One issue is that "video games" are lumped together as one mass media. The same store that sells Cooking Mama will also sell Mortal Kombat, which you likely wouldn't see with movies in a high street DVD store. They don't separate out the niche or adult stuff from the kids games, to use extreme opposites. Another issue is parents attitudes (changing slowly as now first-generation gamers are parents themselves) toward adult games. GTA5 is not even remotely suitable for young children, nor are the examples above but parents buy their kids the latest game which likely to them is just "another game" as it were.
As a gamer, I know full well that games do not turn people violent. I also resent the non-stop discussion about females in games as though by buying/playing them I'm also a sexist, or turning into one. I know the difference between escapism and entertainment and the real world. But in the same way I wouldn't want my 4 year old nephew to watch a violent or gory action film, or read a book to him containing sex, vulgarity or violence, I similarly wouldn't want him watching me play GTA5 (though he does, forcing me to turn off the sound and avoid particular aspects of gameplay), Skyrim or the like.
Ultimately people who proclaim that games "cause" violence need to understand the meaning of the word. There's a difference between correlation and causation. The former (in the case of games) is tenuous and a stretch at best, the latter entirely non-existent.
Blaming a scapegoat means nobody has to acknowledge a harsh reality where not everyone in this perfect little world is perfect.
Blaming video games is free. Treating mental health issues and locking up sociopaths costs money.
That is the reason normal people do it and the reason the powers that be do it.
Blaming video games is free. Treating mental health issues and locking up sociopaths costs money.
That is the reason normal people do it and the reason the powers that be do it.
So they don't have to face any actual thought, or thinking, "what logical thing can I pin this on?"
Did you know that here's still a village in Scotland, where the people burn "witches" at a stand? Well, yeah. Therapists and psychologists who say that video games are the root of a lot of violence, are exactly those people.
"An interesting new protoscience has been recently discovered!"
"Let's burn those people who practise it because it frightens me!"
"Yah!"
It's also like how a lot of school shootings are triggered by bullying or parental abuse. The media blames it on rock, too much sugar consumptions, Butch Hartman, or whatever they want to antagonise that week.
Did you know that here's still a village in Scotland, where the people burn "witches" at a stand? Well, yeah. Therapists and psychologists who say that video games are the root of a lot of violence, are exactly those people.
"An interesting new protoscience has been recently discovered!"
"Let's burn those people who practise it because it frightens me!"
"Yah!"
It's also like how a lot of school shootings are triggered by bullying or parental abuse. The media blames it on rock, too much sugar consumptions, Butch Hartman, or whatever they want to antagonise that week.
People love scapegoats when you ook at history this should not be the least bit shocking. Book burnings, banning types of music, andthe list goes on and on... Nothing has changed much since thestart of human society and that is the sad truth even with the more knowledge we have gain ovr the centuries even in the most well educated societies you still can find this garbage going about. People tnd to try to simplify thingsor avoid the rea problems if they feel it may be their fault be it bad parenting, mental health, political gains, religious gain, and etc. Fear is a powerful tool used by the smarter individual to manipulate the sheep that rather than learn the truth bask in simple ignorance. Many people can't seem to even grasp the tuth and rather grasp at something that is more aking to what they think is truth and then defend it no matter anyone that shows evidence that would contradict their beliefs because that would mean all that time they spent was a lie.clint5254 said: