Why do people think Socialism is Evil

[Thanatos34]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

That's actually the reason it never works on a large scale. It's only works in a small comunity where religion holds it together.

That is a good point. It just might work if it is on a small scale, and everyone is of the same mindset.

We could start a community and try it.

 

[Crowser]

'Cause it ain't 'merican!
ingrate...

 

[ti_red]

I believe i chimed into this conversation a little late, and I could be wrong, its been a while, but I was under the impression that under Socialism, everyone gets paid the same regardless of job description. Doctors get paid the same as Landscapers. In this scenario, people can make the same amount of money mowing lawns than any other profession, people will not strive to do their best in the work force, and everything, including services and products, will be mediocre at best because they do not need to strive to do better. They are already getting paid no matter how much effort they put in. Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong? This is very interesting.

 

[Thanatos34]

errrmm.... I live in a so called socialist country and it's all going to hell.
Although we really don't have any real sort of socialism, as usual politicians just got greedy and there was simply a redistribution of power, those who were now rich are now getting poorer by the day and "vice-versa" (poor people are still pretty poor but a lot of the people rooting for the president are getting rich by being corrupt)

What country is this, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Thanatos34]

I believe i chimed into this conversation a little late, and I could be wrong, its been a while, but I was under the impression that under Socialism, everyone gets paid the same regardless of job description. Doctors get paid the same as Landscapers. In this scenario, people can make the same amount of money mowing lawns than any other profession, people will not strive to do their best in the work force, and everything, including services and products, will be mediocre at best because they do not need to strive to do better. They are already getting paid no matter how much effort they put in. Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong? This is very interesting.

At the very, very extreme form, the end of Socialism, I believe this is the case. I don't think anyone actually wants this in our society, though.

 

[n64link]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

That's actually the reason it never works on a large scale. It's only works in a small comunity where religion holds it together.

That is a good point. It just might work if it is on a small scale, and everyone is of the same mindset.

We could start a community and try it.

If you can find a bunch of people you can trust, go for it. I've only seen it work with, Ahmish communities in th eloong run. I would have said cult aswell, but long run emplies that they don't kill them selves off before they can procreate.

 

[Low Key]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

So you want to force privately owned hospitals to take anyone who shows up at their door and treat them for free?

Bless you, child, but that is so naive it is cute. That's just not feasible. Where are you going to get the money to do this?

I guess the Hippocratic oath means nothing compared to the Almighty Dollar? Oh well that is what happens you take the Classist, Elitist Viewpoint that Healthcare is a Privilege and not a Right. Let them eat cake they said in France before Misseur Guillotine found them.

So doctors aren't allowed to make a living? Where is the line drawn between those who get free health care and those who have to pay? And how do we get those who receive free health care the motivation to do something about their financial laziness so they can one day afford medical bills on their own?

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I believe i chimed into this conversation a little late, and I could be wrong, its been a while, but I was under the impression that under Socialism, everyone gets paid the same regardless of job description. Doctors get paid the same as Landscapers. In this scenario, people can make the same amount of money mowing lawns than any other profession, people will not strive to do their best in the work force, and everything, including services and products, will be mediocre at best because they do not need to strive to do better. They are already getting paid no matter how much effort they put in. Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong? This is very interesting.

It is neither Socialist nor Marxist no one that I know of has ever called for an flat pay grade except for capitalist who make up lies about the other two systems. In fact Engels goes into a very good review of how a Communist pay system would work in Wage Labour and Capital.

 

[uhgungawa]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

That's actually the reason it never works on a large scale. It's only works in a small comunity where religion holds it together.

And even thoses are far and few between without turning into cults

 

[Thanatos34]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.

According to this, unless the hospital does not accept Medicare, it must treat the patient, if a "prudent" person believes the person must be examined or treated. (Read: If they have a dangerous condition/problem/disease.)

http://www.familiesusa.org/issues/private-insurance/legal-rights/emtala.html

 

[ZZ-Tops89]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.

I checked the text of EMTALA. It's pretty convoluted, but they basically say that any hospital that receives government money from Medicare is "participating" in EMTALA. This basically includes all public and private hospitals.

EDIT: In light of the clearer explanation that agrees with the text of the law, the answer is, yes, even inner-city hospitals can't turn people away.

 

[n64link]

When you get right down to it Marxism, and Socialism seem good on paper. But they fall apart when you add the Human equation into the mix. We want to be and/or get better, we are greedy, needy, and competitive by nature. This makes these philosophies a non working model for a social climate

But then again I'm just full of it

That's actually the reason it never works on a large scale. It's only works in a small comunity where religion holds it together.

nd even thoses are far and few between without turning into cults

I'm just posting to see if you will catch it a few post up before I post this.

Man this board moves fast!

 

[Thanatos34]

I believe i chimed into this conversation a little late, and I could be wrong, its been a while, but I was under the impression that under Socialism, everyone gets paid the same regardless of job description. Doctors get paid the same as Landscapers. In this scenario, people can make the same amount of money mowing lawns than any other profession, people will not strive to do their best in the work force, and everything, including services and products, will be mediocre at best because they do not need to strive to do better. They are already getting paid no matter how much effort they put in. Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong? This is very interesting.

It is neither Socialist nor Marxist no one that I know of has ever called for an flat pay grade except for capitalist who make up lies about the other two systems. In fact Engels goes into a very good review of how a Communist pay system would work in Wage Labour and Capital.

The Socialist might claim that it doesn't lead to this, but it is the end philosophy of spreading the wealth around. A capitalist system would never lead to this, it is against everything a capitalist stands for.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.

I checked the text of EMTALA. It's pretty convoluted, but they basically say that any hospital that receives government money from Medicare is "participating" in EMTALA. This basically includes all public and private hospitals.

Which basically means don't take government and you can shaft anyone you want. Which I believe is the case in Atlanta where hospitals stopped taking medicare so they could turn away poor blacks.

 

[Thanatos34]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.

I checked the text of EMTALA. It's pretty convoluted, but they basically say that any hospital that receives government money from Medicare is "participating" in EMTALA. This basically includes all public and private hospitals.

EDIT: In light of the clearer explanation that agrees with the text of the law, the answer is, yes, even inner-city hospitals can't turn people away.

They cannot turn them away for a serious issue, one that a "prudent" person deems necessary to be treated. You come in with a snuffy nose, and they can turn you away.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Britain is technically "Socialist", what with the NHS... we're still here.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

It's communism that people think is evil.
I personally like socialism, Canada is kindof socialist and France is very socialist and also very sucessful. So where's the problem?

I don't like the idea of walking into a baker's and having to greet everyone just because I walked into a store. I like to keep myself to myself, the thought of being that open and friendly with everyone scares me...

 

[Anomynous 167]

Me personally, Because I bust my ass every day for just enough money to pay my bills and eat. **** giveing to the "needy" I've lived around "needy" people all of my life, They don't work, don't want to work, wait for that govrnmet check, spend it on booze or drugs, oh wait. does begging cout as work? Now there are some exceptions, very few, that I've seen. But most are lazy and become complaciant in their poverty.

To those who support socilism, If you had 2 houses and I was homeless would you give me one?

Since I'm a capitalist, I guess that question doesn't apply to me. But I'll answer anyways.

I'd give you a third of a house. On the condition that you get a job in six months, and pay a little fee, (About a fifth of the house's value.) and stay away from my anti commy barracks.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

I believe i chimed into this conversation a little late, and I could be wrong, its been a while, but I was under the impression that under Socialism, everyone gets paid the same regardless of job description. Doctors get paid the same as Landscapers. In this scenario, people can make the same amount of money mowing lawns than any other profession, people will not strive to do their best in the work force, and everything, including services and products, will be mediocre at best because they do not need to strive to do better. They are already getting paid no matter how much effort they put in. Can someone please correct me if i'm wrong? This is very interesting.

It is neither Socialist nor Marxist no one that I know of has ever called for an flat pay grade except for capitalist who make up lies about the other two systems. In fact Engels goes into a very good review of how a Communist pay system would work in Wage Labour and Capital.

The Socialist might claim that it doesn't lead to this, but it is the end philosophy of spreading the wealth around. A capitalist system would never lead to this, it is against everything a capitalist stands for.

Why would it lead to a flat pay scale? That is just scaremongering unless you are honestly saying the garbage collector is more important to the collective whole then a highly skilled brain surgeon. Read Wage Labour and Capital it discusses this much more thoroughly you have to have pay differences obviously because not every job is equally important to the collective but they are all important. As long as someone works they are able to reap the benefits of the whole which means they can't be a leach.

 

[Thanatos34]

Yeah socialisms absolutley horrible sucks having an nhs and seeing a doctor withing 15 minutes of calling every time or free prescriptions when a student/unemployed or free operations or free dental care if unemployed/a student how the hell have we not started eating each other yet?!?

RUN AMERICA RUN FROM THIS NIGHTMARE! /sarcasm

This made me laugh pretty hard mostly because it is sooooo stereotypical of my fellow Americans. Hell I guess you can't expect much when you have talking heads like Glenn Beck who tell everyone that healthcare is a privilege and not a right. I guess Glenn Beck should tell that to people who have had children die in childbirth since we have the highest infant mortality rate in the First World. I guess having your babies die is a privilege. Hur Hur. And for those who couldn't tell I'm being sarcastic about the last bit.

To be honest the lack of adopting certain Socialist programs is the biggest reason I am looking at leaving this country. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if one of my children died because of our shoddy medical system. I am more then willing to give up my Second Amendment Rights which I hold dear if it means I can raise children with a good education and proper medical care.

Our shoddy medical system that just gave a woman who couldn't eat, drink, or breathe without a tube in her throat a face transplant (One of the first, and the most extensive) so she can do all those things normally again? She may disagree with you.

Haha ignorance is bliss. The first face transplant was done in India with France right behind it. So you were saying?

That's why I said ONE of the first, but the most extensive. But I guess any old shoddy medical system can do that now, it's just those first timers that are up to par. And where are you expecting to find better? There's already multiple people from universal health care countries talking about 3-5 hour waits in this thread.

You should visit an inner-city American Hospital where they turn away people at ERs. 5 hour waits would be heaven. Maybe you should get out of your Ivory Tower a little and see the real America.

EMTALA legally prevents hospitals from turning people away at ERs. Interestingly, it doesn't allocae funding towards paying for emergency treatment. A lot of hospitals are actually being forced to close due to a combination of EMTALA costs and legal fees. I don't want to bombard this thread with quotes from experts, but I can back this claim up if you want me to.

Which only pertains to hospitals that are not privately owned hence why a lot of hospitals are going this route. Atlanta, Georgia is the priemer example of shafting the Inner-City by making the only available hospitals private and therefor able to turn people away. Which is one of the biggest reasons Atlanta has been in a major decline. That the government allows this loophole is disgusting but that is America.

I'm roughly 99% sure that EMTALA also applies to private hospitals, at least to some capacity. I'll have to double check that one though, and you might just be right.

It might. I have always been under the impression that Private Hospitals were able to avoid this through some loophole I would hope it is not true but with all the other loopholes in American Healthcare it wouldn't surprise me.

I checked the text of EMTALA. It's pretty convoluted, but they basically say that any hospital that receives government money from Medicare is "participating" in EMTALA. This basically includes all public and private hospitals.

Which basically means don't take government and you can shaft anyone you want. Which I believe is the case in Atlanta where hospitals stopped taking medicare so they could turn away poor blacks.

Now who's the conspiracy theorist?

Again, what exactly are you proposing? That private hospitals be forced to treat all patients for all conditions?

I don't think anyone is going to turn away someone who is dying, but what right do you have to tell a privately owned business, (yes a hospital is a business), to take a cut in their income in order to treat a stuffy nose?