Why do we only see Tolkien's elves, dwarves, and orcs in medieval fantasy, why not space?

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Yes, but who said it ever had to be sci-fi?

That's the genre, You can break with genre but you need a good reason why it's not just a "STICK THIS IN HERE FOR COOL".

Why can't we have something utterly unexplainable in something sci-fi?

See above, Fantasy/Sci-Fi actually has to make MORE sense than reality to effectively suspend disbelief. I'm sure that today you had something happen to you where you thought "That was bloody weird". But if you put that in a game/TV/book/film (without explanation), people are gonna rip it to bits for being unrealistic (Even if it really happened)

For that matter, who the hell ever said that we can't have a futuristic fantasy or a medieval sci-fi?

You can, but you really have to work at all the potential problems. Look at how many wide glaring holes there already are in Deflector Shields, Teleporters or Warp Drive. Not to mention that Fireballs wreck the Laws of Thermodynamics, Momentum, Conservation of Mass/Energy, the Theory of Relativity etc.

You want to stick Orcs in Space? Sure. But if they're no real different to Vogons, why are they Orcs at all?

If Elves can prevent Cellular Damage (Aging), then why haven't Humans harvested them for their Genes? Think Twilight for this: If Vampires have no weakness apart from sparkling, diamond hard skin and sentient spermatoza; why aren't all Werewolves/Humans caged up on show as the meal of the day?

Now, if you want to go the Spelljammer or Warhammer 40K route, how have these creatures changed? And if they change too far, they're no longer what we think. How do the Eldar build Disruption Cannons if they've never had a Vehicle Industry...which means a Fuel Industry...which....you get the drift.

If Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks himself, who wins? Neat to think about, but it'd make a lousy story.

 

[Berethond]

Yeah, we just give new names and call them aliens, even Mass Effect has them. Ever think a Krogan was like an Orc? The Asari seem a little like elves? The Volus are very similar to Dwarfs?

I always thought the Geth were more like orcs than the Krogans.
I think the Elcor are a lot like Ents, though.
The Hanar are just awesome. I want to be a Hanar >.>

 

[jawakiller]

Vulcans anyone? I know, that is most illogical Captain. Pointy ears and everything. Though the Vulcans aren't bad-asses. The Elves (even though they are really girly... kind of like Link) are totally epic. Spock and the gang are boring.

Link is not girly! He wears a kilt, like William Wallace! Was he girly? No, he kicked some British ass! FREEDOM!!!

... ... I'm thinking it was totally a skirt. There is a big difference between a skirt and a kilt. A scientific difference! Well you see, uh. Um, uh well... You have to be a ale guzzling scottish bad-ass to wear a kilt. What? Its scientific!

Kratos wore a skirt, does that make him girly? Would the man who tore off a god's head to use it as a flashlight girly? Think carefully of the consequences that Kratos would rain down on you.

...... (0.0) .... dddi-ii-dd yo-ouu-uuuu sa-ay-ay-a-ay kra-kr-kratos...... [runs out the door and proceeds to commit suicide].

 

[Verex]

There's Leprechaun in Space... Isn't that close enough?

 

[Nuckelavee]

I can see where he's coming from.

The main issue with the Warhammer 40K argument is the concepts behind it.
Orks (Waaaaaagh!) versus orcs is a major point. The whole idea of the Green Horde (Waaaaaagh!)was a mindless horde of green bearing down in every direction at every point in time. They seek to fight as it's own end and reward. The orcs are a far more sophisticated counterpart, they have achieved a level of industry utterly unheard of with numbers and tactics far superior to that of the Orks (Waaaaaagh!) or indeed every other species. In reverse comparison, imagine the entire Green Horde (Waaaaaagh!) turning around and ceasing all hostilities against itself, re-examining and centralising all industry based around a single set of mass-produced designs, actually calculating and figuring out what the Waaaaaagh! (Waaaaaagh!) is composed of and how things on all sides work and then systematically trumpsing every single species outside of the void with superior tactics and numbers. It'd be a single sided battle, even the Necrons would have trouble against a force that large and well organised.

 

[Souplex]

Well Mass Effect has a race of girly, long lived pretentious jerks that serve as substitutes for elves.

 

[OldGus]

That would be awesome.

Isn't that essentially what Warhammer 40k is about?

Yes, and yes, and

So how come I've never heard someone talk about this or heard someone think about it?

because for the most part, the two are separate genres where people are happy enough with each one.

 

[Berethond]

Well Mass Effect has a race of girly, long lived pretentious jerks that serve as substitutes for elves.

And don't forget everyone thinks they're hot and they have magic powers.

 

[octafish]

Warhamm- uh, ok, try Shadowrun, not the Video Game (Wasted use of an IP, should have been a single-player RPG). If I remember correctly this is the year the elves, dwarves and magic users return. Not set in space but in a cyberpunk world where corporations go to war with each other.

 

[nin_ninja]

This is a question that has been bugging me for awhile. I mean, what's so wrong with wantin to see that? I'm sure I'm no the only one who has imagined such a fantasy world. Where confederacies of dwarves run a galactic enterprise on valuable minerals and metals and have switched from the up close and personal tactic of warhammers to using something like war mechs. Dwarves are pretty industrious people, he tunnels they build are huge, elabroate, and an architectural feat of the masters. And why not elves? They pretty much think themselves as sometype of superrace, so I think it would be possible that elves would make huge ships with giant gardens on them, travel to distant worlds and terraform them for eleven colonization, than once they have a system of 15-30 planets, isolate themselves from the galaxy. Mankind would be there of course, doing what they always do.

I mean, its not a far stretch. We simply can't expect or think that in sometime in the mythos of Dragon Age the Qunari would not try and attempt space travel. They built cannons when every other race had bows and swords, they were only beaten by magic. And of course magic would still be around in such a universe, what does that make the Force( no quotes from Obi Wan or Yoda or anyone involved with Star Wars or a character from another movie/comic/tv show quoting Star Wars).

So how come I've never heard someone talk about this or heard someone think about it?

***Edit: As pointed out by someone's earlier post, I'm not talking about Warhammer 40k. I'm saying, what if we took what Tolkien's creatures, cultures, races, and mythos and sped the clock forward 1500 years or so. Why don't we see something like that? It doesn't have to be along the same lines as W40k, but closer to traditional Western RPGs or actual books. Like the dwarves and elves from Dragon Age, they're portrayed pretty damn well, to the extent where I believe that Bioware holds weekly seances to speak with Tolkien. I'm wondering why someone hasn't... What's a good way to put this....

Ummm... Why someone hasn't tried to mix the chocolate of Mass Effect with the peanut butter of Dragon Age. ( Yes, I'm a Bioware fanboy. It'd be a dream to work on a game for them and I truly believe no RPG company, East or West, can write or create a better lore and game like Bioware can)***

****P.S. If you are about to say,"Warhammer 40k," than walk off, please elaborate and not give me a joke about an orcs stuffy die dakka.****

Mass Effect and Dragon Age actually made me think of this.

Only not in Space, but Modern Times.

 

[00slash00]

it would be an interesting experiment, but im not that crazy about sci-fi (or syfy). im much more of a fantasy nerd. then again, it would be nice to have the races and lore of a fantasy game, without having to worry about running in to giant spiders (very very very arachnophobic)

 

[Souplex]

Well Mass Effect has a race of girly, long lived pretentious jerks that serve as substitutes for elves.

And don't forget everyone thinks they're hot and they have magic powers.

Asari I can sort of get, but people think androgynous twigs are hot?

 

[Random Argument Man]

You want to see more Tolkien "elves, dwarves and orc"?

That's all we see these days and honestly it got boring real fast.

 

[Berethond]

Well Mass Effect has a race of girly, long lived pretentious jerks that serve as substitutes for elves.

And don't forget everyone thinks they're hot and they have magic powers.

Asari I can sort of get, but people think androgynous twigs are hot?

....Yes?
I assumed you were talking about the Asari. There are no other real long-lived races.

 

[Xenetethrae]

Unlike humans, elves in space have the ability to regenerate neurons (nerve cells). Same with brain tissue.

Couple this with your explanation of altering the way/rate of cell repair and you have immortal, space, sci-fi elves.

Humans actually do have the ability to regenerate neurons. They just don't always reconnect in the ways we want them too. But I get the gist of what you are saying.

Why does it need to be Tolkienish anyway? Personally, I'm sick of all this Tolkien-ization of the fantasy genre. I don't see the allure at all of reusing already stale species archetypes in a game universe. Plus we already have (semi)origional, space-fantasies so I fail to see how this genre is lacking (Star Wars & WH 40k).

I guess I could accept the elves/humans/orcs/dwarves classics in space but the backstory would have to be expertly thought-out to make sense. In Tolkien's world, the races all were heavily characterized by their environment, yet in a space-fantasy, it would be ridiculous to think of every race advancing tech and setting out into space at the same time. The only logical solution I can see is by putting each species on their own planet. But in order for this to be remotely realistic, it would cripple the dynamic between their budding empires (as a war between newly emergent space-powers each with only a handful of planets to their name would likely end before any other races even had time to show up on the galactic scene). They could only realistically encounter one another after they had aquired many many systems to ensure that each species has a sizable chunk of the galaxy under their control and cannot be wiped out easily by whatever future doomsday weaponry is currently employed.

This early isolation would dramatically alter their respective identities. Imagine each species developing on their own planet devoid of contact with other intelligent life until some far-off future. Elves would have no other race to feel superior to, Orcs would have only the wildlife and themselves to slaughter and pillage, dwarves... well I don't really see dwarves ending up too different, and without any obviously "evil" foe to unite against I can all too easily see humans being fractured and divided amongst many nations, each all to feeble to stand against whatever new galactic threat it may encounter.

Whoever creates the backstory to tie together Tolkien's creations to a space seting will either have to be much smarter than I, or a whole lot less critical.

Despite all this, it would be interesting to see a fantasy space setting that is more true to Tolkien than loosely based of his creations (looking at you 40k). But then again, do we really need Tolkien conquering space as well as the fantasy-past? What next, the Sims-Tolkien edition?

(As you can see I'm really on the wall with this one)

 

[Irony's Acolyte]

Fantasy races in space? That would be pretty cool. Just imagine it:

Spoiler: Elves

Spoiler: Dwarves

Spoiler: Orks

Wait a second...

Yeah, it's been done before. You just have to look in the right place. 40k is probably the best known example, but there are others. Another that comes to mind is the P&P RPG Shadowrun which, although not set in space, is set in a cyber-punk future with plenty of magic and fantasy elements in it.

And there are such things as space fantasies. The original Star Wars was pretty close to this actually (think about it, how Sci-fi is a mystical energy wielded by an order of warrior-monks, that allows them to manipulate reality around them?). It wasn't until later canon came out that it drifted back towards Sci-fi, no matter how many fans were angered by it.

 

[sumanoskae]

That sounds like an interesting idea.

It'd be fun just seeing the ways you could translate the elements from Fantasy to Sci-Fi

 

[OldRat]

Mostly because fantasy is very tropes-heavy, and so is scifi to certain extent. People tend to associate those tropes with their genres quite tightly. I guess it just doesn't feel "natural" for most to do something like that.
And people like swords in their fantasy. And castles. And whatnot. I certainly do, all in all.
But still, there have been some things like that. Kinda. Most have already been mentioned here.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and an argument could be made that most of the higher fantasy worlds are stagnant by definition. If you have stuff like default Dungeons & Dragons (no, let's not talk about Spelljammer), there's really no need for development. Magic can make infinite food, water and shelter. Magic is a weapon, a tool and a power more efficient than any development would seem to be in the beginning (or even a thousand years later), so why bother? Just do your magic stuff and get better results.

Not that that's a real reason why nobody does a generic fantasy version of scifi, but I just put that up there.

 

[Light 086]

There are space orcs or orks in warhammer 40K. Vulcans are pretty much like space elves(superior and damn near immortal to humans). Klingons can kind be viewed as dwarves as they drink and fight all the time, but they are not short though so... I dunno about that one.