Why do women like ***** characters?

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Blow_Pop

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Jan 21, 2009
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Lightknight said:
Blow_Pop said:
First off, as a few have already said, YOU may not mean to be generalising into "all" women but the way the topic is worded and how it comes off is that you are generalising it. Intention or not that is the way it sounds. If you had put why do SOME women like ***** characters then it wouldn't seem so generalising.
Is it improper to talk in generalities when discussing large numbers of people? Do we really still need to preface all of our generalizations with "Ok, I know not all, but in general..." before asking a question? I think now that society has successfully demonized things like racism and sexism that our general assumption is the person is talking in generalizations.

Now, if the context seems to indicate that all (as in every single member) likes X then sure, the question should be raised. But I'm pretty tired of people having to explain how stereotypes and generalizations work before getting to their point. I get it, women have longer hair than men on average but some women as individuals can have short or even no hair despite the generally expressed long hair. Got it, move along, you know?
When you're making it sound like it's an entire group of people (and yes that is how I read the entire OP is that he was saying because this group of women I talked to said this all women are like this) then yes. Especially when the generality isn't necessarily true. Since OP can't seem to understand why so many people are on their case about this then yes it does need to be stated.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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Blow_Pop said:
When you're making it sound like it's an entire group of people (and yes that is how I read the entire OP is that he was saying because this group of women I talked to said this all women are like this) then yes. Especially when the generality isn't necessarily true. Since OP can't seem to understand why so many people are on their case about this then yes it does need to be stated.
If you have reason to believe that the person was talking in terms of everyone then sure, bring it up. I just didn't get that but that's the thing about nuances of text conversations. High degrees of subjectivity in intent.
 

AJ_Lethal

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Jun 29, 2014
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Don't dare to insult Buttercup. She's infinitely cooler than you, OP.

I don't like "bitchy" characters since they tend to be horrible without any redeeming quality (like charisma). Its lazy as fuck writing. Also, whoever conflates assertiveness with assholery/bitchiness deserves to get punched in the crotch. Repeteadly.
 

Lightknight

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Nov 26, 2008
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AJ_Lethal said:
Don't dare to insult Buttercup. She's infinitely cooler than you, OP.

I don't like "bitchy" characters since they tend to be horrible without any redeeming quality (like charisma). Its lazy as fuck writing. Also, whoever conflates assertiveness with assholery/bitchiness deserves to get punched in the crotch. Repeteadly.
I've found Korra from the Legend of Korra to be insufferably bitchy, bull-headed, and broody without the capacity to really learn from her mistakes. Add that into her incompetence as the Avatar and she's one of the worst written characters I've ever seen.

But then I think about characters like Angelina Jolie in Hackers and there are some really interesting ways to develop these characters.

But it's almost always by making them not a ***** to the characters you care about. Same with the male guys that are dicks. Characters like Tallahassee from Zombieland are fun to a point but if they were all jerk and no play then it'd be tiresome.
 

DoPo

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Jan 30, 2012
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Lightknight said:
Is it improper to talk in generalities when discussing large numbers of people? Do we really still need to preface all of our generalizations with "Ok, I know not all, but in general..." before asking a question?
It is quite important, yes. First of all, generalisations generally suggests what you generalise holds true for most if not all of the generalised population. This is not always the case, OP specifically and continuously claims it is indeed not the case, yet the question carries a different meaning.

Also: why do blond people like McDonalds? why do black people listen to Bon Jovi? why do Christians drink tequila? why do Serbians put ice in their drinks? Even though each of these questions generalizes a population, all of them also carry the implicit meaning that what this part of the population is odd and/or not shared with the rest of the world. This is verbal segregation and itself carries ideas across. Phrasing is important. If you don't want to say "Serbians are weird for putting ice in their drinks, even though it's only some of them that do it", then don't phrase it in that way. Not to mention you're breaking how

Lightknight said:
Now, if the context seems to indicate that all (as in every single member) likes X then sure, the question should be raised.
OP pretty much said "I asked some women and they said X, why do all women think X". That's the context of the question. If OP wanted to ask something different, then he communicated it wrong. Also, if OP wanted to ask something different as he keeps pleading then it seems it's either "I asked some women something and they said X, why did they say X" which is useless to ask as OP knows these women and OP already asked them. Alternatively, the question actually is "I asked some women and they said X, why would a woman say X" which is really no different in terms of verbal segregation to the initial meaning.

Lightknight said:
But I'm pretty tired of people having to explain how stereotypes and generalizations work before getting to their point.
Then maybe those people need to actually learn how these work. "Some I know , therefore I'll generalise that all " is not that.
 

Erttheking

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Women think that way? Well, I'm gonna have to inform my female friends that they like ***** characters. It's gonna be quite a shock to them since they never showed any interest in ***** characters before.
 

zhoominator

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Lightknight said:
Is it improper to talk in generalities when discussing large numbers of people? Do we really still need to preface all of our generalizations with "Ok, I know not all, but in general..." before asking a question? I think now that society has successfully demonized things like racism and sexism that our general assumption is the person is talking in generalizations.
The whole question of this is though whether these numbers are actually that large. Length of hair is something that can be empirically measured by masses of people you need know nothing about to come to a determination of whether women have longer hair than men.

The issue is in instances like this are the words "in my personal experience". Believe it or not, we don't get to know a particularly large number of people within our lifetime. More than just limiting the number of people used to base generalisations on though, is that we tend to only interact with a very narrow subset of people.

So yes, if you are basing your conclusions only from your personal experience, then you SHOULD concede that any conclusions you come to will be generalisations and likely inaccurate ones at that. If you actually have evidence taken from a larger sample size picked at random (like a decent scientific study will do), that's another matter.

Otherwise, it's just stupid arrogance really.
 

Bellvedere

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Jul 31, 2008
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My favourite powerpuff girl was Blossom (and I'm a woman). Buttercup was my brothers favourite because she was the toughest fighter.

Plenty of people liked Buttercup because she was tough, she was tomboyish and she was a bit angry. Maybe that's just what ***** means to some people - like a female specific version of baddass. Personally, it's not really a word that I like, and I don't use it in a positive sense as a result, but people use language in all kinds of different ways. Maybe you should start off by finding out what people mean when they use ***** in that specific context because assuming that all usages have the same definition is a very big mistake.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Happyninja42 said:
The closest explanation I've heard was basically "because they say what they are thinking, and don't take shit from anyone." Which I guess could be seen as female empowerment? But there are examples of female characters who could fit those qualifications, without being labeled as "a *****".
mabye because in our society we still expect women to be "nice" so when they aren't we call them "bitches"?

well anyway its a bit of a complicated question....

weather or not a charachter is a ***** depends on context, I know thats its a habbit to make fictional "strong independant women" abrasive/agressive for no real reason, and that female charachters often get relegated to "wet blanket" roles...see Skylar White effect

for me it depends...is their Bitchiness warranted? in OITNB Red can be considered a ***** some of the time, but it makes sense for her to do so..this is a prison and shes after power/influence...we also know that she does have a heart and will protect those she cares about

in Edge Of Tomorrow they actually call the female charachter "Full Metal *****" given its a way and she's "seen a lot of shit" her shortness is probably understandable...even if it sterotypical

as I said orgiinally I think there is something Cathartic in the idea of a woman not taking shit...especially when we feel were "suposed" to "be nice" where people irrtate us....that said it can also be just another cliche..ultimatly it comes down to how well you write your charachters

Lightknight said:
It really depends on the flaw. For example, a lot of female literature features the whining drama queen heavily as a protagonist. Thankfully, this protagonist also drives a lot of females nuts too. But a flaw that's bad enough can easily throw the value of a character off.

As I said in the previous page, the *****/jackass is the stereotypical tough guy/gal character. Humans eat that shit up.
the difference here is I doubt the "whiney drama queen" was intentional on part of the Author

thats the difference between a flaw in the WORK and a flaw in the CHARACHTER

for example (oh god I keep using this show) Piper from OITNB can be self absorbed and annoying...this was intentional and by season 2 we see her develop a bit

Bella from twilgit....well you get the idea
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Phasmal said:
What's up with the sudden influx of `F*cking women how do they work` threads.
because the Zoe Quinn thread seems to have kicked up a lot of anti-woman sentiments. The logic seems to be the same as this thread: that one person or a small subset speaks for all women.

Anyway, more to your point about women being people (and with statements as controversial as that, this thread should be in R&P, mirite). There's a significant group of people who latch on to bastards, as well. I'm not entirely sure it breaks down along gender lines, either. The fact is, if you write an asshole, people will latch on to them, regardless of whether or not they're women.

Of course, it really only seems to come up with women. Just like the "women only like jerks" thing, which I expect will cycle back up in a few days.

But anyway (and OT), since this is still largely a gaming site:

Why do gamers like assholes so much?

I mean, seriously, most of the most popular gaming characters are jerks, douchebags, bastards and/or sociopaths. Why the bastard attraction?

...Or would this be an unfair question, despite it applying the same standards? Hell, it applies a better standard.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Phasmal said:
What's up with the sudden influx of `F*cking women how do they work` threads.
.
and I don't wanna talk to no Color-Scientist....she be tellin lies and gettin the guys pissed

Zachary Amaranth said:
Anyway, more to your point about women being people (and with statements as controversial as that, this thread should be in R&P, mirite). There's a significant group of people who latch on to bastards, as well. I'm not entirely sure it breaks down along gender lines, either. The fact is, if you write an asshole, people will latch on to them, regardless of whether or not they're women.
.
I'm gonna have to slightly disagree here...I feel we give at least a little more leeway for male charachters to be bastards than women charachters
 

psijac

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Nov 20, 2008
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good people that are complete and happy are essentially boring. Its the flawed F'ed up people that are entertaining to watch
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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AdonistheDark said:
The only people worse than the troglodyte that started this thread are the idiots actually defending themselves from the charge of "liking ***** characters". Congrats, you aren't like those other women...
while I'm familiar with this sentiment I don't belive thats the case in majority of replies

we usually grow out of that phase
 

Proto Taco

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Apr 30, 2013
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A lot of people make things like this far more complicated than they actually are;

1) Even today, women who speak openly and without reservation are considered to be unfeminine and annoying. Often earning them the title '*****' by emasculated men.

2) There is a point at which someone will simply stop caring if they're considered bad/evil/gross/etc. and simply embrace it because they're tired of trying to convince myopic halfwits they're not.

3) People are myopic halfwits. To pretend otherwise is O-Network levels of denier optimism.

Sure you can pack all kinds of nonsense in there about women's rights and gender politics, but it just bloats a simple equation and makes it harder to see the forest for the trees.
 

rorychief

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Mar 1, 2013
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Women like them because when someone confident describes the situation and characters around her bluntly and without tact it's entertaining and people like what entertains them.

I know OP is probably sick of these short answers from men guessing at women and their minds, but I have to agree with anyone whose made this case and say liking a character for their antisocial behavior is not the same as endorsing that behavior. How could anyone enjoy anything but moralizing propaganda if it were. It would suck and besides no one asks men why they like explosions. Or swordfish or fishswords or tense standoffish moments.

Do I enjoy those things; yesIdo
Do I believe they are good things to in real life surround myself with; Probable No.

If you ask women they probably have a similar system, I'd imagine I'd hope I'd expect.
 

Cronenberg1

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Aug 20, 2014
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Rayce Archer said:
Oh my god all you people are giving this dude straight answers instead of the mockery he deserves.

"All women like bitches in fiction. Bitches like that stupid ***** Buttercup in Powerpuff Girls, she's such a total *****!"

OP, here's your answer. Women like bitches because they like jerks instead of nice guys, and all women are secretly bi even though they won't even look at you twice. It's a conspiracy to keep you alone instead of providing you with the sex you deserve for being a good dude. Now curl up under your fedora and take a nap.
Dude I know right! Also vaginas whats up with that? like what are they hiding in there? Probably secret plans to impose the matriarchy, that's why they never let me get in there.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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I think it's the same way for both genders, people tend to associate with the smug, sarcastic, and funny characters. Typically "the *****" is the one who gets all the cool, or at least amusing, lines in an ensemble cast or team. That said, such characters while popular rarely do well on their own when they get spin offs and such as they really need a set of established personalities to play off of.

It's sort of like how Cartman is the face for "South Park" and Angelica tends to be the face for "Rugrats" both characters are complete jerks, but they tend to make you laugh which is why people like them.

Of course for some people this does backfire, for example Yahtzee and others of his ilk make a big deal about hating the whole Joss Whedon-schtick which is what a lot of these characters in heroic fantasy draw on, although he by no means invented it (Spider Man and The Human Torch were doing it before Buffy was ever conceived of).

It should also be noted that "*****" is not a negative way of spinning admirable traits, and when your dealing with a character like "Buttercup" the stuff you laugh at or that gets your attention are more character flaws that come out in amusing ways than anything positive.

That said it should also be noted that a "smug bastard" tends to mostly be appreciated by the group for which he represents. If your not American you tend to be annoyed by smug American action heroes for example, but less so by those of your own culture. Americans themselves tend to be the exception to this and more open minded. For example I've noticed a lot of brits and other Europeans echoing Yahtzee's sentiments when it comes to characters like "Nathan Drake" and so on, but Brits for example tend to be less judgemental of say James Bond (for whom it is also a character trait) or Aussies if they see an Australian character doing it, etc... But that goes increasingly out of context with this post.

Someone liking Buttercup "because she's a *****" is sort of like them liking Deadpool "because he's kind of an annoying jerk". In context it can be quite fun, and those two characters tend to stick out within their own universes because of how they behave. Also it helps that their worst character traits tend to mostly be unleashed on the bad guys, or in a way that's funny to an impartial observer (like a viewer/reader). If you were actually a Super Hero for example you would probably not be all that enthusiastic about working with Deadpool for all the reasons he's fun to read about. DC also has a cult classic of a character called "Ambush Bug" whose major feature is pretty much to be useless and annoying (but powerful enough in his own way you can't do anything about him, or stop him from showing up).