Why do you still come to the Escapist forums?

[Josh123914]

This entire post

Well perhaps the only issue I have is the "Don't be rude" policy.

I get the reason that its there, but over the years I can't count how many people had been banned for innocuous reasons. It also allows a certain resident banjumper (which I'm sure you've heard of) to goad people into being banned while having no respect for the rules themself.

 

[PsychicTaco115]

Actually, I've thought of a better answer

I think the term is 'sunk costs'

So that. That's a thing, right?

 

[Fappy]

I get bored at work and reddit's format is really only good for short bursts of lurking imo. If a few of my favorite posters left I'd probably check out too. The main draw for me at this point is to see those guys shit on other people's poor attitudes. It's a weird kind people watching.

 

[n0e]

I can understand your desire to point out that you're new, but hhere is something to think about. What you're saying is a lot like the first officer of a sinking ship suddenly finding themselves made captain by dint of the death of the former captain. Would you be comforted by reassurances that this is their first day on the job, and you shouldn't worry about the mistakes and excesses of the previous captaincy? No, you'd realize that a change in leadership doesn't unsink your ship.

I think you should consider restraining your instinct to defend yourself and your new ship, unless you're going to do with that really concrete actions. This ship is almost under the waves, and "Keep Calm and Sink" isn't going to happen.

I think the better question is why the owner of this site isn't in this thread answering concerns, but instead has his new hire doing it for him. When your customers have a 4 page gabfest of "This place sucks and is dead", sending the new guy out feels like a sacrifice.

So no offense to you, your abilities, or your intentions, but you're just digging this hole deeper.

A) I visited and responded in this thread quite voluntarily. As you may already know, most of the staff at the Escapist is in the US and were all asleep during the hours I was active. (I was having a bit of insomnia and thought I'd explore the forums a bit and get a feel for the place)

B) I feel you're exaggerating the level of "This place sucks and is dead" to a height that is well above what it currently is. I've had quite a few private messages, of which I'm still writing replies to (You guys write books in those messages!) all with a similar set of issues they wanted to inform me of. There are still plenty of posts being made and quite a few of the gripes can be almost immediately dealt with simply by having someone in this position, aka me, being active and doing my best to respond to each private message and as much and as soon as I can and informing folks of what's going on when I can. The others, I can, and will be looking into.

C) This is all me, buddy. I threw myself in the proverbial pit so we could get used to each other.

Finally, I respect your cynical view, though I do not agree with it. Perhaps that will change in the future, perhaps not. We'll see.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I lurk a bit now and then, rarely post.

The community changed and so did I... It can't be helped. I'd really rather talk 1-on-1 without an audience. I believe it keeps people honest and relatively respectful.

 

[DementedSheep]

Because of boredom and every forum community is shit, this one I already have an account for.

 

[Hagi]

I'm rather new here, and this forum seems pretty great. Very friendly community, you can talk about videogames and about pretty much anything else you'd feel like discussing, and not worry about flaming or trolling.

Why do some people here say the forum is withering? How was it before?

The forums used to be vastly more active with a greater degree of random nonsense posts that were simply amusing. Over time the amount of hostile arguments increased steadily, either ending in passive agressive back-and-forth for pages and pages or constant warnings and bans. Peaking at the whole gamergate thing.

Right now I'd say it's actually recovering. There's a lot less hostile discussion going on and a lot more fun posts. I think what's rather happening that it's driving home the contrast with how it used to be much more heavily.

Before you could at least pretend a large amount of previously very active and notable users were simply staying out of things. Right now it's pretty obvious that a lot of people are simply gone and possibly not coming back. They might still be active in user groups, don't know about that, not really a part of the site I use myself, but I think for many there's a clear absence in the forums.

 

[GojiraGamer]

Mostly for commenting on Zero Punctuation and old episodes of the Jimquisition. I also come for badge progress, badge guides, and discussing stuff.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I'm not going to ignore the data, far from it, but I'm not going to burden myself with worrying about how it once was when my focus should be looking at ways to bring in new faces and perpetually more activity. This would be my goal regardless of when you see the highpoint of the forums.

But that's what I'm getting at. The way to get a lot of new people to come to the site is to once again make Zero Punctuation exclusive to the Escapist again (or at least a timed exclusive with the episodes being uploaded to Youtube several months after being uploaded at the Escapist.)

People will come here to watch Zero Punctuation, and once they're here a good number of them will sign up to comment on the videos, and then once they're signed up a good number will also be drawn into the rest of the discussion on the forums. Actually, Facebook comments should probably be removed from the site too. Over 80% of the user base on this site came here because they had to if they wanted to watch Zero Punctuation. But as long as people can watch Zero Punctuation on Youtube, they won't have any reason to actually come to the Escapist at all.

Spoiler: Here's some more numbers I gathered a while ago to drive the point home

Remember when there used to always be those threads where people would complain how there weren't any old users anymore, and everybody had a join date newer than so-and-so? Well, we don't have that problem anymore! Nearly everybody who still posts here has a join date older than 2013 with most being 2008-2011.

I just checked the first page of each thread on the first page of Off-Topic and tallied everybody who had a join date from 2014-2015:

Total Posts: 539
Posts from users with join dates 2014-2015: 58
Individual users with join dates 2014-2015: 35
Percentage of posts from users with join dates 2014-2015: 10%

For comparison I did the same thing with the first page of Off-Topic from August 16, 2011 [http://web.archive.org/web/20110816093450/http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/index/18-Off-topic-Discussion]:

Total Posts: 602
Posts from users with join dates 2010-2011: 356
Percentage of posts from users with join dates 2010-2011: 59%

As you can see, new users just aren't coming to the forums anymore. The reason? Because they just watch Zero Punctuation on Youtube.

All these things combined, and it's not hard to see why so many people have become dissatisfied or disillusioned with this site, the forums, the content, and/or the management.

Don't forget the Jim Sterling adblock debacle, where a content creator was told he could make a video on adblock, users were told they could discuss the video on adblock, then there were mass warnings and bans because discussing adblock is against the CoC.

Also, I'm pretty sure a few users are still bitter about that whole Extra Credits mess too.

 

[WolfThomas]

*leans back in rocking chair* 2010? Those were the days! The discussions had meat on them and there were videos aplenty. I even remember when abandoned threads were flooded with spiderman pictures, people made a big show of leaving by forcing a ban, and even when the thread "The Artist In Thee" was first made... and then came the reign of Danyal. Now those were dark times for the religious among us. The R&P forums were a hellscape that made Dante's inferno seem like a children's playground, but then the banhammer was brought down on those who made it so and peace was restored, but that's ancient history now.

I don't post much anymore, but I'll always come here. This was my first internet home and even though I wander quite a bit, I know that these forums will always be the best there are and ever will be. They're filled with good users, good mods, and good discussions. Sure there might not be a wide variety of topics now, but just wait, this lull will pass. This has happened before an it'll happen again, it's as inevitable as the tide and as sure as th- HOLY SHIT I AM SO OLD!

Bah 2010. A mere shadow of yesterday.

I agree I remember times where a thread would disappear off the front page in 5min if not interesting. I also remember droughts worse than this current one.

 

[Drathnoxis]

*leans back in rocking chair* 2010? Those were the days! The discussions had meat on them and there were videos aplenty. I even remember when abandoned threads were flooded with spiderman pictures, people made a big show of leaving by forcing a ban, and even when the thread "The Artist In Thee" was first made... and then came the reign of Danyal. Now those were dark times for the religious among us. The R&P forums were a hellscape that made Dante's inferno seem like a children's playground, but then the banhammer was brought down on those who made it so and peace was restored, but that's ancient history now.

I don't post much anymore, but I'll always come here. This was my first internet home and even though I wander quite a bit, I know that these forums will always be the best there are and ever will be. They're filled with good users, good mods, and good discussions. Sure there might not be a wide variety of topics now, but just wait, this lull will pass. This has happened before an it'll happen again, it's as inevitable as the tide and as sure as th- HOLY SHIT I AM SO OLD!

Bah 2010. A mere shadow of yesterday.

I agree I remember times where a thread would disappear off the front page in 5min if not interesting. I also remember droughts worse than this current one.

I find this interesting.

Before I ask you about this, I should probably mention why I'm here, I'm a new user here and I'm a long-time member over at the forums at GameFront, which is another Defy Media owned site, and where n0e is also the community manager. So it's interesting to me to compare what users are saying over here compared to how things are over there.

I had a look over the forum guidelines and, honestly, as a new user, I find them perhaps a little intimidating. I see a need for a community to maintain a standard of quality in it's conversations, but sometimes it's good for users who know each other very well to be able to hang loose a little, too.

Am I right then in inferring from your comment here that, should a topic be posted and not deemed interesting for one reason or another, that that topic would be locked or something of that nature? Or just that the activity was such that boring topics naturally fell off the page quickly.

I only ask as the guidelines seem to imply that a post or thread that isn't of a certain undefined length or level or interest is made it would be an infraction?

I'm not questioning the validity of the practice either way, I'm just genuinely curious to learn how it is and get a general feel for the tone of the board, if you know what I mean. It's a bit hard as a newbie to guage these things!

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

Honestly, the community felt closer when there were 10 times as many active users. Does anybody else feel the same way, or am I off base with that?

What about you remaining Escapists, why are you here? Are you satisfied with the state of the forums? Are you getting something out of your time spent here? Or are you just here out of some attachment to the past or a lack of alternatives?

I've been an off-and-on member since 2008, and although I'm on the IRC channel on a mostly regular basis, I haven't been on the forum as much. In part, I think, because I come from an older time than you, so my rose tint is a bit more sepia toned, not that late 2008 was really that youthful a year in the Escapist's history.

For me, I really cut my teeth on these forums when it was a fair bit smaller. Maybe 30-50 regular users in the forums I would regular (Off-Topic and User Reviews), and for the most part, every poster knew every poster by some name or another. Most of the folks I remember from my earlier years have gotten banned or wandered off, so a lot of my more memorable discussions and sense of community left with most of the old folks. Some of whom moved countries to live with each other, gotten in long term relationships, or found themselves elsewhere in their careers.

I've been a member of this place for nearly a decade, so I certainly have a fond nostalgia for my earlier years here. A lot of the older folks who aren't around anymore were friends of mine, fans of my writing, and exactly the sort of people that helped me become the professional writer I am today, and these forums were a part of what got me there.

I'm reasonably happy with the state of the forums. I mean, I see a lot of the worst of it, thanks in no small part to the blue name, but I'm always happy to do what I can to help stuff out. I mean, in reality, I'm a polite, well-spoken janitor. There are some policies I preferred from older iterations of the Code of Conduct and formerly the Forum Guidelines. There was a much softer tone to the forums, at least to my memory, since the spaces were a lot more intimate.

And I could always enjoy myself more, I think. But it's a bit silly for me to think I know the best way to make everything better, so I'm always happy to keep meeting new folks in the hope that someone will surprise me. I might even learn something this way.

C) This is all me, buddy. I threw myself in the proverbial pit so we could get used to each other.

Hey, boss. Welcome to the Escapist!

 

[Mikeybb]

I came here and lurked for a long time, just reading the forums on occasion.
Zero Punctuation was the lure that drew me in.

I made an account during the big summer event of 2014 and posted actively for a while.
During that period the forums were frisky to say the least, even if it wasn't the most amicable of places at the times when tempers ran hot.

I stayed and keep returning because there are still interesting threads on occasion as well as content I enjoy.
Critical Miss and Erin Dies Alone joined Zero Punctuation as prime reasons I still visit.
Yhatzee's By the Cover is a great addition.
This isn't to say that these are the only reasons I'm here.
Pretty much everything that ends up on the front page gets clicked and read.

Regarding my participation in the forums, it has slowed down.
A comment or post here or there.
Some days none at all.
In truth, I find the more sedate pace more enjoyable.
Listening/reading as opposed to filling the screen with my rambling drivel.

edit: all of which got in the way of me answering the prime question "why?", the answer being "I still enjoy it" even if it is at this slower pace.

 

[WolfThomas]

Am I right then in inferring from your comment here that, should a topic be posted and not deemed interesting for one reason or another, that that topic would be locked or something of that nature? Or just that the activity was such that boring topics naturally fell off the page quickly.

I only ask as the guidelines seem to imply that a post or thread that isn't of a certain undefined length or level or interest is made it would be an infraction?

That's okay, happy to answer question. I was unclear in my post I didn't mean there was any formal moderation of what was "interesting". I meant that the volume of traffic was so high, that if you didn't get a response quickly another topic would push it into the second page and thus effectively kill it.

Though in those days, there was no separation of forums other than Gaming and Off topic. So advice, non-gaming user reviews and religion/politics would be alongside other off topic threads and gaming reviewing, gaming industry stuff would be simply in gaming.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Am I right then in inferring from your comment here that, should a topic be posted and not deemed interesting for one reason or another, that that topic would be locked or something of that nature? Or just that the activity was such that boring topics naturally fell off the page quickly.

I only ask as the guidelines seem to imply that a post or thread that isn't of a certain undefined length or level or interest is made it would be an infraction?

That's okay, happy to answer question. I was unclear in my post I didn't mean there was any formal moderation of what was "interesting". I meant that the volume of traffic was so high, that if you didn't get a response quickly another topic would push it into the second page and thus effectively kill it.

Though in those days, there was no separation of forums other than Gaming and Off topic. So advice, non-gaming user reviews and religion/politics would be alongside other off topic threads and gaming reviewing, gaming industry stuff would be simply in gaming.

Thanks for answering.

That makes sense. I guess personally I prefer to have things broken down into various sub-forums, it does give topics more of a chance, even if it makes things seem a little slower at first. Personally I find it hard to keep up with those super-active, hundreds+ online users at a time type of boards, where your post is lost in the shuffle so fast you feel like one voice in 1000.

Honestly the activity level here seems pretty good from what I am seeing so far. Hope to stick around here and hopefully get to know you guys.

 

[vallorn]

Oh now, now, that's not at all what I was stating. I simply meant that a forum needs content to stay active and to allow others to participate in new discussions.

It saddens me that there are users who feel as though they're on auto-pilot when visiting the forums. It's not at all what I would like to see. I hope I can do more for those who feel this way as I take on this role now and in the future. If you ever feel frustrated about something that happened, please contact me and let me know.

You do have a very good point that a CM should have a partnership with its community. I wholeheartedly agree. It's how I've acted as a CM for the past 15 years and plan to for as long as I hold this title. While some other sites view a CM as simply a mouthpiece for a company to their community, it's also the duty of a CM to be the mouthpiece of the community for the company.

But, this thread isn't about me. How about we start fresh? What do you feel is the most important item that needs to be addressed?

Personally, I feel that the site had some really good things going a while ago when it advertised interviews with forum members on the front page, perhaps that could return? Or maybe a "Best threads of the week" article to pull new blood off of the front page and into the forum's content? Because I think that's the main thing that needs to be done, the forums need a rush of fresh, new, blood (and not specifically from one site or another or grouped by some variety of political persuasion) to boost posting rates and make it work better here.

There's also attrition due to the way that the moderation health bar works here but that's a somewhat separate issue and one that I know a lot of people both feel strongly about and have done a lot of work to analyze on so I'll just leave it there.

Welcome to the job btw, I promise our hazing rituals for new CMs aren't THAT bad, mostly just autoplaying videos of Darude Sandstorm.

 

[freaper]

Habit.

The Escapist is on my "rotation of boredom" websites. Plus, this is the only place where I can find some more nuanced opinions on random stuff.

 

[chiggerwood]

*leans back in rocking chair* 2010? Those were the days! The discussions had meat on them and there were videos aplenty. I even remember when abandoned threads were flooded with spiderman pictures, people made a big show of leaving by forcing a ban, and even when the thread "The Artist In Thee" was first made... and then came the reign of Danyal. Now those were dark times for the religious among us. The R&P forums were a hellscape that made Dante's inferno seem like a children's playground, but then the banhammer was brought down on those who made it so and peace was restored, but that's ancient history now.

I don't post much anymore, but I'll always come here. This was my first internet home and even though I wander quite a bit, I know that these forums will always be the best there are and ever will be. They're filled with good users, good mods, and good discussions. Sure there might not be a wide variety of topics now, but just wait, this lull will pass. This has happened before an it'll happen again, it's as inevitable as the tide and as sure as th- HOLY SHIT I AM SO OLD!

Bah 2010. A mere shadow of yesterday.

I agree I remember times where a thread would disappear off the front page in 5min if not interesting. I also remember droughts worse than this current one.

Yeah, but that was the year brought up by OP. Hell I remember lurking in 2008. I swear, you'd see a half to a full dozen users banned in just about every thread, and the Neo badge was a rarity worthy of being bragged about. I think that's what attracted me to the site.

How the users respond to these droughts is hilarious. I remember, I think it was in 2011 and 2013, the forums slowed to a crawl and everyone started screaming that The Escapist was dying. They were genuinely afraid that the site was going to be shut down, unbelievable; I swear, for how intelligent the community is it's a jumpy lot.