Why do you think The Reapers did it?

[SajuukKhar]

snip

and you know the supposedly "changed" ending was actually just clarification on the original ending. GASPS!!! Clarification made it better.

Again it wasn't the plot device that was the problem, but the lack of clarification.

Also the series was worshiped long before the movies came out, in fact that is why there was so much backlash BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE CARED BEFORE THE MOVIES CAME OUT.

Its exactly like Mass Effect 3. The massive amounts of people who worship the game arent caused by a changed ending.
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Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

All I recall is
-Organic life is chaotic
-We impose order on chaos
-You cannot stop us
-You cannot understand us
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Ok fine

The Reapers are actively trying to prevent organic life as a whole from being killed off forever.

Hitler and The Nazis tried to kill off any form of human that wasn't them.

Trying to protect life as a whole =/= trying to pretect only one specific sub-set of life.

The Reapers =/= The Nazis.

Seriously you really have some sort of Nazi paranoia or something
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Actually since there is nothing that could ever prove them wrong they are in fact right by default.

They have a unfalsifiable hypothesis
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If you cant prove there is another way to protect all life without killing anything you have no ability, and no ground to stand on, to make an argument that someone doing the ONLY KNOWN WAY to save things is wrong.

Also as pointed out before the Reapers are not synthetic, the are organic synthetic hybrids.

the Reapers are just as organics as they are synthetics.

 

[Necron_warrior]

TO PREVENT ALL SPIRAL LIFE BECOMING ITS OWN MEGA-GALAXY.

Oh god, If only.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Well, I don't see why he would have to prove anything. He's millions of years old and has had to destroy a myriad of organic and synthetic civilizations to stop the Synthetic plague from destroying the galaxy. I think he has better things to do than try to convince a dying human that he knows more than him /her. I mean, look at it from his perspective for a second.

If you went up to a farmer and asked him why he has to spray pesticides on the crop he would say it was to kill the bugs that ate the plants. If you asked him why he would say that that's what bugs do. If you asked why that was a problem he would say it was because if they ate the plants all the fruits would be lost and the farm would go bankrupt. If you told him you didn't believe all that BS and that you wanted facts he would probably give you a slap on the ear of the head and tell you to piss off and probably think you were an ignorant and precocious little git.

Because, if you dont provide any evidence to support your statement, when the rest of the game showed your statement might be wrong, it comes off as shitty writing.

For your farmer example, it would be like if all your life you saw pesticides only kill crops, then a farmer says they are good for them because he said so.

When you have spent your entire life seeing the opposite happen someone just telling you your wrong seems nonsensical.

 

[MomoElektra]

snip

and you know the supposedly "changed" ending was actually just clarification on the original ending. GASPS!!! Clarification made it better.

Again it wasn't the plot device that was the problem, but the lack of clarification.

Also the series was worshiped long before the movies came out, in fact that is why there was so much backlash BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE CARED BEFORE THE MOVIES CAME OUT.

Its exactly like Mass Effect 3. The massive amounts of people who worship the game arent caused by a changed ending.

My memory of those events is very different. The ending of the original series was butchered by fans, and the movies have a distinctively different ending (if one can call the first one having an ending). There are similar pieces, but the ending itself is a very different one.

Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

Now you're being ridiculous.

All I recall is
-Organic life is chaotic
-We impose order on chaos
-You cannot stop us
-You cannot understand us

Now see, there is your problem. Your memory is failing.

The Reapers are actively trying to prevent organic life as a whole from being killed off forever.

Not a fact! How often will you do this? It is not fact!

Hitler and The Nazis tried to kill off any form of human that wasn't them.

You know, their propaganda mentioned something about preserving and saving the aryan race from being destroyed and/or marginalized. You're ignorance is astounding.

Trying to protect life as a whole =/= trying to pretect only one specific sub-set of life.

Both the Reapers and the Nazis thought they could decide which life form has a right to live and which does not. Both imposed their views on others. Both used genocide as a means of achieving their goal.

The Reapers =/= The Nazis.

Well obviously not, the one group sadly existed, the others are a figment of imagination in a video game. But there are similarities.

Seriously you really have some sort of Nazi paranoia or something

No, what I have is commonly called knowledge.

Actually since there is nothing that could ever prove them wrong they are in fact right by default.

Now that's just stupid. And a logical fallacy, btw.

The games could have shown more synthetics trying to eradicate organic life. But the only ones shown like that are, again, the Reapers themselves. So I don't really believe them.
But it would have been totally possible to show the Reapers being right. Only they weren't.

They have a unfalsifiable hypothesis

Yes, finally you get it. In the established ME universe the Reapers cannot be right.

If you cant prove there is another way to protect all life without killing anything you have no ability, and no ground to stand on, to make an argument that someone doing the ONLY KNOWN WAY to save things is wrong.

It has still to be established that all organic life is in danger.
The only prove for that lies in the words of the star kid, whom you believe and I don't.

Also as pointed out before the Reapers are not synthetic, the are organic synthetic hybrids.

Prove that.

 

[fatmrbunko]

well if what the god child said was true then they did it because if they didnt other synthetics would wipe out all life and then they wouldnt have any organics to harvest so really theyre competing with other synthetics and have created the cycle to ensure there are always a vast amount oforganics and their technology to harvest because they can harvest the ones around while ensuring there will beons in future in other words sustainability with the 50000 years there to ensure noone knows about them and arent prepared to stop them

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Actually the movie end Of Evangelion is considered to be "the outside of Shinji's head" events of the shows ending.
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No I am not being ridiculous because you claim Sovereign said he an The Reapers hate organic life, yet they never did and you have failed to bring up any examples of them saying they did.

You are making a claim, yet offering no evidence to support it. Ironic that you are hating on The Catalyst for the same thing.

also hypocritical.
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And yet you have provided nothing to prove that ISN'T fact either.

If you cant prove it isn't a fact you cant say it isn't, and cant tell people they are wrong for saying it is.
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And again the aryin race is ONE SPECIFIC SUBSET of life, the Reapers DONT TARGET ANY SPECIFIC SUBSET and instead KILL ALL LIFE.

Your inability to tell the difference between protecting only a specific subset of life and all life is frankly astoundingly pathetic and frankly scary.
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If by "common knowledge" you mean, "your own twisted views of how anything that resulting in genocide MUST be Nazi related" sure.
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The Reapers having a unfalsifiable hypothesis doesn't not make them wrong. It makes them impossible to prove wrong.

There is a very large difference which you seem to be unable to understand
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I could easily point to all of humanities past that proves lasting peace in impossible, and synthetics lack of needs for organics, and the eventuality of war to show that a organic synthetic war is inevitable.

Furthermore the lack of need of Organics by Synthetics makes is exceedingly possible that they might just decide to whie us out.
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http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
first line
"The Reapers, known by the geth as the Old Machines, are a highly advanced machine race of synthetic/organic starships"

 

[SajuukKhar]

No. It's like you seeing a single butterfly and assuming all bugs are dandy and then go up to the farmer to tell him that he's wasting his time killing bugs because bugs are beautiful and help pollinate plants.

I get it's a shift in perspective and a lot of people are caught off-guard by suddenly someone busting in and telling you all your effort was a waste of time because even if you could stop the synthetic plague once through diplomacy, it will just happen over and over again and one day you will fail and that when that day comes all life as we know it will end forever. I know it's jarring and it's painful because the game did so well to convince you that you were right and that you could protect your galaxy but that was the point. It's supposed to be hard to swallow and it's supposed to shatter everything you believed. That's what a twist ending is and that's what you should have probably expected might happen in a sci-fi epic, a genre notorious for ham-fisted twist endings.

I agree with you, I was pointing out why other people dont get it.

However just being told "your wrong" is still shitty writing, even if it is somewhat logically sound.

The Anti-spirals in Tengen Toppa at least told Simon why he was wrong, why his fight was meaningless, they showed him examples of past spiral races who tired to fight them and failed, which is why no one hated the ending.

All bioware would have had to do was put up some holoscreens of synthetics killing organics in the background, and The Catalyst saying something like "these are the thousands of races across time that have failed to stop Synthetics, many of them much more advanced then you. What hope could you possibly have?"

or something similar to give his position some credit. That right there could have possibly prevented a fuck ton of this controversy from happening.

 

[go-10]

The Reapers were originally built as a super AI capable of reasoning and making its own decisions while maintaining a neutral balance of all things, as time and technology advance they started to see the balance falling apart and they concluded a mass extermination would give the galaxy another chance, this in effect created a cycle in which the Reapers are constantly looking for peace and perfection among all the races and in order to better study and understand the new life forms they assimilate to whatever species develops through the 50K years, which for whatever reason they understand is the allotted time to achieve perfection, and being a computer at the end of the day their solution for everything always ends up being "master reset"

 

[MomoElektra]

snip

Actually the movie end Of Evangelion is considered to be "the outside of Shinji's head" events of the shows ending.

Relevance?

No I am not being ridiculous because you claim Sovereign said he an The Reapers hate organic life, yet they never did and you have failed to bring up any examples of them saying they did.

Pearls before swines. I'm just lazy.

You are making a claim, yet offering no evidence to support it. Ironic that you are hating on The Catalyst for the same thing.

also hypocritical.

Interesting. You had no problem with it when you did it.

And yet you have provided nothing to prove that ISN'T fact either.

Ehm, sure I did. There is still organic life in the galaxy. What more proof do you need?

If you cant prove it isn't a fact you cant say it isn't, and cant tell people they are wrong for saying it is.

It's impossible to prove a negative. But I can say that your position is only approved by the star child and disproved by game lore.

Wonder if your tactic works the other way around, too:

You can't prove I am wrong, so you must accept that I am right.
Does it work yet?

And again the aryin race is ONE SPECIFIC SUBSET of life, the Reapers DONT TARGET ANY SPECIFIC SUBSET and instead KILL ALL LIFE.

Ehm, I believe you made a little error here that will bite you in the butt.
The Reapers kill all technologically advanced organic life, which is a subset of all life.
And if, as you say, the Reapers kill all life you cannot at the same time have them saving all (organic) life. Choose wisely.

Your inability to tell the difference between protecting only a specific subset of life and all life is frankly astoundingly pathetic and frankly scary.

I have no problem with that thought as such, I mean it's not difficult. I consider it barbaric and uneconomic, and stupid and what not. But I can tell the difference. So what?

If by "common knowledge" you mean, "your own twisted views of how anything that resulting in genocide MUST be Nazi related" sure.

Where do you pull the "related" from? I never said it was related to the Nazis. I said there are similarities, in thought and action.

The Reapers having a unfalsifiable hypothesis doesn't not make them wrong. It makes them impossible to prove wrong.

Yes, no objection. It also makes you defending an unfalsifiable hypothesis that leads to genocide. You defend genocide (if fictional). Now who's scary?

There is a very large difference which you seem to be unable to understand

Name it.

I could easily point to all of humanities past that proves lasting peace in impossible, and synthetics lack of needs for organics, and the eventuality of war to show that a organic synthetic war is inevitable.

If you could you would have done already and you have been pointed out for the flaws in your logic many times, by several people. So I don't think you can.

Furthermore the lack of need of Organics by Synthetics makes is exceedingly possible that they might just decide to whie us out.

Synthetics need organics to invent them. Why should they hate their creator?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
first line
"The Reapers, known by the geth as the Old Machines, are a highly advanced machine race of synthetic/organic starships"

Ah, well. So the only group wiping out organic life is not the synthetics, but a synthetic/organic hybrid? Interesting way to still prove my point that the Reapers are the problem, not organics or synthetics.

 

[Unsilenced]

The only thing that even comes close to evidence in favor of the Reapers is statements from the Reapers.

This would not hold up in court.

Think about it, you're about to shank an entire civilization in the gut for it's shoes. What do you tell it?

"Oh yeah. We, like, need to do this. Totally. All sorts of destiny and shit up in here. You wouldn't understand."

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

It is relevant because you tried to make out the movie as being a different ending to the shows ending, which it wasn't. Or have you forgotten what you yourself typed?

Hypocrite

Except I haven't done it

Only because The reapers have prevented synthetics from killing all organics between then and now. So the fact that organic life still exists can be used to prove the reaper's cycle works.

Excet nothing in the games lore proves the Catalyst wrong. Making peace with the geth does not ensure the peace will last, that the geth wont kill all organics one day, that future synthetics can be reasoned with, that future synthetics wont try to kill everything. there is literally NOT A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that proves the reapers wrong.

The difference is that the reapers do not pick their targets based on hate, or a belief that they are somehow worse then The Reapers, or a belief that primitive organic life is better then advanced organic life. Which is something the Nazis did

You seem to not be able to tell the difference based on your repeated assertions that Reapers = Nazis

dont even try to claim you didn't say the Reapers were like nazis or that their ideals weren't related to them, because you did.

Defending genocide in fiction shows nothing about my beliefs of it, or things related to it, IRL, so I dont see how it would make me scary. Beyond that all options in the Me series lead to some genocide eventually, its what level of severity you want that is in debate

Being able to prove someone wrong means you can debunk their statement as being not true. For a unfalsifiable hypothesis it is impossible to prove it not true, thus you cannot prove them wrong, and thus you can't claim that they are. The fact that it realizes on a fallacy is irrelevant. If someone were to say there is a invisible, intangible horse that cant be observed by any means in the middle of a room you cannot prove them wrong and cant say that they are wrong, and you cant say someone who believes that they are right is wrong.

Except no one has disproved my statement of lasting peace being impossible is wrong, no one has disproved my statement that there would eventually be some reason, be is resources, a hate crime, or something else, that would eventually cuase a war, and no one has disproved that even if THAT war is one there wouldn't be a war in the future organics lose. NOTHING has been disproved.

Because organics are naturally intolerant of anything that isn't them, and said intolerance leads to hate and violence against things they dont like, and given enough violence synthetics may eventually conclude that despite being created organics, said organic aggressions is too dangerous and unpredictable for synthetics to be able to reasonably secure their kind from violence

Except I haven't proved your point at all. If anything the fact that organics still live could be used as evidence for the Reapers cycle working, and thus them being right.

 

[MomoElektra]

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

 

[Acton Hank]

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.[/quot

snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

The ending actually made something good come out of Jack and Jill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ald_TeYZDw

 

[Something Amyss]

Because Ponies.

Would make sense, maybe their bio-synthetic material tends to degrade and they need organics to "buff up" and stay intact.

Which is fine, provided you ignore canon.

But quite frankly they don't need a reason, least one they feel the need to share with us.

Which is fine as long as you're not telling a story with intended answers.

That made the Reapers both mysterious and terrifying, like they existed on a plane of thinking that we couldn't comprehend and were so much more powerful than us, like they treated us how we treat ants.

Or they just made us think "Fridge Logic," because that's what it was.

Even worse when the God-Child was introduced, because it indicates they are designed by someone who is ostensibly superior, yet both illogical and willing to deem you worthy of communication and explanation.

EDIT: You know what made the Reapers mysterious and terrifying? A lack of information and BIG HONKING SPACE SQUIDS. Higher thinking was unnecessary and poorly done.

 

[kasperbbs]

For sport of course! See who can squash more tiny humans!

 

[Killertje]

The reapers did it because they were programmed to. By the startwat. Because he is the VI of a 5 year old with flawed logic.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

They are more like collectors, except they collect whole races and make them reapers. I guess they see it as saving older races although they have yet to say if races agreed to it or are able to communicate freely as a reaper. Can a reaper speak for the race its made of? Or is the race just the bricks and mortar and nothing else?