It was? Ugh...I get the feeling that everyone who read the leaked scripts and complained were really trolls trying to get BioWare to replace it with a much shittier ending. Fucking leaks, man. What is up with this industry not being able to keep their games locked down before release?Innegativeion said:
I find it funny you try to make the point they should just stop but dont even attempt to provide any means in which the Reapers could protect the galaxy without killing everyone.MomoElektra said:
But, apparently, the Reapers are an exception to the synthetic rule. For some reason. They can cull organisms for resources and the "survival" of the galaxy, but other synthetics wouldn't be able to do this task, nor would organics that rise to the challenge.Buretsu said:
(Just quoting you, because I'm interested in your counter. What makes the Reapers so special in this respect?)SajuukKhar said:
You cite Shepard's actions. In face of the galaxy's actions. EDI does not count, you can't bring her with you for proof and she is the way she is because of Shepard presumably, who has had a profound effect on his entire crew and everyone he meets. In response, The Stargazer would cite the Geth, who you may or may not have made allies with. But even having made the Geth your allies, you have done so far too late, and only for the sole purpose of fighting the Reapers. The Quarians were about to start a war with the Geth regardless of anything you did in 2, so their actions would have led to the "organics never learn, all they want is slaves!" reaction from the Geth, were it not for Shepard's intervention. Even so, Shepard only intervened to stop the Reaapers, and that alliance would have dissolved the moment the Reapers were done with. The Heretics sided with the Reapers because they had given up on organics, and they were getting ready to infect all other Geth with a rewrite virus to make them do the same. You mix the "should be" with the "is" in your argument. The Geth WERE about to repeat the cycle, which is all the proof the Reapers need. Hell, maybe it was the Geth uprising that prompted Sovereign to attempt calling the others. Maybe it is Sovereign observing Synthetic rebellion on a massive scale that prompts it to initiate the cycle. Shepard's case is completely invalid to the Stargazer in face of the testimonial of the Geth and countless prior cycles. Organics are the defendants, the Geth are the plaintiffs, and the judge just so happens to be a Synthetic that has witnessed cycle after cycle of anti-synthetic hate crime. No one is saying Stargazer is unbiased. A former slave is likely to hate all slaveowners, and there's reason enough to conjecture that the cycle started in the same manner with the proto-Reapers and Stargazer being the first AI race successful in wiping out (most) organic life. Perhaps the Reaper cycles are the Stargazer's twisted way of getting redemption. Not that it's in any way right, just that its reasons do seem to make sense from its perspective.NinjaDeathSlap said:
How/why is it logical for the Reapers to destroy other synthetics, the logic being that other synthetics will inevitably try to destroy ALL organics if they don't? Won't the Reapers, being synthetic, fall to the same error in logic as well? Or, if not, why couldn't other synthetics eventually reach the same state of "enlightenment" that the Reapers have?SajuukKhar said:
The Reapers aren't synthetics though.............They are organic/synthetic hybrids.chadachada123 said:
Conversely, the Quarians were winning that conflict until the Reapers gave the Geth a tech boost, and even after the fact the Geth still didn't ever seem to bear the Quarians any ill-will. The war in ME3 was purely reactionary and in the interest of self-defense.Nieroshai said:
You never talked to Legion in ME2, did you? The Heretics sided with the Reapers because the Reapers offered them the technology needed to accomplish their goals[footnote]Legion: "The heretics seek improvement from the Old Machines. In return they help them attack organics. We condemn these judgements."[/footnote]. Legion also strongly implies that much of the things that made the Heretics into definitive enemies occured after Nazara brought them under its sway[footnote]See Legion's shock at the fact that the heretics were secretively spying on the Geth, a concept that was beyond its comprehension due to the way Geth always operated beforehand[/footnote], and that the Geth in general have no interest in fighting organics[footnote]Legion: "The Geth believe all intelligent life should self-determinate. The Heretics no longer share this belief"[/footnote][footnote]Legion: "We judged that Shepherd-Commander would understand. We never wanted to harm organics. We wish to improve ourselves"[/footnote]which itself is a key element of their characterization, as furthered by the fact that mere moments after the war ended in ME3 the Geth informed the Quarians that they were free to return to Rannoch.Nieroshai said:
Nazara did indeed contact the Geth after learning of the Mourning War, but they were but one of many attempts to gain allies,[footnote]Legion: "Like the Geth, Nazarh listened to organic radio transmissions. It knew of our war against the creators. Nazara contacted many species over the millenia, seeking allies."[/footnote] with the Geth merely being the most recent attempt. (Note: The Morning War happened approximately 300 years prior). According to Legion, Nazara had been trying to bring in the Reapers for upwards of a thousand years.Nieroshai said:
Eh, no. Nazara's experience with the Geth works very much against its premise[footnote]Legion: "We bear no malice towards organics. You are different, but we accept you"[/footnote], as they overwhelmingly[footnote]When Legion retrieves an audio file from the Geth experience, EDI describes the collective minds of the True Geth as being unfathomably large, comparable in scope to a galactic arm. Conversely, Legion's estimate of the number of Heretic Geth on their station during their loyalty mission to number in the billions, an easily conceivable number[/footnote] rejected its offer and condemned the idea of fighting organics, and those who agreed to fight organics with Nazara did so due to Nazara bribing them[footnote]As described by Legion, which reflected on a time before the Heretics developed deceit[/footnote]. By a similar token, those few cases we are aware of similarly cast doubt on the claim in one way or another. The claim consists of two parts, the first being rebellion, the second being genocide of all organic life. The first may have some precidence, but the second has never been proven, and given the available data has never been close to being true as organics have either overpowered synthetics (as the Protheans were doing in their cycle) or tried to avoid needless conflict altogether (as is the case with the Geth[footnote]Legion: "Anger is an organic response. We understand the theory, but we do not experience it. We do not judge the creators' anger towards us. We did them great harm in the Morning War...We accept the creators' hate. We hold their world of origin, though we are only caretakers for it."[/footnote][footnote]Legion: "Organic life acts on emotions. We do not judge them for being true to their nature. We cannot make them think like us. Both creators and created must complete their halves of the equation. The Geth cannot solve for peace alone"[/footnote]Nieroshai said:
I should hope not.Nieroshai said:
Given the nature of the Reapers[footnote]Again borrowing Legion's phrasing: "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies"[/footnote] as it seems far more plausible that the Reapers were an organic response than a synthetic one, possibly a last resort against the synthetics of its cycle. All things considered, it seems most probable that the filter the Catalyst uses is based on the results of the cycle it and the Reapers originated in (likely carrying over that race's hatred of synthetics), and I'd venture to guess that it never tested other organics' results. Under this interpretation the Catalyst's actions would be based on belief that later organic races would take the same paths that the first race did, which it feared led to destruction. Ironically, the Reapers' modus operendi largely focused on ensuring that other races would develop as their own technology had, making it a designed self-fulfilling prophecy.Nieroshai said:
I've only played ME1, but anyway, I was under the impression that they were just synthetics made from organic material, guess not.SajuukKhar said:
Organics really couldn't do that job themselves because organics need machines, however machines dont need organics.chadachada123 said:
The distinction is noted, but ultimately irrelevant.Nieroshai said:
So keeping organic life contentiously going = organic life being killed off completely?XenonZaleo said:
I simply don't know where you're pulling this from, as it's not supported in game. While it's true that the reapers are made using the organic components of an organic race, this doesn't make them sythetic/organic hybrids. A human is made out of the same atoms as a rock, but humans are not human/rock hybrids. A more direct example would be Iron, which is something that every person has in their body, but extracting all the iron from my body and making a Hammer out of it would not make that Hammer a Human/Hammer Hybrid. It's just a hammer.SajuukKhar said:
Except it's not continually going, it's being eradicated. It's just being eradicated in a queue system. You're argument is like saying the Reapers didn't eradicate all of Prothean life because it took them centuries to eradicate all Prothean life. The fact that some Protheans were born and died without the reapers harvesting them meant Prothean life "went on". The reapers are eradicating all organic life, they're just taking a break every so often.SajuukKhar said:
