Bioshock was an alright game and it kept me on the edge of my seat because the only thing that makes me jump is melee'd while im sneaking around. It's just creepy but I played it as more of an FPS most of the time. The only thing I really hated was that before you get all your guns taken away then get them back i had full ammo for all my guns then for the rest of the game i was almost always struggling to feed my guns. No matter how hard I tried I could never just have enough ammo to feel safe but that may of been the point.
Am I the only the only person who thought that Bioshock was deeply average?
Sure the story was decent with a few cool plot twists but that didn't make up for the tedious gameplay which became boring and repetitive. People kept on praising the story when games like Fallout and Mass Effect's story is 10x better. They also have better gameplay. I don't hate the game, I'm just pretty underwhelmed.
Does anyone else think it was average or do you think it was great?
I loved it. Basically the plus's for me were the story (obvious), unique and amazing setting, how the audio tapes and radio meant the story, world and characters were explained without interrupting gameplay (something I wish every game that isn't a pure rpg would also do), the horror/pacing were done very nicely and the character growth. Compare that to basically any other single player FPS released in the past 5 years and it will almost always be favorably comparable. Yes if you chose to limit yourself to the same combo of moves over and over you might find it repetitive, but is it really that much more repetitive than aiming and shooting in other FPS's?
The only disappointments for me was the way the middle levels played out (the whole go here just kidding, go through a detour in Narnia) and the hacking (which was tedious if that's what you were referring too).
Comparing Mass Effect and Fallout with Bioshock is like comparing apples and oranges, they are very different types of games. While Bioshock does have more RPG elements than most FPS's you shouldn't go into it expecting something like those games. The ones you should be comparing it to are other FPS's with some character growth/xp/upgrades.
The gameplay was really great for the first few hours but it did get a bit repetitive during the middle sections. I basically did the freeze/shoot combo for most of the game. I wish the game would've had situations that forced you into changing up your tactics. Later in the game, I choose to start using the wrench and with all the right tonics stacked, the wrench was so overpowered.
This is what I am talking about, gamers over dependence on "hand-holding".
EVEN IF BORED you won't try anything new until it is SO LONG into the game! You say you have to be forced by game design to try something you want to try anyway. How about you actually use the freedom that is given to you than demand that other freedoms are taken away for you to try them.
Why weren't you trying all the weapons at a steadier pace?
Limit himself? How is willingly trying out NEW THINGS a LIMITATION?!?!? What he is saying is the game SHOULD have limited him, and FORCED him to use different weapons/plasmids and combos rather than just trying them himself out of sheer boredom/curiosity.
He WAS limiting himself by his nonsensical refusal to try new combos till he was bored to the point of quitting. Gamers today are so dependant on hand-holding, it is beyond their comprehension to try something without being rail-roaded into it. I am arguing AGAINST limitation, both the player's own limitation (to stick with familiar weapons) and also Against any idea that developers should limit the game to force you to try new things.
There was no bad game design, except for all the games previously that has gamers "raised in captivity" unable to think for themselves in games they aren't ready to appreciated freedom when it is given to them. And they call it bad game design.
The gameplay was fun if a bit rough, but where it shined was in its rich atmosphere and aesthetic that made the city of Rapture feel like it was alive.
Plus I liked its philosophy.
got the game last month on Steam for $20, mostly because id seen BioShock: Rapture (the prequel in novel form) and was really interested by the story. after playing the game for a couple days, got through the entire thing, which made me happy. was a single playthrough worth the $20? barely. id say that while the game was rather fun, it did get old after a while and i had to spend a lot of money buying ammo because i kept running out. the graphics surprised me, mostly because i didnt need to turn them down on my laptop.XD
all in all, the game was worth the trouble of downloading it with DSL, but i really wish id gotten it on a Steam sale instead of at the $20 norm. the story was really good, though.xD
Sorry it isn't an incredibly linear game that leads you by the hand like Cowadooty, telling you all there is to do.
The combat has incredible depth, but if you don't seek it out (easy if you play on childlike easy setting) then you will not appreciate it.
(1) did you max out research for each enemy type (including turrets and bots)?
(2) did you specialise in any tonics?
(3) did you try new ways of hunting the big daddy?
(5) Did you customise controls in any way to fit your playstyle?
(6) did you bother reading any of the audio-logs or even think about mise-en-scene?
(7) Did you draw a plasmid upgrade plan?
(8) Did you ever select a new plasmid power on the fly? (such as select TK and grab grenade out of air to throw back!)
(9) Did you hack any machine to use as an ally?
and finally:
(10) do you love Michael Bay's 'Transformers' movies.
If that last answer is a yes, or no to even half of 1-9 I'll know where to file your crazy opinion: as utterly irrelevant.
Yeah, it's not a sandbox game like GTA4 but it is as open as an underwater city under lockdown can be. You even have bathyspheres to travel between each district. You are given so many options and if you are unimaginative you can use the same guns and plasmids over and over again depriving yourself.
You've got nothing but nonsense double-talk. You say Up is Down, Left is Right and expect us to agree with you because you seem to confuse respect for difference of opinion with recognition or arbitrarily contrarian opinions.
You also realise that 6/10 IS below average (average score for video games is 7.5/10 and that's a fact). Though you seem to be in the habit of diverging from all common sense and conventions.
6/10 game would be something like Gangsters 2: Vendetta [http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/gangsters-2-vendetta]
You know full well that 6/10 is a shit score, for shit games. So what the hell are you doing?
You know it is against forum rules to be blatantly flaming?
Justice4L said:
Mikkelet said:
Of all the silly, irrelevant threads/topics I every so often see on the Escapist, this takes the prize. Did you really need to create a topic just for this? Anyway, the game has just done alot of things correctly, such as gameplay, story, aestetics and more. I wasn't overwhelmed by Dragon Age either, but I really don't feel like making a topic for it.
You explain how Bioshock is as bad as "Dark Void", "Rio (the game of the movie)" or "Crash: Mind over Mutant"? Because that is what you are saying when you say it is a 6/10 game, those are also 6/10 games!
I'm not going to argue with a philistine, it is 'pearls before swine'.
If you have REAL criticisms, I'd like to hear them. But all I seem to be getting for you is double talk, which I have seen before. You don't like this game for a reason you are too ashamed to admit, even to yourself.
I Don't Know what it is. You haven't explained your problem, just foisted your shallow conjecture on us and expect us to accept them as if they were our own opinions.
1-hit with incinerate -> flees to water, electrocute for extra high damage
2-Electro-bolt + wrench for 4x damage
3-nitro splicer throws grenade, catch with TK and throw back
4-houdini splicer disappears, launch Swarm to show where they form
5-use TK to catch fireball and throw back
6-hypnotise big daddy as an ally
7-hack turret or bots to use as allies
8-chased by thugish splicer, leap over trap bolt that he runs into
9-use enrage to turn one against group
10-kill enemy with a single headshot from revolver
11-sonic-boom blast enemies back and stuns them, finish off with wrench
12-Target dummy to cluster enemies then fire grenade into group
13-use bolt-gun for ultra-power shot with challenge of high arcing trajectory
14-hack medi-station, injured splicer uses it gets poisoned
15-cyclone trap with proximity mine on ceiling = what goes up, must explode
16-attach a load of proxy-mines to explosive barrel and fire at big-daddy for massive damage
17-deliberately fail hacking to summon security bots, then paint big-daddy with security-command to have him slowly whittled away without ever targeting you
18-balance different ammo types for almost every enemy, armour piercing for bots, AP for splicers
19-freeze and shatter quickly by throwing object at it with Tk
20-sprint close dodging fire to kill with a close range shotty blast.
THINK. Think about what is the problem, not just "It's not exactly like Fallout 3!!"
They really weren't. At least not if we're talking Fallout 3 and the original Mass Effect. The former had the boring story I've encountered in a game in quite some time, filled with bland characters, lame dialogue and events I couldn't really care less about (some of the side quests were better, but the main story was poorly written and poorly told). Mass Effect on the other hand was basically riffing off of every common sci-fi trope you can name and not even doing it in a very original way. The entire story was fairly predictable and seemed like it was just going through the motions.
On the other hand, I can at least give Bioshock credit for producing an interesting and original world to explore, with equally interesting characters and at least one major plot twist which I found not only thought provoking, but doubt anyone would have really predicted.
My praise for the game pretty much ends there though. The gameplay was mediocre at best, and any potential plasmids had to let you mix and match powers for interesting effects and emergent gameplay was squandered by the fat that you could beat pretty much anything without them at all and switching between them was cumbersome at best. There was a lot of potential on the gameplay front and they squandered pretty much all of it.
Sorry it isn't an incredibly linear game that leads you by the hand like Cowadooty, telling you all there is to do.
The combat has incredible depth, but if you don't seek it out (easy if you play on childlike easy setting) then you will not appreciate it.
(1) did you max out research for each enemy type (including turrets and bots)?
(2) did you specialise in any tonics?
(3) did you try new ways of hunting the big daddy?
(5) Did you customise controls in any way to fit your playstyle?
(6) did you bother reading any of the audio-logs or even think about mise-en-scene?
(7) Did you draw a plasmid upgrade plan?
(8) Did you ever select a new plasmid power on the fly? (such as select TK and grab grenade out of air to throw back!)
(9) Did you hack any machine to use as an ally?
and finally:
(10) do you love Michael Bay's 'Transformers' movies.
If that last answer is a yes, or no to even half of 1-9 I'll know where to file your crazy opinion: as utterly irrelevant.
Yeah, it's not a sandbox game like GTA4 but it is as open as an underwater city under lockdown can be. You even have bathyspheres to travel between each district. You are given so many options and if you are unimaginative you can use the same guns and plasmids over and over again depriving yourself.
You've got nothing but nonsense double-talk. You say Up is Down, Left is Right and expect us to agree with you because you seem to confuse respect for difference of opinion with recognition or arbitrarily contrarian opinions.
You also realise that 6/10 IS below average (average score for video games is 7.5/10 and that's a fact). Though you seem to be in the habit of diverging from all common sense and conventions.
6/10 game would be something like Gangsters 2: Vendetta [http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/gangsters-2-vendetta]
You know full well that 6/10 is a shit score, for shit games. So what the hell are you doing?
You know it is against forum rules to be blatantly flaming?
Justice4L said:
Mikkelet said:
Of all the silly, irrelevant threads/topics I every so often see on the Escapist, this takes the prize. Did you really need to create a topic just for this? Anyway, the game has just done alot of things correctly, such as gameplay, story, aestetics and more. I wasn't overwhelmed by Dragon Age either, but I really don't feel like making a topic for it.
You explain how Bioshock is as bad as "Dark Void", "Rio (the game of the movie)" or "Crash: Mind over Mutant"? Because that is what you are saying when you say it is a 6/10 game, those are also 6/10 games!
I'm not going to argue with a philistine, it is 'pearls before swine'.
If you have REAL criticisms, I'd like to hear them. But all I seem to be getting for you is double talk, which I have seen before. You don't like this game for a reason you are too ashamed to admit, even to yourself.
I Don't Know what it is. You haven't explained your problem, just foisted your shallow conjecture on us and expect us to accept them as if they were our own opinions.
1-hit with incinerate -> flees to water, electrocute for extra high damage
2-Electro-bolt + wrench for 4x damage
3-nitro splicer throws grenade, catch with TK and throw back
4-houdini splicer disappears, launch Swarm to show where they form
5-use TK to catch fireball and throw back
6-hypnotise big daddy as an ally
7-hack turret or bots to use as allies
8-chased by thugish splicer, leap over trap bolt that he runs into
9-use enrage to turn one against group
10-kill enemy with a single headshot from revolver
11-sonic-boom blast enemies back and stuns them, finish off with wrench
12-Target dummy to cluster enemies then fire grenade into group
13-use bolt-gun for ultra-power shot with challenge of high arcing trajectory
14-hack medi-station, injured splicer uses it gets poisoned
15-cyclone trap with proximity mine on ceiling = what goes up, must explode
16-attach a load of proxy-mines to explosive barrel and fire at big-daddy for massive damage
17-deliberately fail hacking to summon security bots, then paint big-daddy with security-command to have him slowly whittled away without ever targeting you
18-balance different ammo types for almost every enemy, armour piercing for bots, AP for splicers
19-freeze and shatter quickly by throwing object at it with Tk
20-sprint close dodging fire to kill with a close range shotty blast.
THINK. Think about what is the problem, not just "It's not exactly like Fallout 3!!"
I don't really like it when people flame at me when they do not properly read what I am saying, anyway... I honestly believe it is a 6/10 game and that is MY opinion not yours but MINE. The whole point of this thread is to see other people's opinions, not to just, well do what you just did. If you like the game, so be it, good for you but don't try to put my opinion down because it conflicts with yours. My opinion is clear, it is average, it is not convoluted or hard to understand. An opinion is common sense as it is my own and to be quite fair Rio the game is a masterpiece of modern technology (jkes). I would be a philistine if I said all art was terrible and deserved to be burnt but I didn't. I said one game was just deeply average, nothing more.
They really weren't. At least not if we're talking Fallout 3 and the original Mass Effect. The former had the boring story I've encountered in a game in quite some time, filled with bland characters, lame dialogue and events I couldn't really care less about (some of the side quests were better, but the main story was poorly written and poorly told).
Sorry it isn't an incredibly linear game that leads you by the hand like Cowadooty, telling you all there is to do.
The combat has incredible depth, but if you don't seek it out (easy if you play on childlike easy setting) then you will not appreciate it.
(1) did you max out research for each enemy type (including turrets and bots)?
(2) did you specialise in any tonics?
(3) did you try new ways of hunting the big daddy?
(5) Did you customise controls in any way to fit your playstyle?
(6) did you bother reading any of the audio-logs or even think about mise-en-scene?
(7) Did you draw a plasmid upgrade plan?
(8) Did you ever select a new plasmid power on the fly? (such as select TK and grab grenade out of air to throw back!)
(9) Did you hack any machine to use as an ally?
and finally:
(10) do you love Michael Bay's 'Transformers' movies.
If that last answer is a yes, or no to even half of 1-9 I'll know where to file your crazy opinion: as utterly irrelevant.
Yeah, it's not a sandbox game like GTA4 but it is as open as an underwater city under lockdown can be. You even have bathyspheres to travel between each district. You are given so many options and if you are unimaginative you can use the same guns and plasmids over and over again depriving yourself.
You've got nothing but nonsense double-talk. You say Up is Down, Left is Right and expect us to agree with you because you seem to confuse respect for difference of opinion with recognition or arbitrarily contrarian opinions.
You also realise that 6/10 IS below average (average score for video games is 7.5/10 and that's a fact). Though you seem to be in the habit of diverging from all common sense and conventions.
6/10 game would be something like Gangsters 2: Vendetta [http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/gangsters-2-vendetta]
You know full well that 6/10 is a shit score, for shit games. So what the hell are you doing?
You know it is against forum rules to be blatantly flaming?
Justice4L said:
Mikkelet said:
Of all the silly, irrelevant threads/topics I every so often see on the Escapist, this takes the prize. Did you really need to create a topic just for this? Anyway, the game has just done alot of things correctly, such as gameplay, story, aestetics and more. I wasn't overwhelmed by Dragon Age either, but I really don't feel like making a topic for it.
You explain how Bioshock is as bad as "Dark Void", "Rio (the game of the movie)" or "Crash: Mind over Mutant"? Because that is what you are saying when you say it is a 6/10 game, those are also 6/10 games!
I'm not going to argue with a philistine, it is 'pearls before swine'.
If you have REAL criticisms, I'd like to hear them. But all I seem to be getting for you is double talk, which I have seen before. You don't like this game for a reason you are too ashamed to admit, even to yourself.
I Don't Know what it is. You haven't explained your problem, just foisted your shallow conjecture on us and expect us to accept them as if they were our own opinions.
1-hit with incinerate -> flees to water, electrocute for extra high damage
2-Electro-bolt + wrench for 4x damage
3-nitro splicer throws grenade, catch with TK and throw back
4-houdini splicer disappears, launch Swarm to show where they form
5-use TK to catch fireball and throw back
6-hypnotise big daddy as an ally
7-hack turret or bots to use as allies
8-chased by thugish splicer, leap over trap bolt that he runs into
9-use enrage to turn one against group
10-kill enemy with a single headshot from revolver
11-sonic-boom blast enemies back and stuns them, finish off with wrench
12-Target dummy to cluster enemies then fire grenade into group
13-use bolt-gun for ultra-power shot with challenge of high arcing trajectory
14-hack medi-station, injured splicer uses it gets poisoned
15-cyclone trap with proximity mine on ceiling = what goes up, must explode
16-attach a load of proxy-mines to explosive barrel and fire at big-daddy for massive damage
17-deliberately fail hacking to summon security bots, then paint big-daddy with security-command to have him slowly whittled away without ever targeting you
18-balance different ammo types for almost every enemy, armour piercing for bots, AP for splicers
19-freeze and shatter quickly by throwing object at it with Tk
20-sprint close dodging fire to kill with a close range shotty blast.
THINK. Think about what is the problem, not just "It's not exactly like Fallout 3!!"
Alright what I have been saying is MY opinion. Not yours but MINE. If you like the game, fine but don't flame me because my opinions conflict with yours. I'm obviously new to maths because apparently 7.5/10 is the new 1/2. What I'm saying is I found the game average. It's not convoluted, it's very clear. The game is neither brilliant nor terrible. But hey, that is MY opinion. I'm glad yours is different otherwise the world would be boring. It just seems to me that you are defending the game without listening to my points.
The topic title was poorly worded. People may be annoyed by it. Just sayin'.
I personally loved BioShock, and I'm not a FPS fan at all. The story was pretty good, Rapture was a great place, Plasmids were fun (although I usually just one-hitted enemies with my wrench), and it was just generally a fun game. It wasn't scary in the slightest though, I don't get why people think it's a horror. I always found it closer to funny than scary.
Although, even as a BioShock lover, I can admit it does rip off System Shock 2 horrifically.
EDIT: Didn't know they had the same makers 'til now. Ignore that last comment.
The topic title was poorly worded. People may be annoyed by it. Just sayin'.
I personally loved BioShock, and I'm not a FPS fan at all. The story was pretty good, Rapture was a great place, Plasmids were fun (although I usually just one-hitted enemies with my wrench), and it was just generally a fun game. It wasn't scary in the slightest though, I don't get why people think it's a horror. I always found it closer to funny than scary.
Although, even as a BioShock lover, I can admit it does rip off System Shock 2 horrifically.
The gameplay was really great for the first few hours but it did get a bit repetitive during the middle sections. I basically did the freeze/shoot combo for most of the game. I wish the game would've had situations that forced you into changing up your tactics. Later in the game, I choose to start using the wrench and with all the right tonics stacked, the wrench was so overpowered.
This is what I am talking about, gamers over dependence on "hand-holding".
EVEN IF BORED you won't try anything new until it is SO LONG into the game! You say you have to be forced by game design to try something you want to try anyway. How about you actually use the freedom that is given to you than demand that other freedoms are taken away for you to try them.
Why weren't you trying all the weapons at a steadier pace?
Limit himself? How is willingly trying out NEW THINGS a LIMITATION?!?!? What he is saying is the game SHOULD have limited him, and FORCED him to use different weapons/plasmids and combos rather than just trying them himself out of sheer boredom/curiosity.
He WAS limiting himself by his nonsensical refusal to try new combos till he was bored to the point of quitting. Gamers today are so dependant on hand-holding, it is beyond their comprehension to try something without being rail-roaded into it. I am arguing AGAINST limitation, both the player's own limitation (to stick with familiar weapons) and also Against any idea that developers should limit the game to force you to try new things.
There was no bad game design, except for all the games previously that has gamers "raised in captivity" unable to think for themselves in games they aren't ready to appreciated freedom when it is given to them. And they call it bad game design.
He is saying there should be a reason to use the other plasmids instead of the ice combo and that is a perfectly valid point.
I love how you are trying to act all high and mighty in this games defence when in reality it is a dumbed down game itself, made for dumbed down gamers.
I'm reminded about something to do with a pot, kettles and black...
Look at System Shock 2, look at Bioshock. I hope you realise you have been insulting yourself as Bioshock does hold your hand and is dumbed down whether you want to admit it or not and that is the very thing you are against.
You don't seem to have played either. Nor thought particularly hard about what you are saying, just regurgitating the same narrow arguments the traditionalists have been using since 2007.
Bioshock doesn't hold your hand any more than System Shock 2.
You seem to be confusing:
"get rid of bullshit like your weapon dissolving after 10 shots"
___and___ "constrain the freedom of the player to compensate for poor player imagination"
You have just as much, actually MORE freedom in Bioshock! You don't have to be stuck along a particular path of plasmids/tonics, there is more CHOICE there to swap out and try different things! System Shock 2 limited things so much that you were forced to ignore whole aspects of gameplay to focus on a few areas specialising enough to make it through the game.
Bioshock gives so much freedom, in options and resources to explore those options.
Actually, Bioshock DOES give you occasion to try new things, like in Fontaine Fisheries you temporarily lose all your weapons but the wrench (keeping plasmids of course).
"He is saying there should be a reason to use the other plasmids"
There is, it's called endeavour. It's the reason Human Beings have created civilisation and travelled as far as The Moon while our Chimpanzee cousins are still shitting in trees.
The logic astounds me. He is bored of using just ice-combo, yet will not endeavour to try something new to break that monotony??!?!
"hmmm I'm sick of buying and eating this flavour of ice cream, yeah there are plenty of other flavours but I need someone to force me to try something new"
Do games REALLY need to pander to such foolishness?
The topic title was poorly worded. People may be annoyed by it. Just sayin'.
I personally loved BioShock, and I'm not a FPS fan at all. The story was pretty good, Rapture was a great place, Plasmids were fun (although I usually just one-hitted enemies with my wrench), and it was just generally a fun game. It wasn't scary in the slightest though, I don't get why people think it's a horror. I always found it closer to funny than scary.
Although, even as a BioShock lover, I can admit it does rip off System Shock 2 horrifically.
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