Why Dragon Age II Should Have Been a New IP
- Thread starter Krantos
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tos, he might be a sequel to God Of War 3.
ButEldarion said:
If your character dies, how are you supposed to continue the story of a dead person? And if your character didn't die, there is the fact that they are terminally ill. And they released witch hunt, which lets you explore what would happen if you killed the Archdemon but had the kid with Morrigan.
OT:I dont really mind what they've done with the game. Like Yahtzee has said, there are two types of sequels. Those that stagnate and give teh player more of what was in teh first game, and tehy suck. Or those that move forward and make changes. Sure it doesn't have the same feel as Origins, but I don't think it should have been a different IP.
Um, yeah, epic fantasy has been riffing off of Tolkien and Howard for over half a century now. It's not really fair to dump on DA for doing what most fantasy franchises across multiple media have done since the 1960s. It's the execution that matters, and DA had its innovations, like not making their dwarves and elves exactly like everyone else's.Krantos said:
The series is called Dragon Age, not "Grey Wardens" or "Darkspawn". The setting is the focus. I think it's perfectly legitimate for sequels to explore different stories with different characters in the same setting. I see the point of people who say it shouldn't have been called Dragon Age 2, maybe it should have been called Dragon Age: Hawke's Quest or Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall, but that's a minor quibble.
I don't agree. The core gameplay mechanics are not radically different, they only look different. It took all of 5 minutes to adjust to the minor changes. Flemeth is still Flemeth in voice and personality. She looks different but the first thing we learned about her in Origins is she's a shapeshifter, so that's hardly a radical change. We're still in Thedas with the same institutions and peoples, just a different part of Thedas. Unlike Mass Effect where every 3rd line makes reference to "Shepherd", NPCs in DA2 rarely address Hawke by name (except for random combat dialogue which I barely hear). The only real difference I find from DA:O is that a) my PC has a voice, and b) my family from the origin story is still around for the rest of the game. No, I can't play an elf or dwarf (not that I wanted to) but I couldn't play a qunari in the first game either.Krantos said:
And one thing that really bugs me: people complaining the weapons are too big and anime-esque. They're not. They're no bigger than they were in Origins, which by the way, referred to two-foot-long swords as "daggers" (which DA2 still does). In the real world, the Zweihänder could be 6 feet long, in a time when most people were 5 1/2 tall. Two-handed swords in DA2 are not excessively large.
Dragon Age is rapidly becoming the new Final Fantasy from the all the flames going around. You know I've heard these same arguments over Final Fantasy 12... And 11... And 10...
Jesus, Dragon Age III is going to cause a console vs. PC vs. iPad fucking holy war. Y'all realise the combat and levelling is EXACTLY the same as Origins, except now you can't zoom the camera back to the guy holding a shoddy cam-corder in some helicopter and you don't have to pick some shitty buff you don't want to get a more powerful ability.
So the conversation wheel that gives Hawke a voice and a new art style ALIENATES FANS OF THE FIRST ONE NOW ONLY TEH HALO FANBOIZ LIKES IT. I must have secretly hated origins then.
Jesus, Dragon Age III is going to cause a console vs. PC vs. iPad fucking holy war. Y'all realise the combat and levelling is EXACTLY the same as Origins, except now you can't zoom the camera back to the guy holding a shoddy cam-corder in some helicopter and you don't have to pick some shitty buff you don't want to get a more powerful ability.
So the conversation wheel that gives Hawke a voice and a new art style ALIENATES FANS OF THE FIRST ONE NOW ONLY TEH HALO FANBOIZ LIKES IT. I must have secretly hated origins then.
Rather than reply to the 5 new quotes since last night individually, I'm just going to make some blanket statements.
First off, you should know that I've modified my original stance. Rather than thinking it should be a new IP, I think they should have named it "Dragon Age: Something" rather than the 2.
This is based primarily on 2 points people brought up:
1. The world would be too similar to Dragon Age and would have led to people complaining about that instead. (RatRace123, pg 1)
2. Keeping it "Dragon Age" provided a lot of free marketing based on name recognition. (Starke, pg 1)
In regards to people saying it's not presented as a sequel because it doesn't have "Origins" in the title: What is it a sequel to then?
I'm sorry, but when you tack a 2 on the end of a title, it is assumed there was a 1 somewhere. Thus, since Origins is the only other Dragon Age game not browser based, it's safe to say DAII was intended as sequel.
First off, you should know that I've modified my original stance. Rather than thinking it should be a new IP, I think they should have named it "Dragon Age: Something" rather than the 2.
This is based primarily on 2 points people brought up:
1. The world would be too similar to Dragon Age and would have led to people complaining about that instead. (RatRace123, pg 1)
2. Keeping it "Dragon Age" provided a lot of free marketing based on name recognition. (Starke, pg 1)
In regards to people saying it's not presented as a sequel because it doesn't have "Origins" in the title: What is it a sequel to then?
I'm sorry, but when you tack a 2 on the end of a title, it is assumed there was a 1 somewhere. Thus, since Origins is the only other Dragon Age game not browser based, it's safe to say DAII was intended as sequel.
I'll say that I do understand your logic, but I think this is going more the way of Elder Scrolls. It's not meant to follow your character, but simply be sometime in the future, in another part, of the same world. I don't think it needed to be a new IP.
you should post this on the bioware forums if you havent already, this is probably the most sensible thing anyone has posted about DA2, that i've seen anyway.Krantos said:
That's actually pretty interesting, I was too caught up in playing and hadn't really considered that it might be his misconstrued view, rather than the precise actual events.Mushroom 118i said:
He was also arguing that the gameplay mechanics were dramatically changed, which pissed off the fanbase. I think it's great we aren't confined to Ferelden. What I do not think is great is that every single race in the game except the humans changed in design that they could be considered different races.Saelune said:
Now, I slightly changed that paragraph. Why did I do that?Krantos said:
Simply because of this: You cannot please all fans of a series.
Honestly, the above is how I actually feel about Fallout 3. I think it's an OK game. I played and beat it and enjoyed it. But it was a very poor Fallout sequel. It could have been called 'Fallout: Capital Wasteland', but they threw the '3' on there and thus marred the series with a sub-par FPS and sub-par RPG hybrid.
But that's me.
The game still sold very well, was greatly enjoyed by critics AND gamers alike.
Even I liked it as a game, just not as a Fallout sequel.
Dragon Age 2 is in the same boat. All the fans of Origins who feel 'betrayed' (Don't even get me started on that) hate what has been done, and the rest of us as just enjoying a great game. Maybe I could take a lesson from my experience with DA2 to lessen my distain for Fallout 3's poor name choice, but I have more of a history with Fallout 3.
Frankly, I find it hilarious that people are so hardcore defending a 'series' that is only 2 games right now. Something tells me people would be bitching about Dragon Age Origins if it was released after DA2. Why? Because some people just don't like change.
Now obviously some people genuinely don't like the game for what it is, regardless of Origins. That's fine. I don't like the Metal Gear series, or the Zelda series. Who cares? The biggest outrage over this game isn't coming from them, it's coming from the zealots who hate change and feel 'betrayed'. As if everything that was changed was, objectively, changed for the worse. What nonsense.
Really, if you don't like the game, don't like the game. But people bombing meta-critic and Amazon with user reviews that all say '1' isn't a mature, measured response. It's a childish tantrum. The rage over this game is beyond over-blown. It's just ridiculous now. Move on, people. Every argument and complaint has been heard, and those of us who like the game still like the game. It'll sell well, the critics have liked it, and the only people steaming over it is you.
Get over it. Go play something else.
I definitely agree with you that the rage has been overblown, but, hey, that's the internet for you. Like I said in an earlier post, with the exception of this thread, the most I've done to express my discontent is refuse to buy the game.Baby Tea said:
I also agree with you about the Fallout example. I've still yet to play the earlier Fallout games, but I do think the name was poorly chosen, given the number of changes it brought to the franchise.
The only problem I have is this thread is essentially dead. For one thing, it was never meant to bash the game. It was simply stating my opinion that the game should have been a new IP.
For another, my opinion has already changed. Several people brought up points I had not considered, which lead to the post farther up the page where I outlined my new opinion.
I appreciate your input, but it's a little after the fact. The conversation is more of less complete, and those of us that contributed seriously have come to a general consensus. If you can get people to renew the debate, go for it, but I'm afraid it will just degenerate into another flame thread if it continues.
I thought they should've just called it Dragon Age and played on the fact that Origins was a prequel setting up the world and the lore. That way people could know that your character isn't who was in Origins and that the game released in 2011 is the beginning of the real DA storyline.
