Why good writing is ignored in comedy

[Ryallen]

I've actually been wondering this for a while now, but it's only today that I've decided to actually ask people this question: Why do people ignore good writing when it's in the medium of a comedy, whereas people tend to jump onto the serious/straight-faced writing band wagon and cry to the clouds when it has good writing? Doesn't a good narrative, regardless of genre and medium, deserve to be praised?

My main three examples are the Nuzlocke Comics (the original comics, the ones made by the guy who invented Nuzlocke in general), Red vs. Blue, and, my strongest argument, Borderlands 2.

I acknowledge that the Nuzlocke comics might not have an original plotline (I honestly have no idea if they do, I don't watch Lost), but regardless I still find that some moments are genuinely funny and can even bring a tear to my eye, whereas more serious stories, such as Hunger Games, leave me bored and uninterested. Same thing with Red vs. Blue. Now, I might find some people who talk about how funny these stories are, but I never hear about how well-written they are. I never hear anyone say anything like "Yeah, Tiny Tina is actually a pretty deep character" or "Man, Red vs. Blue is pretty compelling". Instead it's just about how funny they are. Am I the only one who looks past their initial intentions and can actually see some depth to their stories? Or has no one just spoken up about this?

 

[Mezahmay]

I'll talk about this reply in terms of Red vs. Blue since I agree with you and actually know about that. For a comedy, I'd imagine people experience comedies primarily for the jokes instead of the story. When someone asks you if a comedy was good, you usually reply saying it was either really funny, kinda funny, or not really that funny. Being entertained by comedy does not have to rely as heavily on story as a drama would since the story or acting or whatever is what sticks with you in a drama.

In Red vs Blue's case, I think part of what makes the writing brilliant was how it evolved over time and weaved a lot of the throw away jokes and silly character traits into an overarching narrative, like why Church and Tex are the only ghosts, Tucker's kid, adding character to the original Project Freelancer team, etc. That kind of continuity in the writing takes time to pay off similar to reading the Harry Potter books on top of being good self contained stories.

 

[Ryallen]

I'll talk about this reply in terms of Red vs. Blue since I agree with you and actually know about that. For a comedy, I'd imagine people experience comedies primarily for the jokes instead of the story. When someone asks you if a comedy was good, you usually reply saying it was either really funny, kinda funny, or not really that funny. Being entertained by comedy does not have to rely as heavily on story as a drama would since the story or acting or whatever is what sticks with you in a drama.

In Red vs Blue's case, I think part of what makes the writing brilliant was how it evolved over time and weaved a lot of the throw away jokes and silly character traits into an overarching narrative, like why Church and Tex are the only ghosts, Tucker's kid, adding character to the original Project Freelancer team, etc. That kind of continuity in the writing takes time to pay off similar to reading the Harry Potter books on top of being good self contained stories.

Red vs. Blue is by far one of my favorite series on Youtube because of this reason. It managed to make me laugh unlike most things in a long time and, at the same time, made me actually like the characters as more than just simple jokes. But no one seemed to like the Freelancer saga because of the shift in tone. They complained that it lost its roots, whereas I just see it as a change in tone that was actually fairly natural, considering what they were doing in the first place. That is, attempting to fight to the death over control of the canyon with no real reason as to why and to what end.

 

[jonsnow7412]

That's a good question and I don't really have a good answer. The best television writers I can think of are the people behind arrested development, yet I don't recall the writers garnering any accolades. Another humorous game I can think of that didn't receive the writing recognition it deserved is the portal series, and also the stanley parable. It could be that we as a people are first attracted to comedy and action as children but as we get older we get into dramas more. That very act makes us think that those other genres are juvenile because we were young when we liked it more, and by extension give more credit to serious endeavors. I'd never thought about this before, but thanks for bringing it up as it is absolutely unfair for comedy writers.

 

[josemlopes]

Dude, Borderlands 2?

I can give you Red Vs Blue (from season 1 to 5 when they were very focused on comedy), they kind of remind me of french comedies where they just keep talking about nothing and that nothing always manages to be part of some cobweb of funny situations.

But Borderlands 2? That game had no pacing and most jokes were just "look at how outrageous I am", its as if every character was Zooey Deschanel. I think the worst part of it is that most dialog happened when shit was going down so the player cant really hear much when there are sounds of explosions around him.

For funny in games I would add Timesplitters Future Perfect, Matt Hazard (video since not many people know about it), Psychonauts, Grim Fandango and Typing of the Dead Overkill.

 

[Yuiiut]

On Borderlands 2: That game had average to slightly above average writing/plot. However, the issue is although the characters are 'deep' (which is debatable, but they do have background, motivations, habits and semi-consistent personalities), the way that they and their characterisation are presented is in a over the top fashion (aka, any of the characters intro videos). This makes them less sympathetic and the story feel less immersive. In a game like borderlands 2, this isn't an inherently bad thing, as the focus is on the mechanics/co-op nature of it. However, it does make the story less engaging-the characters are ridiculous (and hilarious), and therefore less immersive due to that. Take Handsome Jack for example-he's immensely, over-the-top cartoonishly evil, even after The Incident. This makes him entertaining to watch and observe, but he never feels like a credible threat outside of the game to anything-he espouses no world view etc that feels credible. Tiny Tina, to use your example, has consistent motivations and personality, but it's always used to build the comedy, rather than the story (Kill Jack. Kill Jack. Kiiiiiiill Jack. A poem, bu Tiny Tina).

TL;DR: Comedy, the way it's used in Borderlands, breaks immersion-which isn't inherently a negative thing, but means that an 'deep, serious' story can't really be told.

 

[GrimmjowPantera]

If you go on the Red vs Blue forum you'll see thousands of people discussing characterisation, plotting, themes and mysteries of the series. It's evolved way past just being seen as a comedy and none of my friends who watch it talk about it like it's just comedy.

I'm not familiar with your other examples.

But I definitely think that good writing in comedy is often well-received, especially satire and the like. You just need to know where to look for analysis of it

 

[MeatMachine]

I like that the first Nuzlocke Comic (Ruby) was pretty much just a well-written parody/"Let's Play" that here and there paralleled goofy things that happen in both Pokemon and Lost.

The second one (Red) ended up being a totally mind-blowing step-up to the first, in that it set up several interlocking original stories and had a very unexpected twist towards the end that was subtly teased in the first page.

That, and some of the in-jokes are VERY obscure, and pants-shittingly funny if you catch them.

Damn shame he disappeared off the face of the planet back in April halfway through the third comic, with absolutely no-one knowing what the hell happened.

 

[Mezahmay]

Red vs. Blue is by far one of my favorite series on Youtube because of this reason. It managed to make me laugh unlike most things in a long time and, at the same time, made me actually like the characters as more than just simple jokes. But no one seemed to like the Freelancer saga because of the shift in tone. They complained that it lost its roots, whereas I just see it as a change in tone that was actually fairly natural, considering what they were doing in the first place. That is, attempting to fight to the death over control of the canyon with no real reason as to why and to what end.

People seriously didn't like Freelancer saga animation? The use of 3D modeling allowed them to give the freelancers an engine to show off their badassery standard machinimating could only dream of. There's also season 8 episode 10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke9wtbzGjCI]. It speaks for itself.

 

[Ryallen]

Red vs. Blue is by far one of my favorite series on Youtube because of this reason. It managed to make me laugh unlike most things in a long time and, at the same time, made me actually like the characters as more than just simple jokes. But no one seemed to like the Freelancer saga because of the shift in tone. They complained that it lost its roots, whereas I just see it as a change in tone that was actually fairly natural, considering what they were doing in the first place. That is, attempting to fight to the death over control of the canyon with no real reason as to why and to what end.

People seriously didn't like Freelancer saga animation? The use of 3D modeling allowed them to give the freelancers an engine to show off their badassery standard machinimating could only dream of. There's also season 8 episode 10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke9wtbzGjCI]. It speaks for itself.

Believe it or not, people didn't like that it became less of a comedy and more of a drama. Or at least, the people that I talk to didn't like that. And that only further cements my point that people can't seem to like good writing in comedies.

 

[Something Amyss]

You mean plot, right? Because I tend to like jokes that are well written, a plot that is well written, etc. I'll forgive a shoddy plot or premise if the jokes are funny enough, but I don't forgive none. I put more emphasis on the comedy because that's generally the focus of a comedy piece.

Then again, if a drama is dramatic enough, I tend to ignore shoddy plot elements there, too.

its as if every character was Zooey Deschanel.

AHHHHHHHHH! Don't scare me like that!

 

[josemlopes]

Red vs. Blue is by far one of my favorite series on Youtube because of this reason. It managed to make me laugh unlike most things in a long time and, at the same time, made me actually like the characters as more than just simple jokes. But no one seemed to like the Freelancer saga because of the shift in tone. They complained that it lost its roots, whereas I just see it as a change in tone that was actually fairly natural, considering what they were doing in the first place. That is, attempting to fight to the death over control of the canyon with no real reason as to why and to what end.

People seriously didn't like Freelancer saga animation? The use of 3D modeling allowed them to give the freelancers an engine to show off their badassery standard machinimating could only dream of. There's also season 8 episode 10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke9wtbzGjCI]. It speaks for itself.

Believe it or not, people didn't like that it became less of a comedy and more of a drama. Or at least, the people that I talk to didn't like that. And that only further cements my point that people can't seem to like good writing in comedies.

I am one of those and I guess it contradicts your point because I dont think they write drama as well as comedy, that is why I abandoned RvB since the writing isnt as good now (to me at least).

 

[veloper]

The TS must mean: why BAD writing is ignored in comedy.
Good writing is far too rare in this medium to make generalizations about it's content.

Comedy is different from drama. Fiction that is very bad can still be (unintentionally) funny.
If the purpose is to make us laugh, then a straight up comedy succeeds when only the jokes work and everything else may still be shit.

Compare a serious work of fiction needs to be decent to good in all areas of plot, dialog, characterization, theme, message, pacing, etc. to be taken seriously. Fewer writers can pull it off.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Red vs. Blue is by far one of my favorite series on Youtube because of this reason. It managed to make me laugh unlike most things in a long time and, at the same time, made me actually like the characters as more than just simple jokes. But no one seemed to like the Freelancer saga because of the shift in tone. They complained that it lost its roots, whereas I just see it as a change in tone that was actually fairly natural, considering what they were doing in the first place. That is, attempting to fight to the death over control of the canyon with no real reason as to why and to what end.

People seriously didn't like Freelancer saga animation? The use of 3D modeling allowed them to give the freelancers an engine to show off their badassery standard machinimating could only dream of. There's also season 8 episode 10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke9wtbzGjCI]. It speaks for itself.

Believe it or not, people didn't like that it became less of a comedy and more of a drama. Or at least, the people that I talk to didn't like that. And that only further cements my point that people can't seem to like good writing in comedies.

I don't think people were that critical of Monty's talents as an animator (though RWBY shows he's definitely not great when left to his own devices) but that the series took a definite turn there, from sitcom to something else. Personally, I can compare RvB past season 5 to something like the American version of The Office, when they had fewer jokes and one-off shows set up for jokes, and more time lavished on non-comedic character development, the overarching plotlines, and testing their technical limits with more elaborate setpieces and action. RvB started as a comedy about a bunch of nobody soldiers 'fighting' each other in the middle of nowhere, and turned into a galactic conspiracy with grey undertones and heartbreak. You won't find people randomly turning out to be ghosts, or villains who cackle evilly and have a Spanish robot's head as a sidekick, or a bunch of red and blue fanatics murdering each other and being reborn only to do it again and again.

I still watch the show because I can appreciate it for what it is, but I liked it when there were simple jokes. The evolution happened naturally, but it wasn't necessary and it wasn't the only way to go. So it's not that people don't like good writing in comedies, but that they like comedies with good writing and don't like it when that comedy turns into something else.

 

[The Random Critic]

To answer the OP question in one condensed sentence

Because Comedy is much more difficult to pull off in writing.

It has to be very subtle about what it's trying to tell, without resorting to too much parodying/referencing. (Or offending it's intended/non intending joke target)

The Wolf of Wall Street is a rather good example, I think. (Also arguably the Blinding of Issac, in a more gameplay sense)

Spoiler

Still though, if anything shows on this site. Is that as far as games are concerned... writing is fairly subjective

 

[Ryallen]

Dude, Borderlands 2?

I can give you Red Vs Blue (from season 1 to 5 when they were very focused on comedy), they kind of remind me of french comedies where they just keep talking about nothing and that nothing always manages to be part of some cobweb of funny situations.

But Borderlands 2? That game had no pacing and most jokes were just "look at how outrageous I am", its as if every character was Zooey Deschanel. I think the worst part of it is that most dialog happened when shit was going down so the player cant really hear much when there are sounds of explosions around him.

For funny in games I would add Timesplitters Future Perfect, Matt Hazard (video since not many people know about it), Psychonauts, Grim Fandango and Typing of the Dead Overkill.

I do like the writing in Psychonauts, but I never really saw it as a comedy so much as just quirky. And yes, the writing in Borderlands 2 IS really good. The characters are all really well-fleshed out. Of all the characters in the game, only about three or four are actually over-the-top, and those characters would have to be Tiny Tina, Claptrap, and Tannis. Brick is debatable, though I can see how people would say that he's over the top. And all of those characters actually have pretty somber moments that reminded me that although they are all wacky and crazy, they aren't that way for no reason. Tannis, for instance, has her mission in the Caustic Caverns. She explains why all of these bandits and other people are here, and her finishing line is really what made me realize how hellish Pandora is, and how badly broken each of the people are. That there is method to this madness, and it's one hell of a depressing method. Tiny Tina actually has a pretty good reason for being crazy, in that she saw her parents being tortured before her own eyes before being forced to escape using a grenade she hid in her dress. Claptrap... well, he's at the very least lovable.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Its hard to balance teh srs bznss with comedy. Its not impossible but it takes a damn good writer to do so and tends to work better in books than movies/games. Depth usually gets sacrificed for laughs and the tradeoff is just fine. I mean why write a deep story if the person experiencing it is laughing too hard to notice the depth?
I mean comedy doesn't have to be shallow, but too deep and it misses the mark or gets lost in translation.

 

[ThreeName]

Believe it or not, people didn't like that it became less of a comedy and more of a drama. Or at least, the people that I talk to didn't like that. And that only further cements my point that people can't seem to like good writing in comedies.

Project Freelancer had terrible writing. And terrible characters. People do like good writing in comedy, but it would probably help if you actually gave examples of good writing.

I love Red Vs Blue, have everything up to Freelancer on DVD, but the writing is far from good. Have you forgotten Season 3 already? The jokes and lines are well-written and well delivered, but the plots are awful and always were.

I'm also gonna challenge your Nuzlocke example, as it was never really a comedy. It was light-hearted and fun, but it wasn't meant to actually be a comedy, i.e. it wasn't primarily about the humour. If anything, it was closer to the "adventure" genre.

 

[Ryallen]

Believe it or not, people didn't like that it became less of a comedy and more of a drama. Or at least, the people that I talk to didn't like that. And that only further cements my point that people can't seem to like good writing in comedies.

Project Freelancer had terrible writing. And terrible characters. People do like good writing in comedy, but it would probably help if you actually gave examples of actual good writing.

I love Red Vs Blue, have everything up to Freelancer on DVD, but the writing is far from good. Have you forgotten Season 3 already? The jokes and lines are well-written and well delivered, but the plots are awful and always were.

I'm also gonna challenge your Nuzlocke example, as it was never really a comedy. It was light-hearted and fun, but it wasn't meant to actually be a comedy, i.e. it wasn't primarily about the humour. If anything, it was closer to the "adventure" genre.

Did you actually not think of Nuzlocke as a comedy? Seriously? And I don't remember much of Season 3 of Red vs. Blue, mostly because when I first got into it, I binge watched it. But I don't remember any bad seasons or bad jokes.

 

[ThreeName]

Did you actually not think of Nuzlocke as a comedy? Seriously? And I don't remember much of Season 3 of Red vs. Blue, mostly because when I first got into it, I binge watched it. But I don't remember any bad seasons or bad jokes.

Genre-wise, it's adventure. Given the amount of characters that die, the tragedy of the main characters motivation and the ultimate goal of the narrative, it fits very neatly into the "adventure" genre. Think of Indiana Jones; it still had hilarious moments in it (like the gun vs sword fight) but it had plenty of action and drama as well.

I've been watching RvB since the end of Season 1, and I still thoroughly enjoy it, but the narrative was never that good. Season 3 was where they introduced that ludicrous time-travel business that still taints the series to this day and started trying to focus on plot rather than jokes, and was poorly received for it, before falling back into the groove in Season 4. It wasn't until Freelancer that they thought they could write storylines again, and demonstrated that nothing had changed at all.

And I never said the jokes were bad; the jokes were always good. The plot was where it fell apart. For example, remember the "scared quest"? There was no point to it at all. It was summed up by "Treasure gone. Alien dead. Quest failed". This is not the hallmark of good writing.