Why has no one done anything like Homeworld?

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Sangnz

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Oct 7, 2009
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Seriously the Homeworld series of games by Relic (although they didn't do cataclysm) are still some of the best space based RTS games available to play with true three dimensional unit movement. Yet we have seen no one try to emulate or even better these games since the days of Homeworld 2 in 2003.

Do Devs have a fear of it being to complex to make, that there isn't a market for it?
Sins of a Solar Empire could have been the next Homeworld (although they don't allow full three dimensional movement) but was drastically let down with by having no campaign at all, although it is a brilliant game.
So what gives why did games like Homeworld vanish into memory why has no developer/publisher seen fit to try and fill this gap and stand out from the other terrestrial based RTS games out there?

Caption
systems foresou
 

Gutlord Grom

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Oct 27, 2008
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I wouldn't say it's a fear of complexity; the industry changes and cycles, and some genres have longer times between resurgences in popularity. After all Sins of a Solar Empire came about as a dedicated multiplayer game based around a similar concept that's great, though as you mentioned, a campaign would have been nice.

Isn't Sword of the Stars in the same vein as Homeworld? It may help get your fix.
 

Althus

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Sep 24, 2010
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I was thinking the exact same think yesterday.
Maybe is a genre that makes very few money so, no devs try to make one.
But i would like to have some more games like Homeworld out there.
 

RuralGamer

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Jan 1, 2011
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Simply put; its a niche game and not everyone would like it; would there be sufficient interest to justify spending a lot of money in the eyes of major publishers and developers? I don't think there would be and as has been demonstrated repeatedly in the last few years, big companies only want to make games they know will sell.
 

Althus

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Sep 24, 2010
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And there is this game on way so you might get or fix, I know is a 4x and not pure rts like Homeworld but is better then nothing .

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/trailers/4073-Sword-of-the-Stars-2-Opening-Cinematic
 

bificommander

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Apr 19, 2010
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I suppose the space-battle part of Empire of War was a bit like it, and the campaign had some sort of story. And there was Sword of the Stars, but like SoaSE it has only a sandbox mode.

I don't know why not much else is being made. It wasn't a hot seller, but I think it still has a good fanbase that would buy a new installment. Plus I don't think it's that expensive to make. You don't need a large number of actors doing motion captures, cinematic cutscenes (Homeworld did just fine with blac&white artwork and the ingame engine) you don't have to make huge complicated levels (a skybox lifted from some Hubble telescope images and put through photoshop, some gas clouds and astroids, and you're good to go), no complicated physics engine and even the models are relatively simple (there aren't that many moving parts to the starships except the turrets). Get a few programmers and artists, a cheap engine that does decent particle effects, a male and female voice actor that can hold a monotone, and a good orchestra, and you have the essentials down. It's got to be cheaper to make than a scale-model of New york the player has to run through at a fast, linear pace.

Making a game that sells 1/100th of the games the last CoD sells isn't too bad if you can reduce the budget by the same amount. Plus, if you go for the big market, you have to compete with other big-budget titles that try to get the same customers you're going for. Homeworld 3 would not have a single competitor for its smaller market share. Sounds like a decent investment to me, but what do I know?
 

Zer_

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Feb 7, 2008
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Gutlord Grom said:
I wouldn't say it's a fear of complexity; the industry changes and cycles, and some genres have longer times between resurgences in popularity. After all Sins of a Solar Empire came about as a dedicated multiplayer game based around a similar concept that's great, though as you mentioned, a campaign would have been nice.

Isn't Sword of the Stars in the same vein as Homeworld? It may help get your fix.
Nope. Homeworld is an RTS, Sword of the Stars is not. That's like comparing Starcraft to Civilization. Both games not only play different, but they feel different.


Sangnz said:
Seriously the Homeworld series of games by Relic (although they didn't do cataclysm) are still some of the best space based RTS games available to play with true three dimensional unit movement. Yet we have seen no one try to emulate or even better these games since the days of Homeworld 2 in 2003.

Do Devs have a fear of it being to complex to make, that there isn't a market for it?
Sins of a Solar Empire could have been the next Homeworld (although they don't allow full three dimensional movement) but was drastically let down with by having no campaign at all, although it is a brilliant game.
So what gives why did games like Homeworld vanish into memory why has no developer/publisher seen fit to try and fill this gap and stand out from the other terrestrial based RTS games out there?

Caption
systems foresou
I can give you an answer but you might not like it... Warhammer 40k happened. Ever since Relic has been making Warhammer games (Dawn of War, etc...) they've not touched any other IP except for Company of Heroes. I've grown really weary of Warhammer games, but there's not much I can do about it. This forum is rife with Warhammer fanboys.

I'm in the same boat as you, though. We're long overdue for a Homeworld sequel. With modern graphics it would be absolutely stunning.

Also, to anyone saying it wouldn't sell, you just have to look at the first Homeworld. It came out in a time where 2D RTS' were dominant. StarCraft was still going strong. Homeworld came out and garnered the collective holy shit of the entire PC market. It's not so different today. Fully 3D RTS games are relatively unkown to must. You'd be surprised at how many people haven't played Homeworld.

The Homeworld universe is rife with lore and depth. There's a LOT of potential; not just for RTS games, but other types as well. If Relic were to start making a Homeworld, they would likely pull it off. It's simple, eyegasmic trailers coupled with favorable previews will help expose the game. Great reviews will sustain the sales and re-introduce the brand.

The nature of 3D RTS games is such that they don't require massive budgets to produce. That means that more of the budget could be spent on exposing the game. The only real downfall is the fact that it wouldn't work very well on consoles. It's up to the console makers to make the damn things compatible with a keyboard and mouse (PS3 aside).

PS: To anyone who hasn't touched Homeworld, I suggest you give it a try. The musical score is simply staggeringly good. Everything else about it is just as well made.
 

Apollo45

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Jan 30, 2011
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There are actually a few games out there that have tried something similar. Sins of a Solar Empire comes to mind right off the bat, but I've seen others. Issue is that Relic did things just about perfectly; a story we cared about, a campaign that was - and is - fun, challenging, and unique, balanced gameplay where the races are for most intents and purposes the same, yet are different enough for those who care, and so on and so forth. No other developer has been able to make a game that has the spectacular singleplayer experience that Homeworld did; Sins didn't even include a campaign.

I don't believe it's for a lack of trying that devs haven't made something similar yet, but RTS's as a genre have never been the most popular ever, and a 3D space one is even more niche, so when games like it do come along they tend to be few and far between. Sierra won't be making any more Homeworld games either, since they've gone defunct and whatnot, as sad as that is.

And Captcha, I do not know how to write in Hebrew, sorry.
 

Sangnz

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Oct 7, 2009
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Zer_ said:
[snip]
I can give you an answer but you might not like it... Warhammer 40k happened. Ever since Relic has been making Warhammer games (Dawn of War, etc...) they've not touched any other IP except for Company of Heroes. I've grown really weary of Warhammer games, but there's not much I can do about it. This forum is rife with Warhammer fanboys.

I'm in the same boat as you, though. We're long overdue for a Homeworld sequel. With modern graphics it would be absolutely stunning.
This is true but I can happily compromise this and ask them to do a Battlefleet Gothic game in a similar design to Homeworld which lets them stay in their current cash cow environment :D
 

Ferrious

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Jan 6, 2010
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Based on rumour, there is possibly a Homeworld 3 in development. THQ did buy the rights from Sierra a while after they started working with Relic. It's been a while since I read anything about it though.

I would dearly love for it to be true. I also love Relic's 40k work though, so I'm happy either way.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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How did HW and HW2 sell?

Because if the answer is "poorly", then yeah, that may be why.
 

Zer_

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Zhukov said:
How did HW and HW2 sell?

Because if the answer is "poorly", then yeah, that may be why.
The first Homeworld sold very well. It was deemed an instant classic, and won many Game of the Year awards. The second Homeworld also sold very well. It is, however, not their best selling franchise. That can be explained by the industry growth of the past decade, though.
 

Sangnz

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Zhukov said:
How did HW and HW2 sell?

Because if the answer is "poorly", then yeah, that may be why.
Between its release in Sept 1999 and Sept 2000 Homeworld sold 500,000 copies, which is pretty massive for an rts back then. Especially for a new IP from an unknown developer.
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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Look up Nexus: The Jupiter Incident. It's not exactly like HW, but by midgame you are controling multiple capital ships, it has a decent story, interesting combat, ship customization and a fairly high challenge level.
 

Atmos Duality

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Gutlord Grom said:
I wouldn't say it's a fear of complexity; the industry changes and cycles, and some genres have longer times between resurgences in popularity. After all Sins of a Solar Empire came about as a dedicated multiplayer game based around a similar concept that's great, though as you mentioned, a campaign would have been nice.

Isn't Sword of the Stars in the same vein as Homeworld? It may help get your fix.
Sword of the Stars is more directly akin to the old Master of Orion series of games (anyone who played the first two will see how immediately).
 

Zer_

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Feb 7, 2008
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To put it another way, between Homeworld 1 and Homeworld 2's release, Relic went from ~20 employees up to ~120.
 

thelastmccabe

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I actually just picked up Homeworld off of Amazon. I've been meaning to play it since it came out but I never got around to it for some reason. I won't have time to play it for a few weeks, but I wanted to go ahead and buy it just in case old copies started to get scarce like I see with a lot of older games.