Why I Hate The Direct Hit: A TF2 Discussion.

[Internet Kraken]

-snip-

Actually, Engineers benefit from Soldiers using the Direct Hit. The increased rate of fire has no effect on the Engineers ability to repair sentries. The first rocket may hit faster, but the time it takes for the Soldier to fire each rocket is the same. The Engineer can keep his sentry alive until the Soldier has to reload. And with reduced splash damage, there is less chance of you getting killed by the soldier.

Thinking about it, I hate the Eyelander far more than the Direct Hit.

I always get destroyed by Eyelander wielding Demo's

Eyelander Demos are balanced. Honestly the only things about this update I have a problem with is the Direct Hit and Equalizer.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Thinking about it, I hate the Eyelander far more than the Direct Hit.

I always get destroyed by Eyelander wielding Demo's

I don't find the eyelander/shield combo to be too bad. An airblast can still push the demoman, even when he's charging. As a pyro I normally just set them on fire then keep pushing them back when they get close. I'm fine with the demoman updates, they're OK.

-snip-

Actually, Engineers benefit from Soldiers using the Direct Hit. The increased rate of fire has no effect on the Engineers ability to repair sentries. The first rocket may hit faster, but the time it takes for the Soldier to fire each rocket is the same. The Engineer can keep his sentry alive until the Soldier has to reload. And with reduced splash damage, there is less chance of you getting killed by the soldier.

I guess I must've garnered that impression from the sheer volume of rockets. My bad.

On an entirely unrelated note: I'm getting immense Deja vu from this thread. Not in a searchbar guy kinda way, but like this genuinely happened exactly like this a few days ago. Same people, comments, and everything. Weird... o.o

 

[Toasty Virus]

Thinking about it, I hate the Eyelander far more than the Direct Hit.

I always get destroyed by Eyelander wielding Demo's

I don't find the eyelander/shield combo to be too bad. An airblast can still push the demoman, even when he's charging. As a pyro I normally just set them on fire then keep pushing them back when they get close.

I never actually considered countering it with a Pyro.......

Thanks!

 

[scotth266]

Oh, I really think there's a problem with it. Heavies can't dodge it, scouts are always in the air anyway, engineers can't repair fast enough (Thanks to the increased rate of fire). Not even the pyro can reliably airblast it as it fires faster than the pyro can blast.

I only mentioned Heavies and Scouts because they're easy to diagnose in terms of damage: as far as the weapon's effect on Engies goes, I can't really tell thanks to the enormous amount of explosive spam flying through the servers at the moment.

I haven't found the Targe/Eyelander/Equalizer to be that broken, honestly. The only part of the update I draw an issue with is the Direct Hit.

Both weapons allow a good Soldier/Demo to chokehold a specific point by reaching high areas. The Eyelander/Targe/Pipe allows someone to run up spamming, charge in and then reap without any other class being able to stop the Demo getting into close combat. While he's still got bombs going off in melee.

Rocketirect/Equaliser allows a RJ, land in melee and crit; or the suicide take down of RJ, Equalise/Taunt.

Both are outshadowing the Scout, not allowing the Spy/Medic to follow, screwing the Engie over from anything other than corner defence and forcing most classes to defend against the updates.

Even the Pyro is only useful for Demo/Solly countering atm.

The Equalizer serves as little more than a last-ditch style weapon: you have to be near death for it to be truly effective, so it's a nice tradeoff in my eyes. Granted, it might need a minor debuff in terms of when the effects start to really kick in... or they could just make it so that you can't heal someone with it equipped, period.

The Targe is mostly balanced: to use it, you have to give up the sticky launcher, and while it does let Demos close distances quickly, they sacrifice a lot of control for it. Perhaps adding an "overheated" state for the initial cooloff period (like BONK!) could solve the problem of Demos abusing it to marathon run?

As far as the Eyelander goes, unless you're cornered, in my experience it's easily handled, same with all melee weapons. I dunno, it hasn't been much of a problem for me other than the range (but I get hit with magically extending Kukris all the time, so I can't say much on that.)

Quit yer bitchin'. It's fine.

Also, Heavies were NEVER feared. They could be countered into next week by sentries, Spies, Snipers, Demomen, they were nothing but walking target practice dummies from the start. Even more so with the Sandman and the Direct Hit, now.

As far as the Sniper goes, yes, they were the Heavy's main enemy from the start. Spies had bigger limitations on cloaking though, and weren't as much of a threat as they are today. Sentries did and can still lose battles with Heavies depending on the situation: they were by no means a counter.

It's only recently that the Heavy has gotten such rough treatment. With the buffs and new tools the Spy recieved, he became another one of the Heavy's worst enemies: the Scout shortly followed suit with the Sandman, though after that got nerfed the balance between thinnies and fatties was restored. Now the Soldier is the next class lording over the Heavy.

 

[Danny Ocean]

something like a gyroget weapon would be cool, gyrojet projectiles are self powered but aren't ejected from the weapon by a separate charge, they start off very slow and accelerate over distance. that way his new weapon would have low damage close to the target and the damage would ramp up at longer distances.

That'd be quite a good idea. As a scout I need to get in close, so he does the soldier trick of killing me whilst damaging himself. The problem is that the splash damage is reduced, so he comes off better than he normally would, whilst doing more damage.

i haven't had a chance to field test the new update, i'm stranded on netbook detail for a few weeks. the only problem i can see is that if the soldier didn't have a weapon with any close up punch he'd stop being a line troop and get relegated to a sniper jr. role. and as a sniper i can guarantee i don't want more competition! high damage, high speed and non charging projectiles being pinged at me from long range almost sounds like it'd make the sniper class obsolete on the more compact maps.

He's always had his shotgun and melee weapon. I guess I'm just saying that the Direct Hit gives an advantage over the regular launcher at short range when it's was dubbed to be useful to sharpshooters. At close range the smaller splash radius makes less difference, too.

 

[AceDiamond]

It's only recently that the Heavy has gotten such rough treatment. With the buffs and new tools the Spy recieved, he became another one of the Heavy's worst enemies: the Scout shortly followed suit with the Sandman, though after that got nerfed the balance between thinnies and fatties was restored. Now the Soldier is the next class lording over the Heavy.

They also nerfed the crap out of the Scout to the point where the Sandman is a joke of a weapon. Reduces your health and now the stun ball doesn't even really stun (enemies can still move they just can't fire, good thing I don't usually use the Sandman I guess). Total bull. And all caused by people who in the first week of an update start whinging inside out about how the balance is broken horribly rather than wait for the classes to become a bit more evened-out once everyone's done playing with the new toys. Meanwhile the Pyro still remains broken and cheap and nobody wants to complain about that because the W+1 Pyros are too useful.

Personally I see no real balance break so far (Pyros notwithstanding), then again I haven't played my main class (Scout) as much recently, perhaps I will test and see how well I do.

 

[Beastialman]

Note, I've only played TF2 on 360.

Why anyone would play an FPS on a console is beyond me.

I've heard discussion that the heavy needs another update. It's definitely out of date in the game these days. There's really no reason to play one since you either get gunned down really fast or one-shot killed by a fully charged sniper.

I play it on a 360 along with other FPS (does Oblivion count? I mean bow's and arrow's...). Either way I just simply don't have the money for a decent gaming computer.

 

[DarkRyter]

Valve will fix it. They fix everything. I used to have a terminal disease. Then I played HL2. Now, I don't care about dying. I'm just waitin for ep 3.

 

[scotth266]

They also nerfed the crap out of the scout to the point where the Sandman is a joke of a weapon. Reduces your health and now the stun ball doesn't even really stun (enemies can still move they just can't fire). Total bull. And all caused by people who in the first week of an update start whinging inside out about how the balance is broken horribly rather than wait for the classes to become a bit more evened-out once everyone's done playing with the new toys.

My main issue was that it could stun Ubers. That pissed me off to no end.

Once they removed that, I was... okay with the Sandman. I don't think it needed the DRASTIC health reduction nerf that it received, though it certainly cut down on the spamitude of baseballs flying though the air. The whole "moving while stunned" bit is silly though. There's just no need for it.

 

[BonsaiK]

most of the time it will be hitting the Scout in the air, since Scouts love to hop about like a madman when trying to dodge explosives.

Anything that stops bunny-hopping scouts is brilliant. Scouts might then start dodging using skill instead of spamming the jump button 24/7. Regarding combat ineffectiveness, the scout is barely a combat class anyway. If you're playing a scout and shooting stuff, you're doing it wrong.

the Heavy is going to lose unless he's already spun up his gun

Heavies keep your guns sped up at all times in combat (like smart heavies do anyway) and no problem.

 

[Scumpernickle]

Even Valve isn't perfect, but they've always fixed the weapons after an update if they are a little OP.

 

[Hazy]

I feel rather indifferent towards the Direct Hit.
As a Pyro, I'm normally coming from the backside* and gone within 3 seconds. So unless they are very fast, I normally do not feel the wrath of their attack.

But from the description you have provided, it does sound rather irritating - not to mention cheap.

Luckily, Valve does a pretty good job of listening to their communities, so there is a chance that another patch will modify the weapon.
And maybe it's just because everyone is frantically trying to get the new weapons, so it seems like more of an issue than it really is.

Either way, don't sweat it. The problem will probably fix itself.
[sub]*So help me God, I can already forsee the jokes.[/sub]

 

[Hazy]

[I can't really add anything else because I haven't played the game...

Fix that.

Now.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/

 

[Deathman101]

My only problem with the Direct Hit is that it can be used so effectively at close range in addition to long range. Valve said the weapon was intended for sharpshooting, yet Soldiers can easily kill people with it up close, where it much harder to dodge. I think the damage should be scaled based on how far the rocket has traveled.


At least that's my experience with it. To be honest I haven't encountered to many Soldiers using it.

I agree completely, being a scout in Arena is horrid now because of that. Its hard enough dodging the fucking things at long range

IIRC: Critting projectiles go at double speed, so, it goes at almost 400% of normal rocket speed.

 

[Rahnzan]

On another forum I visit frequently there is a powerful rule instated to the point where most believe it's ever-presence is due to being one of the sacred unwritten rules of the forum, when in fact it is written, in several places at that. Basically what it states is do not respond to an unproductive post. The famous line "Don't feed the troll" comes to mind - because trolls eat children, and for the most part, people like children, so please, don't feed children to the trolls.

I'm not sure if The Escapist has a similar rule, though it probably does, and if not, it should, but regardless we should observe this action without having to be told. The internet as a whole is a community in and of itself without being marginalized and compartmentalized by special interests like The Escapist (gaming!).

...

Don't feed the god damn troll. There's a report button for a reason.

[-----]

I dont mind the Direct Hit so much. It looks cool, it works effectively, and when the update frenzy (on top of the frenzy instilled by the private war) dies down the impact wont be so...direct. I play a Scout exclusively and the disadvantages inherent in going toe-to-toe with a soldier were evident enough before any updates. 200 health beasty with a powerful rocket that takes out the majority of my health by landing somewhere in my general vicinity - noooo thank you. I'm going to beat feet the f*** out of there.

At least the bloody thing looks like it belongs in TF2. The Sniper's bow and shield are fine, they're a bit primitive but they go with his character. By no stretch of the imagination though is the demoman a bloody highlander. What's more, when running around in the blitz of things it seems to me out of the corner of my eye the claymore looks more like a chainsaw (just at a glance) which pulls even further away from his image as the crackpot drunken explosives expert.

It's roll even crosses lines, whereas the Direct hit is still pretty much a rocket that does rocket things, the shield gives the demoman a speed boost that blows Scouts out of the water - this is wrong. All the scout HAS is speed. You're telling me one of the most offensive units in the game can outpace me? Shit man! Pyros were bad enough but at least I could run. One little nick from that flame (which I swear to god has an underpronounced visual range) and I can kiss my skin goodbye. Why couldn't they give the demoman a weapon more appropriate to his class, like a cluster bomb launcher that fires grenades in threes but needs reloading after each shot. Let's give him a sword! I know rediculous seems to be a selling point for TF2 but this is too much.

 

[Platypus Tamer]

My only problem with the Direct Hit is that it can be used so effectively at close range in addition to long range. Valve said the weapon was intended for sharpshooting, yet Soldiers can easily kill people with it up close, where it much harder to dodge. I think the damage should be scaled based on how far the rocket has traveled.


At least that's my experience with it. To be honest I haven't encountered to many Soldiers using it.

I agree completely, being a scout in Arena is horrid now because of that. Its hard enough dodging the fucking things at long range

IIRC: Critting projectiles go at double speed, so, it goes at almost 400% of normal rocket speed.

Where did you obtain that information? Crit projectiles do not move any faster than regular projectiles, i can assure you.

 

[edthehyena]

wait for the solly/demo spam to die down, then we'll see if it's balanced or not; it's hardly ideal conditions to make a judgement at the moment.

Agreed. The OP even said that there's so many soldiers around with the DH spamming shots that the the chances are good you'll get hit. This will die down soon.

Also, valve doesn't beta test. I'm sure they have SOMEONE play with updates before they go live, but not the general community. In time they'll release an update that messes with anything that's been proven OP.

Also, yes the weapon does extra damage up close. But it was designed not be a weapon FOR long-range, but to ALLOW long-range. The standard weapon useless at long distances that the DH works at. If you're having trouble getting a soldier up-close, maybe re-think your method.