Why I love Nintendo

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Seriously, what the fuck?


Two players somehow get Mario to run half the level on bubbles without touching the ground, then Luigi swaps in and carries on the run without either of them missing a beat? That's absolutely nuts. The level design in this game is just incredible to allow for this sort of experimentation.

And this is why Nintendo eats their competitors for breakfast in terms of quality. Seriously, good level design is RARE, mostly because there are no tricks or shortcuts for it. Good level design is HARD which is why we such a lack of it in games nowadays due to money being eaten up by presentation.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I know right? There's another video which absolutely floored me, and that made use of the Gamepad's ability to add platforms as a fifth player. Honestly, I didn't see the appeal in being able to add extra platforms before, but after watching this:


...holy goddamn! Just look at how the game lets you use extra platforms to completely play around with the level. The players in the video aren't even close to following the regular layout of the level, but because the person holding the Gamepad has got such godly reflexes, they're all able to jump around like a... I mean, just try and keep up with everything that's going on there. It's insane.

I'm a huge fan of other 2D platformers like Origins, but watching these videos has made me realise how restricted they are by comparison. In Origins, there is a right way to make it across a level, and that's pretty much it. If you fuck up, you die. Still huge amounts of fun, but watching these videos has made me appreciate just how open the Mario games are by comparison. The only other 2D platformer I can think of that is similar in that respect is the old-school Sonic games, but they never had the same focus on multiplayer that the NSMB series does.

It's not even just Mario that does this as Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, and even Luigi's Mansion levels are clearly meticulously designed right down to the finest detail. It's why I had to scoff at the idea of the next Zelda being open-ended becuase it would come at the cost of the pacing, challenge curve, and balance thus nullifying it being a ZELDA GAME. Too many games try to play smoke and mirrors with level architecture in order to make them APPEAR more complex and interesting than they really are as most of them just have the bare basics of differentiation. Heck, when playing in the sections of Bioshock Infinite where you have access to the Skyline (which are too few) I suddenly realized how generic and boring most FPS level design is. And the reason that happens is because good level design takes time, effort, and TALENT to do well and if devs were to try and do that, at least 50% of the developers in existence would be exposed for mediocre frauds.

 

[acillies45]

I used to be a Nintendo fanboy. I defended it to the end about why I thought it was the best system. I talked about how they were able to make fun games that didn't rely on good graphics because they had innovated well made games beyond the graphics. But Nintendo didn't let that last.

Now before I go further, yes, there are some good games on the Wii (and from I've heard on the WiiU).

The problem arises when you realize there are not as many as on other consoles (or PC, which now I play more than any other platform).

Here's my problem with Nintendo: They try to innovate a system, but not their games. In the case of the Wii, they had a good idea: motion controls. It was rather new and it looked like it could work well. But they didn't do anything amazing with it. They did some things, but really it was more gimmicky than anything. And then the other two systems come out with motion controls and they do them better! Why better? Because they didn't base their entire system around one thing that they know not everyone wants to use. Sure, I think playing Dance Central on Xbox is great (both as a game, and as a work out) but I like to be able to pick up a controller and play Halo without having to move around much. Nintendo even made us buy something else to make the motion sensor more usable! That was it for me.

Beyond that though, the innovation in their games went out the window. While I like the older Zelda and Pokemon as much as anyone, the formula for the games is still the exact same as it ever has been. Sure, they've changed things in the game, but they haven't taken any big leaps of faith on trying new systems in the games that haven't been proven to work before. That's why I had liked Nintendo so much. They were able to come out with something new every time they released a game it seemed. Eventually though, their innovation abilities grew stagnant and honestly, I haven't seen one new game that I'm really interested it. Yes the WiiU put a screen on their controller, but so what? I didn't want a new gimmick for the new Nintendo system. I wanted good games...because that's what a system should have. For every 1 good game Nintendo has come out it in the past few years, Xbox has made 20. It almost seems as if they're afraid to take any leap of faith, because it's not as fiscally safe. Which is fine, but I got fed up with it.

I was a Nintendo fan. I wanted to stay that way. I TRIED to stay that way. But I know when I'm in a bad relationship, and Nintendo just wanted my money, so I had to say goodbye.

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

They did some things, but really it was more gimmicky than anything. And then the other two systems come out with motion controls and they do them better! Why better? Because they didn't base their entire system around one thing that they know not everyone wants to use. Sure, I think playing Dance Central on Xbox is great (both as a game, and as a work out) but I like to be able to pick up a controller and play Halo without having to move around much.

Beyond that though, the innovation in their games went out the window. While I like the older Zelda and Pokemon as much as anyone, the formula for the games is still the exact same as it ever has been.

I was a Nintendo fan. I wanted to stay that way. I TRIED to stay that way. But I know when I'm in a bad relationship, and Nintendo just wanted my money, so I had to say goodbye.

I feel like half this thread consists of people like Jeff who just loves Nintendo and people like you and me who wanted to keep liking them but they don't offer things we wanted. The DS had the same problem you mentioned. They put a touch screen on it and what happened? Games would come out that only used the fucking touch sceen. When I was kid I thought "cool, they can use this for things like hotkeys or interesting things." There was a great Starfox game that came out for it but whole damn thing was controlled with the stylus, d-pad, and left trigger. They could have easily made an option use the buttons but Nintendo doesn't like being conventional. The Vita on the other hand has to be my favorite console right now. They're actually using the touch screen in ways I thought of as kid to improve gameplay and it always feels optional.

 

[Bleidd Whitefalcon]

And this is why Nintendo eats their competitors for breakfast in terms of quality. Seriously, good level design is RARE, mostly because there are no tricks for it. Good level design is HARD which is why we such a lack of it in games nowadays due to money being eaten up by presentation.

I know right? There's another video which absolutely floored me, and that made use of the Gamepad's ability to add platforms as a fifth player. Honestly, I didn't see the appeal in being able to add extra platforms before, but after watching this:


...holy goddamn! Just look at how the game lets you use extra platforms to completely play around with the level. The players in the video aren't even close to following the regular layout of the level, but because the person holding the Gamepad has got such godly reflexes, they're all able to jump around like a... I mean, just try and keep up with everything that's going on there. It's insane.

I'm a huge fan of other 2D platformers like Origins, but watching these videos has made me realise how restricted they are by comparison. In Origins, there is a right way to make it across a level, and that's pretty much it. If you fuck up, you die. Still huge amounts of fun, but watching these videos has made me appreciate just how open the Mario games are by comparison. The only other 2D platformer I can think of that is similar in that respect is the old-school Sonic games, but they never had the same focus on multiplayer that the NSMB series does.

That is fucking IMPRESSIVE. I was planning on picking up a Wii U anyway but not a huge Mario fan. This - this just convinced me to buy NSMBU. Thank you for linking all those videos, J-e-f-f-e-r-s

 

[Towowo]

Just because it's the standard does mean it can't be improved. I'd be disappointed in the future if all gamepads were the same as they are now.

 

[Sean951]

Well, it was also the standard to just use a d-pad for years. Controller design can always be moved forward.

 

[thiosk]

Metroid link metroid link metroid link.

Metroid!
Link.
Link? Metroid?
METROLINK

This sums up my feelings on nintendo.

 

[Snotnarok]

Aren't as scummy...hm
So having digital games being locked to your console and not your account isn't a crappy way of doing it? As in you buy a WiiU, it breaks ,you return it to the store now your digital games are lost, sorry too bad? And if you want the game on your 3DS you have to buy it again for that device.

Playstation Network:
Buy Final Fantasy VII, you can play it on your PS3, your PSV or your vita, you buy it once and you can play it on any of them and have it installed on all of them.


WiiU less costly than a PS3 at launch? The WiiU has comparable specs to the PS3 is 6 years old, that's not a point in its favor when you bring up launch costs.

 

[Proeliator]

Nintendo just stopped making games that I liked to play. It was probably the console, I have had lots of fun on the gamecube, and we still get out the 64 and have a good time. We never bought a wii, there was never incentive. (Until maybe skyward sword, but its a little late now)

We've had the Xbox 360 for (holy crap!) 6 years now, and its still fun to pop in a few games and play em. Plus there's the computer, always fun to pull up an RTS or FPS on that.

If Nintendo made games that I thought would be fun to play, I'd get them. But I don't want to go out of my way to have fun with a difficult to use controller when the competition, (and even the past) comes so much more naturally.

 

[Eddie the head]

They do there thing and whatever it doesn't effect me.

This part kinda interests me. Do you game? If yes, Nintendo has probably had an affect on you in some way.

But never the less, your choice.

A fly landing on someones foot in china has and effect on my life in some small way. I mean in a meaningful A leads to B leads to C kind of way.

 

[TheLycanKing144]

I'm just afraid that the WiiU goes the way of the Wii in terms of power relative to the other competitors this generation. I'm also worried about 3rd party games. Having weaker hardware isn't going to help with the low amount of 3rd party games.

I won't agrue with you, because everyone has their own opinion, and opinions need to be respected.

This^^

I don't think Nintendo fans are going "extinct" however, just because the Wii-U isn't selling hot doesn't mean Nintendo has no fanbase. There could be other reasons as to why, which IMO it's due to the reasons above.

People do not want to buy a system that is only current gen in power, why buy a system that gives you the same experience as the one's you are getting already? And seeing the PS4 and 720 coming out soon the Wii-U just doesn't hold water.

 

[Eddie the head]

snip

So? 30 years ago they did something that people copied. Big deal, it's not what I am talking about. I'll say again in a meaningful A leads to B kind of way. A is not the start of events and B has more then one cause then just A, but those are not the things I am talking about. The games and business choices they are making on the Wii-U don't affect me in a meaningful way. Everything is interconnected but lets not get into that.

Final note I am not with you, but I'm not against you. Don't try and turn me into your enemy. I just don't care.