Why illegalizing guns will not work in the U.S

[Jubbert]

If I get attacked or my home gets invaded, I want a firearm to defend myself with. If someone directly threats my life or the life of another, then I want a way to stop that person from harming others. I wish that the principle or another teacher at that elementary school had an accessible firearm, he or she could have killed or badly wounded the shooter and saved lives.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Ban everything except hunting rifles with no more than 5 rounds per clip and handguns.

Problem solved, any moron who disagrees to that is either too stupid or selfish to own a gun

Yes because Americans would never illegally modify a gun.

Then set a maximum clip size for handguns too, aswell as full-auto modifications.

The whole point is that that video shows an illegal mod already. You can't have that drum mod in almost any state north of the Mason-Dixon line but he or someone he knew did it anyway. Illegal mods to guns are decades old, some whackos melt down quarters to make steel bullets that go through armor, laws are only as good as there enforcement and cops are getting there budgets slashed everywhere. If you want to stop gun violence banning guns don't work but making gun use like smoking may. What I mean is that you use culture to help solve the problem. Decades ago everyone smokes and now almost no one does and those that do are almost pariahs and the revenues from taxing cigarettes helps pay for the negative ads attacking smoking. Do that and you help get rid of guns not through law but through cultural shifts to something else like ninja stars. Yeah make ninja stars the new guns.

That's... a really good idea! I never thought of that before!

A couple of holes though. There are no positive arguments for smoking though, but for guns people say they're "cool and it's my right etc, etc," those arguments are all dumb as holy fuck, but there are still people stupid enough that make them. And then there are of course those who profit off of weapons and such.

Not to mention the republican political party (I'm talking about the pollies not the people) that'll have a massive cry over it.

 

[Not Matt]

guns are built to kill. No need for another argument, "I have the right to owns gun" doesn't mean ANYTHING compared to the well-being of peoples lives.

Right now the biggest killer in Americas is overdose from pharmaceuticals [http://lifeabundantly-alim.blogspot.com/2012/06/fda-admits-100000-prescription-drug.html]. America has put profit over the peoples' well being for centuries, slavery anyone, and as we speak Big Pharma [http://thephoenix.com/Boston/news/145950-prescription-opioids-have-wreaked-havoc-on-the-bay/] trying to make us all addicts and killing 100,000 a year to do it, and Matt they want the children.

yes. but that doesn't change that fact that guns are built to kill and medicine is made to heal.

And now that i have gotten that obvious fact out in the open let's get on the same side and talk about this the nr 1 killer. I have stopped trusting the medicine industry. or at least the parts that aren't basic. after they came up with seasonal affective disorder[footnote]feeling of depression that start at the end October and last til about February/marsh....That's called winter! and there is a pill for winter now. and it gives you Chest pains, Dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, Cold, tingling, or numbness in the hands or feet, asthma, heart failure, Confusion, irregular heartbeat, Signs of an allergic reaction, including unexplained rash, hives, itching, unexplained swelling, wheezing, or difficulty breathing or swallowing,anal leakage and depression(it counteracts itself) and death. All because you could't put on a happy face for Christmas[/footnote]they have completely spiraled out of control, making up new (completely bogus) diseases for which we have more and more dangerous medications. If anyone had bothered to read the bottles the world would have been operating on chicken soup for the rest of eternity. when you think of it. this is technically a form of suicide

and guns may not be the biggest killer but giving them to people isn't a particularly good idea. why do people actually need guns?

(i am done ranting now, sorry if i come of as a bit of a grump)

 

[Arfonious]

This thread, like every other of its kind, prooves that gun owning is woven too deep into the American culture for people to even consider taking an opposite view of the problem.

 

[the clockmaker]

Okay, some points,
1- It is not just the UK that has banned guns, Australia,(which is roughly the same size as the US by the way) banned its guns years ago, and while the US has more people, it also has a fuckton more police, so, you know per capita versus total and all that. Germany also has much more restrictive laws without flat out banning them, so there is another option. New zealand's laws are focused on the owner rather than the object which is a further option.

2- Criminals do not obey laws, this is true and a fact that is beloved by people who drop smug macros into discussions. However, if we stop and consider the actual ramifications of this, it becomes pretty goddamn irrelevant.
- If someone has an illegal firearm, that is a crime and they can be stopped there and then as opposed to simply letting them walk on.
- It will slow down or limit the permeation of these weapons (not eliminate, no one is claiming that it will eliminate them)
- Someone who fits the profile of a spree killer (isolated, angry, feels like they have been wronged) suddenly aquiring a weapon becomes a bigger red flag and they are more likely to be stopped.
- From what I can see, it is rarely career criminals that conduct these crimes and so average joe blog on the street is unlikely to know where to get a hold of illegal assault weaponry.
- Someone who is in need of mental help, and is likely to commit violent suicide by attacking those near themselves, is less likely to have a weapon to hand when they snap.
- Criminals, are, for the most part, profit motivated human beings. Someone who is already hiding from the law is not going to assist someone who will draw attention to themselves
- Criminals are often quite reasonable and are unlikely to support the person who is likely to gun down more than a dozen children.
- Not all people who commit these crimes use their own weapons, so if their friends and family do not own them, it is harder for the criminal to obtain it.

3- There is no need to immediately ban all guns, that is impractical, what needs to happen is a staged drawdown of firearm ownership, starting with making them illegal to sell, running buybacks and making it clear that, for example, your assault rifle will be illegal in five years time, but you have five years to obtain a weapon more suitable for hunting and will be provided proper training in the storage and security of your remaining weapons.

I like how people studiously ignored this because acknowledging it would mean they'd have to stop saying "herp derp, UK is smaller than M'erika" and other such bullshit.

Good post with good points. But good luck trying to get people to admit that.

Eh, I'm sure that one day one person will step up and point out why my post is wrong in a logical manner, but until then, I use this place as a proving ground for my points, if no one slaps them down, then they tend to be pretty firm.

Capatcha- good for nothing... fuck you capatcha, what are you good for, HUH?!

 

[Insanity72]

I don't mind if people want to own handguns for protection and Rifles/shotguns for shooting ranges or hunting. But I don't think there is any good reason for someone to own any kind of automatic weapon.

 

[Olas]

-wonka-

Again, I'm going to slap this one on here.

You don't win an argument with a quickmeme generator, and if "But criminals will always break laws because they're criminals!" is all you have to say for your case, maybe you should stand aside and let people who actually make good points speak for that case, as you're doing it a disservice.

It happened in China only about a week ago. 20 kids stabbed.

and zero died.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

making guns completely illegal is not an option anymore.

If this is true, then mass shootings will keep happening.

The US has made their bed. Now they have to lie in it.

The problem is that dangerous psychopaths and criminals don't give a shit about laws, if guns were banned then your average Joe won't have a gun, but your crims and your crazies will find a way, street gangs don't just send someone to a gun store to buy a pistol, they purchase them through various illegal distributors or they just steal them, and even if guns just disappear people will kill each other with other things, the school attack with the most casualties was perpetrated with a car bomb, and, while I wouldn't recommend it, you can go to Google and find a billion bomb recipes you can make from over the counter products.

The fact of the matter is people kill people, and for some reason it happens in America far more often than in other developed countries, guns simply facilitate murder, if there isn't a gun then the murderer will use a knife, a rock, a pointy stick, their is probably a very real and terrible social issue in America that leads to so many people acing violently, my best guess would probably be the fact that crazy people cannot find treatment, as well as societal gaps that lead to your poor neighborhood street gangs, we need to figure out to treat these problems, not the symptom of people shooting people.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

It's too late to fix it by simply taking the guns away; there's simply too many guns in the states. Although, if it were feasible to just magically erase all civilian and illegal guns (leaving only the police and military) I'd say "yes! do it for Christ's sake!".

But unfortunately that's not possible, and America is just left with one very large, virtually unsolvable gun crime problem.

The problem is actually quite solvable, but apparently in the U.S. treating the mentally ill for free and providing every child with a good education so they don't end up in street gangs is simply not worth the hundreds or thousands of love lost to gun violence every year.

The problem has never been guns, but a complete buttfucking of priorities.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Then enjoy seeing innocent people die every few weeks because that's the trade off.

 

[PZF]

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

Yeah, sorry if I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the government taking away my guns.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone literally say 'ban all guns', seeing as that's pretty much impossible.

But there's no reason not to stop public access to automatic weapons. You want a gun for home security or to feel save in your neighborhood? Your standard revolver is more than enough to fill that task. You don't need AK-47's, M-16's, or even a 9mm.

Military grade fire arms should be kept out of the public's hands.

But then it's already too late. This whole gun problem in America is just one big fucking vicious circle; "Oh my God, another shooting spree... We should get more guns to protect our selves!"

 

[Faraja]

I'll have to repeat myself from your other topic, because my point still stands.

Ban all guns! Ignore the fact that there are literally millions, if not billions, of guns in the U.S., a good deal of which are in the hands of private owners! The U.K. did it! Never mind the fact that the U.K. has about a quarter of the population and 2 percent of the area. If one country can do it, every country can!

No.

Let's just get rid of the whole second ammendment, which gives the people the right to form an armed militia for defense of the state, a an act which was viewed as necessary for the defense of the state, and the right of the people to take an armed stand against the government.

Oh, and let's make it so that the people who already have guns illegally have an even bigger upper hand! Yeah!

Didn't think that one through did you?

 

[Hoplon]

I'll have to repeat myself from your other topic, because my point still stands.

Ban all guns! Ignore the fact that there are literally millions, if not billions, of guns in the U.S., a good deal of which are in the hands of private owners! The U.K. did it! Never mind the fact that the U.K. has about a quarter of the population and 2 percent of the area. If one country can do it, every country can!

Also the UK didn't do it. After the 1988 Hungerford massacre it was semi automatic rifles that where outlawed, after the 1996 Dunblane attack it was short barrelled and semi automatic handguns. Shotguns, low calibre rifles manual rifles and long barrelled pistols all still are legal, if very very difficult to obtain.

Though I do understand that you are being sarcastic.

Baby steps, ban the obviously only for killing people weapons like assault rifles and auto loading shot guns first.

 

[Faraja]

It's too late to fix it by simply taking the guns away; there's simply too many guns in the states. Although, if it were feasible to just magically erase all civilian and illegal guns (leaving only the police and military) I'd say "yes! do it for Christ's sake!".

But unfortunately that's not possible, and America is just left with one very large, virtually unsolvable gun crime problem.

The problem is actually quite solvable, but apparently in the U.S. treating the mentally ill for free and providing every child with a good education so they don't end up in street gangs is simply not worth the hundreds or thousands of love lost to gun violence every year.

The problem has never been guns, but a complete buttfucking of priorities.

Never watched Gangland, associated with people who are/were/know people in a gang, or been to an inner city school, have you?

Most of the people in there aren't there because they lack educational opportunities, I went to the same school as people in gangs. Some of the people in my own program were in gangs. They're in street gangs because they want to be. Because the opportunities in the gang are seductive. They're in gangs because gangs say they stick together.

You can work your ass off to try and get a good education and hope to get a good job, to maybe make a lot of money. Or you can sell drugs, and make ten grand in a day (know, I don't know if you can actually make that much in a day or not).

If you're a ten year who grew in an area saturated with gangs, and see these gang bangers with all these nice things, which are you going to choose? To top it all off, once you're in, it's very hard to get out with out getting killed.

 

[Hoplon]

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

Yeah, sorry if I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the government taking away my guns.

Sorry since when did the US become a Stalinist dictatorship?

 

[AldUK]

Any that don't have their's taken away by force, preferably by the Military. What are they going to do? Shoot the soldiers at their door who are armed to the teeth?

Well considering that I personally own several AR15s with FMJ ammo, as well as an assault shotgun, it wouldnt be very feasable to 'take' my firearms without it being a pyrrhic victory for whoever came to take them.

My God... the paranoia of you Americans is unbelievable. "Iff'n tha gunmernt takes mah shooty-sticks den dey gunna kill us all uh-huh-yup!"

Grow up.

"I dont like your facts, so you need to grow up!"

Classic

First of all, why the hell is the first thing you think of "IF" gun law is enforced is to shoot the officials that come to collect? Do you not see how some people may see that as a little over the top?

And secondly in regards to my post, it was intentionally degrading for the reason that the post I quoted was ridiculous, comparing yourselves to tragic government oppression over the past century is absurd, you are a democratic 1st world country, yet you seemingly have the mentality of an under-siege dictatorship.