Why is everybody looking for Luke?(*spoilers*)

[iseko]

The bad guys maybe want to find him and kill him because he's a Jedi and they're Sith and killing Jedi is what Sith do.

They are not sith. I don't care that they threw out the EU. They are not sith. Dark jedi at best.

Luke is the only light side force user in existence (as far as we know). Someone who helped defeat the emperor. Basically the only threat to dark jedi. And you want to know why they want to kill him? And the rebels are fighting dark side force users. You need light side force users to balance that out.

If he were ever to choose to com out of hiding and train new light side force users (as he is prob going to do now) it could be a real threat for the new order.

And again... NOT SITH

 

[DefunctTheory]

1) Luke can train more Jedi
The reason Luke went into exile in the first place is that his initial attempt at starting his own Jedi academy was such a wash that he threw his hands up and went to live on a mountain. Expecting him to just start another Jedi school after that seems fanciful. Also, Jedi don't need teachers anymore according to the movie, since Rey doesn't have any problems teaching herself advanced Jedi abilities on the fly.

Considering everyone seems to have gotten the impression Luke was looking for a Jedi Temple when he left, its not unreasonable for people to assume rebuilding the Jedi Order was one of his goals. And you seem stuck up on this 'Living on a mountain' thing. No one knew that's what he was doing.

2) Luke is a threat to the first order
Again, Luke is on a mountain. If he cared at all about the damage his fallen pupil is wreaking he probably wouldn't have waited 20-30 years before getting off his butt to do something about it. Even if Luke did oppose them, he's still just one man. The common argument against Rey being completely OP in the final confrontation with Ren was that he was shot with a bowcaster bolt, so obviously Jedi aren't immune to conventional weaponry. The Empire First Order could just give a hundred of their men bowcasters and tell them to go wild. Although, these are stormtroopers... Better make it a thousand, chances are somebody will land a hit.

Let's put it this way: Lets say a North Korean terrorist cell came to the US to fulfill dumb peoples expectations. Lets say they built a nuke on US soil, and detonated in at Fort Drum. Whole place is gone. Terrible. And lets say they built another nuke, but the US government stopped them before they could do more. But they never found the nuke.

Do you think they would ever stop looking for that nuke? Or would they just shrug and say 'Screw it, it's probably just sitting on a mountain doing nothing.'

3) Luke is a symbol to the resistance
We never really saw that the resistance was really hurting for recruits or anything, it was never shown that there was any lack of morale amongst the forces. Even without Luke the resistance didn't have any problem pulling together to blow up the Death Planet in a sub-plot. So I don't see why there is any need for Luke as a symbol. In fact, I would say that the resistance already has a symbol: Poe. He's a charismatic, and ludicrously skilled pilot, who has now lead the assault that blew up the planet that blew up 5 planets. He's as big a hero as Luke ever was and he didn't even need magic powers to do it.

The Resistance has been reduced, from what we've seen, to New Hope levels of troops. They have star fighters. That's it. Their bleeding.

As for Poe, he is charismatic, but until the end of Episode 7, he hasn't done anything rally worthy. And he's still not the master of a cosmic force that is the subject of religious devotion.

4) Gotta kill the last Jedi
Someone pointed out that the bad guys haven't been called Sith, so if it's true that they aren't Sith I don't see why they should be interested in exterminating Jedi just for the heck of it. I mean, if there's a Jedi just sitting on a rock, the last thing you want to do is try and kill him, getting him angry so he'll come and thwart your ambiguous plans. Also, Jedi (and Sith) just seem to just pop up out of the woodwork --like Rey-- so hunting them down for the sake of it seems like playing a game of wack-a-mole.

Even the Sith didn't hunt down Jedi just for the hell of it.

Also, I think you should start a 'I hate Rey' thread. I think you really need to let that out.

 

[Shymer]

He's a terrorist leader responsible (directly or through inspiration) for the deaths of vast numbers of people and the destruction of sizable installations of inestimable symbolic and economic value to the government.

I have heard that it is not unknown for governments to spend vast amount of time and materiel mobilising significant military assets on a hunt for a man living in the mountains for ten years.

 

[fenrizz]

He's a terrorist leader responsible (directly or through inspiration) for the deaths of vast numbers of people and the destruction of sizable installations of inestimable symbolic and economic value to the government.

I have heard that it is not unknown for governments to spend vast amount of time and materiel mobilising significant military assets on a hunt for a man living in the mountains for ten years.

I love this response.
Really made my day.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip

Didn't even consider putting in spoiler warnings, did you? Bet it never even crossed your mind.

Spoiler: Here are the reasons that everyone is looking for him...

1: What you said is exactly why Rey wants to find him. She has seen darkness and evil, and she knows that the potential is within her to fight that darkness and evil. To fight it, she must become a Jedi, and there's only one known Jedi left that can train her.

2: The resistance wants to find him because he's a frickin' all-powerful space wizard. Having one of those on your side tends to be rather useful when you're in a war.

3: The baddies want to find him because if they kill Luke then the Jedi die with him. There will be no one left to pass on the Jedi teachings. As such: the dark side will reign unchecked.

 

[Groxnax]

Nah, they are all looking for him because he knows the secret behind blue milk.

 

[happyninja42]

The bad guys maybe want to find him and kill him because he's a Jedi and they're Sith and killing Jedi is what Sith do.

They are not sith. I don't care that they threw out the EU. They are not sith. Dark jedi at best.

Luke is the only light side force user in existence (as far as we know). Someone who helped defeat the emperor. Basically the only threat to dark jedi. And you want to know why they want to kill him? And the rebels are fighting dark side force users. You need light side force users to balance that out.

If he were ever to choose to com out of hiding and train new light side force users (as he is prob going to do now) it could be a real threat for the new order.

And again... NOT SITH

The term Sith is basically synonymous with "dark jedi". And honestly, we don't know what Snokes background is. He very well could be some surviving Sith apprentice from some other neck of the woods. Or whatever. *shrugs* We don't know at this point, and won't until Ep 8 at least.

 

[Weaver]

In the film I vividly recall them saying they want to find him in hopes they can restart the Jedi order.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The reason Luke went into exile in the first place is that his initial attempt at starting his own Jedi academy was such a wash that he threw his hands up and went to live on a mountain. Expecting him to just start another Jedi school after that seems fanciful. Also, Jedi don't need teachers anymore according to the movie, since Rey doesn't have any problems teaching herself advanced Jedi abilities on the fly.

I really wish people would relax the oh-so-hilarious Rey whining until they actually know the back story of the character introduced to them as a deliberate mystery. If Episodes 8 and 9 come out and it turns out Rey was a self-taught wunderkind, we can all wonder about the ramifications on the lore then. All it comes off as now is ridiculously sour grapes 1/3rd of the way into a story. The film is absolutely LITTERED with clues and pointers suggesting her lineage and possible prior training, but apparently a healthy portion of modern audiences literally need spoken exposition at every juncture to put two and two together. I don't know whether to be amused or depressed.

Also, he didn't go to "live on a mountain". Last anyone knows, he went looking for the original Jedi temple, seeking answers.

Again, Luke is on a mountain. If he cared at all about the damage his fallen pupil is wreaking he probably wouldn't have waited 20-30 years before getting off his butt to do something about it. Even if Luke did oppose them, he's still just one man. The common argument against Rey being completely OP in the final confrontation with Ren was that he was shot with a bowcaster bolt, so obviously Jedi aren't immune to conventional weaponry. The Empire First Order could just give a hundred of their men bowcasters and tell them to go wild. Although, these are stormtroopers... Better make it a thousand, chances are somebody will land a hit.

1. He is doing something about it, as discussed.
2. As Darth Vader quite famously says in the original film about the Death Star..."Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force". A Jedi of Luke's caliber is literally the most dangerous rogue element imaginable from the First Order/Snoke's perspective.
3. Oh goody, more Rey whinging.

We never really saw that the resistance was really hurting for recruits or anything, it was never shown that there was any lack of morale amongst the forces.

The resistance is TINY. They literally have the two X-Wing flights shown in the film and that is it.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Okay, so reading the thread so far people seem to be bringing up 4 main points, but I'm not convinced that the narrative of the movie fully supports them.

1) Luke can train more Jedi
The reason Luke went into exile in the first place is that his initial attempt at starting his own Jedi academy was such a wash that he threw his hands up and went to live on a mountain. Expecting him to just start another Jedi school after that seems fanciful. Also, Jedi don't need teachers anymore according to the movie, since Rey doesn't have any problems teaching herself advanced Jedi abilities on the fly.

The stated reason he left was to go learn more about the Jedi, presumably so he could better teach people about the force.

Also, force users spontaneously learning force tricks in a moment of need is a long established part of the franchise, it literally happens in the first movie. After about 2 minutes of ben saying "use the force!" Luke is able to block lasers blind, and he somehow programs a pair of guided missiles using the force better than a literal targeting computer could. In empire he uses the force to get his lightsaber even though Ben never indicates to him the force can be used in that way. Nothing Rey does is remarkable as a beginner force user.

2) Luke is a threat to the first order
Again, Luke is on a mountain. If he cared at all about the damage his fallen pupil is wreaking he probably wouldn't have waited 20-30 years before getting off his butt to do something about it. Even if Luke did oppose them, he's still just one man. The common argument against Rey being completely OP in the final confrontation with Ren was that he was shot with a bowcaster bolt, so obviously Jedi aren't immune to conventional weaponry. The Empire First Order could just give a hundred of their men bowcasters and tell them to go wild. Although, these are stormtroopers... Better make it a thousand, chances are somebody will land a hit.

As you are so fond of pointing out, Luke has been on a mountain in isolation for 20 years. How would he know the havoc his fallen pupil is wreaking? Maybe once he knows what is up he will get off his mountain and sort shit out.

Also, that combat situation only works if you get the chance to engage Luke in ideal circumstances, hence why it is so important to find him first so they can engage him in ideal circumstances, catching him off guard. Hell, don't mess with the bow casters, just shoot the planet his is sitting on with your planet killer. Or bomb him from orbit. Either way would work fine.

But if they don't get to engage Luke in an ideal situation then Luke is incredibly dangerous.

3) Luke is a symbol to the resistance
We never really saw that the resistance was really hurting for recruits or anything, it was never shown that there was any lack of morale amongst the forces. Even without Luke the resistance didn't have any problem pulling together to blow up the Death Planet in a sub-plot. So I don't see why there is any need for Luke as a symbol. In fact, I would say that the resistance already has a symbol: Poe. He's a charismatic, and ludicrously skilled pilot, who has now lead the assault that blew up the planet that blew up 5 planets. He's as big a hero as Luke ever was and he didn't even need magic powers to do it.

Why not two symbols? The amazing invincible space wizard veteran of the last war combined with the up and coming hot shot fighter pilot.

And no matter how good Poe is, Luke is galaxy famous. Even people living under rocks in the middle of nowhere (Rey) know exactly who he is. No matter how good Poe is he is not Luke Skywalker famous.

Also, yes it does show them hurting for recruits. The movie explicitly stated that now the new republic was destroyed the resistance completely lacked support, and even then, at what we can assume is the height of the resistances power (before that lack of support impacted their forces), they just barely manage to destroy the super weapon minutes before it fires. They could have used a lot more fire power and man power in that engagement, but since they were so short handed they had to make do with a plan that only works because of a fluke. The resistance is clearly out matched against the First Order.

4) Gotta kill the last Jedi
Someone pointed out that the bad guys haven't been called Sith, so if it's true that they aren't Sith I don't see why they should be interested in exterminating Jedi just for the heck of it. I mean, if there's a Jedi just sitting on a rock, the last thing you want to do is try and kill him, getting him angry so he'll come and thwart your ambiguous plans. Also, Jedi (and Sith) just seem to just pop up out of the woodwork --like Rey-- so hunting them down for the sake of it seems like playing a game of wack-a-mole.

Seems like an awful big risk to just hope Luke doesn't care that you are rebuilding the empire he dedicated his life to tearing down. As you are so keen to point out, he has been living in isolation for years, he almost certainly doesn't know about what is going on. Seems real unlikely that he is just going to continue sitting back once he knows what is up.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

The resistance is TINY. They literally have the two X-Wing flights shown in the film and that is it.

Warning, pedantic reply:

In fairness, the Resistance probably had in the neighborhood of a dozen upgraded X-wings plus a small number support ships like Leia's transport modified B-wing. The Resistance seems to be to the Republic like the Flying Tigers were to the US.

Still, it's a shame most of the Republic Fleet was destroyed in the Starkiller attack. I wonder what any remnant Navy forces look like? A rag-tag band of heavily modified transports and Corvettes with a Nebulon-B or two?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Warning, pedantic reply:

In fairness, the Resistance probably had in the neighborhood of a dozen upgraded X-wings plus a small number support ships like Leia's transport modified B-wing. The Resistance seems to be to the Republic like the Flying Tigers were to the US.

I'll get you for this. And your pedantic dog, too!

But yes, plus some support vehicles.

Still, it's a shame most of the Republic Fleet was destroyed in the Starkiller attack. I wonder what any remnant Navy forces look like? A rag-tag band of heavily modified transports and Corvettes with a Nebulon-B or two?

Yeah I'm unclear just how much of the Republic Fleet was taken out along with Hosnian Prime. C3PO's hysterics would suggest "most if not all of it", but 3PO is a known drama queen.

 

[Jadak]

I think they oversell it about and nobody actually cares that much. I mean, the New Order, sure, Kylo has his personal issues and Snoke doesn't want a new generation of Jedi showing up but even that, it only seems to be the one ship and Kylo that are off hunting down leads on that, not the entire New Order. So meh.

The other big group at the start of the movie would have been the Republic, and they didn't seem to give too much of a shit on any scale.

So really, you've just got the Resistance, which, while they may have more stuff deployed around the galaxy, seems mostly to just be Leia and a fighter squadron or two with some support stuff. So Leia is obviously going to be biased, but outside of that, what else has the group got? They're not strong enough themselves, to challenge the New Order (plot requirements of destroying planet-stations aside), so they're just latching on anything that will give them hope. The legacy of original trilogy Luke , the promise of a new generation of Jedi, and Leia's bias as a driving force are probably enough to give them that.

So in other words, it seems like everybody cares about finding Luke, because they do. But 'everybody' in this context, isn't much.

And yes, the map thing is stupid, which I assume it wasn't meant to be a map Luke left, but as some others have mentioned, a map of something else that correlates with where they knew Luke had gone, like locations of Jedi Temples or something. Although the movie does show a literal 'path to Luke', which yes, is retarded.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And yes, the map thing is stupid, which I assume it wasn't meant to be a map Luke left, but as some others have mentioned, a map of something else that correlates with where they knew Luke had gone, like locations of Jedi Temples or something. Although the movie does show a literal 'path to Luke', which yes, is retarded.

It was a map of "last known sightings" of Luke that formed a trail, is how I understood it.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Snip

Didn't even consider putting in spoiler warnings, did you? Bet it never even crossed your mind.

Whoops! Sorry about that!

I think they oversell it about and nobody actually cares that much. I mean, the New Order, sure, Kylo has his personal issues and Snoke doesn't want a new generation of Jedi showing up but even that, it only seems to be the one ship and Kylo that are off hunting down leads on that, not the entire New Order. So meh.

The other big group at the start of the movie would have been the Republic, and they didn't seem to give too much of a shit on any scale.

So really, you've just got the Resistance, which, while they may have more stuff deployed around the galaxy, seems mostly to just be Leia and a fighter squadron or two with some support stuff. So Leia is obviously going to be biased, but outside of that, what else has the group got? They're not strong enough themselves, to challenge the New Order (plot requirements of destroying planet-stations aside), so they're just latching on anything that will give them hope. The legacy of original trilogy Luke , the promise of a new generation of Jedi, and Leia's bias as a driving force are probably enough to give them that.

So in other words, it seems like everybody cares about finding Luke, because they do. But 'everybody' in this context, isn't much.

And yes, the map thing is stupid, which I assume it wasn't meant to be a map Luke left, but as some others have mentioned, a map of something else that correlates with where they knew Luke had gone, like locations of Jedi Temples or something. Although the movie does show a literal 'path to Luke', which yes, is retarded.

Okay, I guess I'll buy this, that the movie just does a poor job at showing the scale and importance of the "find Luke" efforts. The motivations given in the thread do make a lot more sense if it isn't something that both sides are expending hundreds of troops to accomplish.

Also, I think you should start a 'I hate Rey' thread. I think you really need to let that out.

Rey is really just a symptom of the contrivance based storytelling going on in Force Awakens and not the problem herself. Most things happened because it was convenient for the plot rather than because it was a natural progression of events, and Rey just had more of those moments than any other character.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Because he's the macGuffin [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin],
his only purpose is to give the heroes and the villains something in common to pursue.

Yet another "troper" who fails to use TV Tropes in any meaningful way. When someone asks "why is this plot point" it contributes NOTHING to just say "it's because of this plot device" and leave it at that. Nobody cares about that shit. Tropes are tools, you don't GO INTO a plot saying "okay, I need this trope, this trope, and this trope." TV Tropes has done nothing but spawn dipshits who spout trope names like their own little in-jokes without ever contributing to any real analysis, which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what the site was intended to do. Maybe think a little before you numbly suck the fun out of any plot discussion.

That's... less helpful then what Eclipse Dragon submitted. At least he submitted something on topic, even if its objectively false (Which it is, if we're using TVTropes as the definitive source for, well, definitions). Tirades against a group of people not even present is less then useful.

Perhaps, instead of raging against the misuse of the term and the website, you could instead explain why its false. For example:

To determine if a thing is a MacGuffin:

-Check to see if it is interchangeable. For example, in a caper story the MacGuffin could be either the Mona Lisa or the Hope diamond, it makes no difference which. The rest of the story (i.e. it being stolen) would be exactly the same. It doesn't matter which it is, it is only necessary for the characters to want it.

-Does it do anything, and if it does, is it ever actually used in story? If the answer to both is yes, it's a Plot Device, not a MacGuffin. For Plot Devices that get the same attention as a MacGuffin, compare Magnetic Plot Device.

Lets try to apply these tests to Luke Skywalker in Episode 7.

Check to see if it is interchangeable.

Luke is not interchangeable in the movie. He's a key character in the universe, fully fleshed out, and is explicitly a unique item - The Last Jedi. No other person or organization stands opposed to the Dark Side that is represented by the primary antagonist. While the quest to find Luke is under represented in the movies climax, it makes up a generous portion of the beginning, enough to where his removal would fundamentally change the course of the film.

So Luke fails as a MacGuffin on this count.

Does it do anything, and if it does, is it ever actually used in story?

Luke does do stuff, but he doesn't do it in this film.

To be fair to everyone involved though, MacGuffin has a varied history when it comes to terminology. George Lucas had a bizarre opinion on the term.

On the commentary soundtrack to the 2004 DVD release of Star Wars, writer and director George Lucas describes R2-D2 as "the main driving force of the movie ? what you say in the movie business is the MacGuffin ? the object of everybody's search". In TV interviews, Hitchcock defined a MacGuffin as the object around which the plot revolves, but as to what that object specifically is, he declared, "the audience don't care". Lucas, on the other hand, believes that the MacGuffin should be powerful and that "the audience should care about it almost as much as the duelling heroes and villains on-screen".

 

[visiblenoise]

Because he's the macGuffin [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin],
his only purpose is to give the heroes and the villains something in common to pursue.

Yet another "troper" who fails to use TV Tropes in any meaningful way. When someone asks "why is this plot point" it contributes NOTHING to just say "it's because of this plot device" and leave it at that. Nobody cares about that shit. Tropes are tools, you don't GO INTO a plot saying "okay, I need this trope, this trope, and this trope." TV Tropes has done nothing but spawn dipshits who spout trope names like their own little in-jokes without ever contributing to any real analysis, which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what the site was intended to do. Maybe think a little before you numbly suck the fun out of any plot discussion.

Well, I for one agree with you. It's like "Why does this sound good?" "It's an E minor chord." "Why is this healthy?" "It's classified as a vegetable." It sets a frame for the answer, but doesn't actually give any answer.

Obligatory on-topic point: it's the Jedi thing isn't it? Without him, there's no hope of any more Jedi. And Luke probably just doesn't know what is going on, and doesn't really care because he thinks he's a failure.

 

[Winnosh]

Where'd you get the 20 years of moping on an mountain from. He's only been missing for like 3 years or at most

 

[Kolby Jack]

Because he's the macGuffin [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MacGuffin],
his only purpose is to give the heroes and the villains something in common to pursue.

Yet another "troper" who fails to use TV Tropes in any meaningful way. When someone asks "why is this plot point" it contributes NOTHING to just say "it's because of this plot device" and leave it at that. Nobody cares about that shit. Tropes are tools, you don't GO INTO a plot saying "okay, I need this trope, this trope, and this trope." TV Tropes has done nothing but spawn dipshits who spout trope names like their own little in-jokes without ever contributing to any real analysis, which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what the site was intended to do. Maybe think a little before you numbly suck the fun out of any plot discussion.

That's... less helpful then what Eclipse Dragon submitted. At least he submitted something on topic, even if its objectively false (Which it is, if we're using TVTropes as the definitive source for, well, definitions). Tirades against a group of people not even present is less then useful.

You're not wrong, but I'm mad, and sometimes you gotta let someone be mad. If a guy gets upset when his credit card is declined, you just gotta let him work it out, not comment on how it was probably declined because he has poor finance management skills and getting mad doesn't change that. So I agree with you, but I hate you. Fair?

OP: The fact of the matter is Luke is a loose end that Snoke can't afford to leave hanging. He's too powerful to just be out there, even if he's lost hope. That situation can always change, and then Snoke has a really dangerous enemy on his hands. Kylo Ren probably wants Luke dead to avenge Vader. The novelization (which may or may not be canon, I'm not sure) says that Snoke told Ren Vader's betrayal of the Emporer was a moment of weakness caused by seeing his son suffer, which fits with Ren's view of the light side as a weakness. So Kylo Ren probably sees Luke as the one ultimately responsible for Vader's death.

 

[DefunctTheory]

So I agree with you, but I hate you. Fair?

Fair enough, though my feeling are hurt.

I'll survive.

Where'd you get the 20 years of moping on an mountain from. He's only been missing for like 3 years or at most

He's been missing for at least a decade.