Why is gaming (and everything else) repeating itself?
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I can't find it now, but I remember a quote that went something like this:
"There are only ever three good shows on television. There were three good shows when there were only three channels, and there are still only three good shows now that there are hundreds of channels."
By contrast, the Final Fantasy games are relatively consistent. The Zelda games, too, are almost clones of each other.
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Two more words: Clover Studios [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_96/537-Vision-Doesnt-Sell-Copies].
"There are only ever three good shows on television. There were three good shows when there were only three channels, and there are still only three good shows now that there are hundreds of channels."
Ah, but all the Mario games are different! Some more than others, sure, but overall the similarity of the title character belies a big difference in the content of the games. Super Mario Galaxy is quite unlike Super Mario 64 and almost nothing like Super Mario Bros. Not to mention Mario Kart, Mario Strikers, Mario Hoops, Smash Bros, etc. - all with the same box art but wildly different gameplay!atheistium said:
By contrast, the Final Fantasy games are relatively consistent. The Zelda games, too, are almost clones of each other.
If only there was such a place [http://www.youtube.com/]...Cheeze_Pavilion said:
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Two more words: Clover Studios [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_96/537-Vision-Doesnt-Sell-Copies].
I think you're looking at genres (esp. manga and game shows) that typically exemplify stock characters and situations and ignoring the ones that don't.
To be honest if a game is a rehash I just don't buy it or play it. If it's a extension of a good formula (like Call of Duty 4 did with "modern warfare") I will play it. If it's something innovative that doesn't look overly childish or cheesy, I'll give it a shot (I wasn't a big fan of Portal, but I especially like mods that manage to flip game mechanics around from the base game so well and the Source engine tends to exemplify this).
I think there's easily enough innovation going around and marketed to consumers, just not enough development..games like DEFCON that had amazing gameplay got old quick and had glaring issues, and a lot of mods end up stalling (two that I can think of off the top of my head are First Strike for BF2142 and Zombie Master for HL2, both excellent mods with both ingenuity, both have seemingly stopped in their tracks updatewise). These sort of games just don't find traction for one reason or another. So you can look really deep and find them, but the average consumer is going to play the latest EA WWII shooter.
To be honest if a game is a rehash I just don't buy it or play it. If it's a extension of a good formula (like Call of Duty 4 did with "modern warfare") I will play it. If it's something innovative that doesn't look overly childish or cheesy, I'll give it a shot (I wasn't a big fan of Portal, but I especially like mods that manage to flip game mechanics around from the base game so well and the Source engine tends to exemplify this).
I think there's easily enough innovation going around and marketed to consumers, just not enough development..games like DEFCON that had amazing gameplay got old quick and had glaring issues, and a lot of mods end up stalling (two that I can think of off the top of my head are First Strike for BF2142 and Zombie Master for HL2, both excellent mods with both ingenuity, both have seemingly stopped in their tracks updatewise). These sort of games just don't find traction for one reason or another. So you can look really deep and find them, but the average consumer is going to play the latest EA WWII shooter.
Although I think originality in gaming has hardly been tapped dry, its because of great media communication and extended lifespans. Before a village could have no idea whats on the other side of the mountain and when the mayor from that town comes with his fancy horseless carriage everyone goes batshit insane. What is this new thingy! Now with live feeds that can be taken 10 floors underground in China, I tunes, and New York Times book reviews nothing isn't at our fingertips. Granted no one can know everything this world has to offer but they can at least get the feeling its possible. What we need is a good viral infection or holocaust, something like when raiders destroyed the Libraries of Alexandria. Kill everyone that knows past info and start fresh.
I want to never have known what an elephant was and see it at my present age, that would scare the shit out of me.
I want to never have known what an elephant was and see it at my present age, that would scare the shit out of me.
Screw original gameplay, I want an immersive, believable world, breathtaking story and characters that are alive. That's all thats really needed to make an epic masterpiece of a game. Ok, so the gameplay is the same as Wolfenstein 3d/Mario Bros./Final Fantasy whatever, the game will become a masterpiece because it takes everything that was done before it, throws it out the window and does it right.
There are enough innovative stuff out there...Of course there is even more stuff that is from the 'rinse-repeat' corner, but it always has been like that. Every concept out there was original at least once.
And remember; you vote with your wallet.
btw, I also notice a condescending view on 'the people'. People are no dumb fucktards. You are 'the people' too. It's so easy to talk shit on a mass like that.
Original stuff of that last 10 years I liked, there's a lot of it. God of war, Matrix, Harry Potter, Pikmin, Butterfly Effect, memento, fightclub, Lilo & Stitch, Ratatouille and a lot more.
Yeah, some of those things might have been based on other ideas, but afaik no blatant copies.
And remember; you vote with your wallet.
btw, I also notice a condescending view on 'the people'. People are no dumb fucktards. You are 'the people' too. It's so easy to talk shit on a mass like that.
Original stuff of that last 10 years I liked, there's a lot of it. God of war, Matrix, Harry Potter, Pikmin, Butterfly Effect, memento, fightclub, Lilo & Stitch, Ratatouille and a lot more.
Yeah, some of those things might have been based on other ideas, but afaik no blatant copies.
dumbshit developers seem to stick to whatever frame made the most money with the least effort... Kind of how porn went, but I REALLY do hope that games don't end up in the same pile 
PEOPLE THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO FIX THIS! STOP BUYING FPS GAMES NAD BUY MORE ADVENTURE/STORY DRIVEN GAMES!
PEOPLE THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO FIX THIS! STOP BUYING FPS GAMES NAD BUY MORE ADVENTURE/STORY DRIVEN GAMES!
You say that as though the two are mutually exclusive. Some of the most innovative, story-rich games of recent years have been FPSes. Most shooters aren't, sure, but think of Bioshock, Half-Life 2, Portal (sort of), The Darkness, Metroid Prime, et al.Bigfootmech said:
Besides, there's room for all. You can buy Medal of Honour and Okami; they don't cancel each other out.
Just something to remember:
Not everyone is as discerning as us Escapist forum types are. We are a very small percentage of consumers in all the markets we're talking about. We could all rally together and follow through with all these noble schemes of buying original content and so forth, and there are still millions out there who couldn't give two shits. What do you say to them?
Some of them are completely innocent. They're not mindless or crude, they're just looking for a fun time with their money and these mediums. They genuinely had a great time watching Spider-Man 3, and they think that buying the new Halo game for their Xbox 360 is a good idea. They don't see any guilt in it. You might not be able to understand why they're so satisfied, but if they enjoy it, what more can you ask from them?
Again, just something to remember.
Not everyone is as discerning as us Escapist forum types are. We are a very small percentage of consumers in all the markets we're talking about. We could all rally together and follow through with all these noble schemes of buying original content and so forth, and there are still millions out there who couldn't give two shits. What do you say to them?
Some of them are completely innocent. They're not mindless or crude, they're just looking for a fun time with their money and these mediums. They genuinely had a great time watching Spider-Man 3, and they think that buying the new Halo game for their Xbox 360 is a good idea. They don't see any guilt in it. You might not be able to understand why they're so satisfied, but if they enjoy it, what more can you ask from them?
Again, just something to remember.
There are a few reasons that this lack of creativity persists>
1: 'new ideas' are not endless. as soon as something 'new' pops up, anything semi-similar to it may be perceived as biting off of it in some form. therefore, new ideas can only be used once if they are to be both new and successful. there are exceptions of course where a product can be both a rip off of something and successful, if the original was a rather awful rendition of a great concept, and the biter just took everything good about the concept and delivered it better.
so reason 1 in a nutshell: creativity is not endless.
2: the stuff that game devs., writers, directors, etc. make has to be SELLABLE. in the end it comes down to whether people will be willing to buy it. that's why rarely do you see fresh new ideas turn out successful on a large scale. societies have 'societal norms' and things outside of that norm are usually shunned away with disapproval. stuff that is disapproved of by the majority of a market (the ppl you try to sell to) is destined to fail. and quite frankly, the market in the u.s. and in many other parts of the world is comprised of millions of people with conservative societal norms. for example in one of the zero punctuation reviews (GoW2) yahtzee pointed out that the game market consists "those emotionally fragile retards that make up 75% of the world's consumer base". though the exact figure is not really known, and the word retard is more figurative than literal, he does make a point nonetheless that games have to be made in way that "those emotionally fragile retards" buying it won't be disgusted by any off-beat-ness, subsequently giving the game a good rating.
reason 2 in a nutshell: it has to be socially acceptable if you want people to buy it
3: some ideas are used over and over repeatedly, because in the eyes of the market, they are good ideas. again, quoting yahtzee from the GoW2 review "it's worth remembering that sometimes popular things are popular for a reason - because they're good." which really means that popular thigsnare popular because it fits firmly within societal norms and excells that the things that society deems to be amusing.
reason 3 in a nutshell: the things that society likes are the things a smart company will try to sell because it is more likely to profit
damn, that was a long reply
and there are probably other reasons that new stuff doesn't come out but since new ideas aren't endless, i'll let someone else explain them
1: 'new ideas' are not endless. as soon as something 'new' pops up, anything semi-similar to it may be perceived as biting off of it in some form. therefore, new ideas can only be used once if they are to be both new and successful. there are exceptions of course where a product can be both a rip off of something and successful, if the original was a rather awful rendition of a great concept, and the biter just took everything good about the concept and delivered it better.
so reason 1 in a nutshell: creativity is not endless.
2: the stuff that game devs., writers, directors, etc. make has to be SELLABLE. in the end it comes down to whether people will be willing to buy it. that's why rarely do you see fresh new ideas turn out successful on a large scale. societies have 'societal norms' and things outside of that norm are usually shunned away with disapproval. stuff that is disapproved of by the majority of a market (the ppl you try to sell to) is destined to fail. and quite frankly, the market in the u.s. and in many other parts of the world is comprised of millions of people with conservative societal norms. for example in one of the zero punctuation reviews (GoW2) yahtzee pointed out that the game market consists "those emotionally fragile retards that make up 75% of the world's consumer base". though the exact figure is not really known, and the word retard is more figurative than literal, he does make a point nonetheless that games have to be made in way that "those emotionally fragile retards" buying it won't be disgusted by any off-beat-ness, subsequently giving the game a good rating.
reason 2 in a nutshell: it has to be socially acceptable if you want people to buy it
3: some ideas are used over and over repeatedly, because in the eyes of the market, they are good ideas. again, quoting yahtzee from the GoW2 review "it's worth remembering that sometimes popular things are popular for a reason - because they're good." which really means that popular thigsnare popular because it fits firmly within societal norms and excells that the things that society deems to be amusing.
reason 3 in a nutshell: the things that society likes are the things a smart company will try to sell because it is more likely to profit
damn, that was a long reply
and there are probably other reasons that new stuff doesn't come out but since new ideas aren't endless, i'll let someone else explain them
Alright to be honest I didn't read the whole first post, don't blame me I'm tired. So I wont really put in an opinion just a quote
"History is doomed to repeat istelf"
"History is doomed to repeat istelf"
