Why is it ok for good guys to kill

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Squilookle

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Because no matter how many guards are killed, and how cold blooded the murder of the evil executive is, it is still better than the alternative. That is- the evil company goes on doing whatever evil things sparked off the story in the first place. Any and all people working in co-operation with the bad guys represent an obstacle to the hero, and while it is (sometimes) preferrable to leave them be if they can, if it comes down to a mook or the hero, the hero will kill without question, because the hero's task requires that the goal be reached, and this can't be done if the hero is dead.

In short, the End Justifies the Means, because the End is more important than anything, often including the hero even surviving.
 

katsumoto03

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It isn't okay for protagonists to kill innocents, but it's their false sense of superiority that allow them to do it with a clear conscience.

Sometimes the few must die so the many may live, but that's never a decision that you should casually make. I've seen many a hero sacrifice the many to save their families.
 

DanielDeFig

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Merkavar said:
Why in movies and tv shows no one cares if they kill innocent people?

Ok so there is a good guy with loads of guns and there is an evil guy running a company and the building is protected by security guards. Why is it ok for the good guy to shoot these seemingly innocent security guards. They probably are working to support their wife and kids and most likely have nothing to do with the bad guys evil plans.

Is it just collateral damage, they are need to die for the greater good?

Or am i just thinking too much?
No, you're thinking the right amount. Ethically, killing is ALWAYS wrong. Sometimes when options are limited, and lives are in danger, killing may be necessary (Because your options are limited, and killing involves the least risk), but it's still wrong. It would be nice if more movies made it it a point to sympathize with followers(Security guards people too), and either attempt non-lethal methods or emphasize how they are 'the few' who need to be tragically sacrificed, for the survival of many others.
I have seen a few stories where the main characters and their friends try their best get through fights with enemies, while keeping as many people alive as possible. But these stories are rare, and usually involve the main characters being "young and naive to the harsh reality of the world".
More prominent (but still relatively rare outside Anime/Manga) is the "Sacrifice the few for the benefit of the many", but even this can be put in a black and white contrast where sparing people is purely evil and refusing to take risks is purely evil. Good versions of this are also rare.
Sad, but if people like us demand more ethical consideration(or create our own work with it) from entertainment, then maybe they will become less rare. The rule of 90% crap for any media still holds, but if the media itself grows (like videogames have been doing), then the 10% of non-crap will be more numerous.
 

Scarim Coral

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Because they got caught up in the heat of the moment? Would you try to be careful to the people around you when the villain with no remorse just blast away with his/her gun at you? OK I can get showing compassion to the people around you but I won't let my cautions hinder my ability to take the villain down. All I can say is at least I try to be careful.
 

B. I. Flight

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Like most things in life worth talking about, this one has been the subject of a Cracked list.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16377_6-great-action-heroes-who-should-be-convicted-murder.html

I love that Neo is the first subject. :D Nevertheless, this is a very valid topic and I love some of the thought I've seen here.
 

WaffleGod

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Because there's no thing as good or evil, there are just actions. Society just labels these actions as "good" or "evil" because of their point of view.
 

MaxwellEdison

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Because generally the characters represent ideas and the deaths of others are just details that really don't have anything to do with the metaphor or the point the film is trying to make.

Or in reality, and not my dreams about movies being good, because explosions are cool, especially in shitty 3d.
 

Terminal Blue

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The Matrix actually justified itself pretty well in this regard right until it took a left turn at bullshit city at the end of the series. The first film made it very clear, anyone who is still a part of the 'system' should be considered actively hostile because agents can possess them at any time. Also, because they can't be safely disconnected in adulthood (despite the fact that the third film fucks this hard by implying they are, incidentally leaving the machines in a permanent coma from lack of power - great negotiating skills guys!) they're basically dead already.

In other cases, willing suspension of disbelief. The same reason it's okay to murder tons of dudes in a game because they're wearing a circa 1932 German army uniform or the wrong colour hats or have the wrong skin pigmentation (low, I know).

More generally, it's because mainstream cinema is based on the idea of the promoting identification to a protagonist. This makes the protagonist actions seem okay, because they're not presented as having moral significance and we can generally accept that we're watching a constructed film which doesn't have real consequences. Some films really fuck with this by playing along with the idea of a protagonist but then making their actions genuinely disturbing or pushing beyond the 'you can murder people as long as they don't show any will to live and have less than ten minutes of screen time' principle.
 

Verlander

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I thought this was the point of Terminator 2, and the fact that good guys shouldn't kill... the only reason the Terminator did was because he was, well, a Terminator. When ordered not to, he proved that he could easily function without the death toll

Most other action films pale in comparison to Terminator 2 on the awesome scale, so I think that's pretty much it.
 

Joshroom

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Excellent thread.

I agree with some of the earlier comments that talk about "the heat of the moment". When the "good guy" is on a mission and guns down potentially innocent bystanders, its fair enough to take issue with it, even if the ends do justify the means. But in the end, the "good guy" is still just a guy, a normal person usually, and its hard to differentiate exactly whos "good" or "evil" in those essential split seconds.

Unless it was in some dungeons and dragons inspired universe. Then they could just decect morality and see if they were evil. How much easier would that be?
 

Ganthrinor

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Getting shot up or beaten or stabbed or what-have-you is all part and parcel of the job when you work as security anywhere. If you somehow are not aware you are working for the Evil Overlords, you just have to hope that headquarters gets raided by the Good Guys on your day off. It's a risk. They accepted it and all that goes along with it when they took the job.

I would also like to direct you to this little article on TVTropes: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FacelessGoons
 

Smooth Operator

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Aiden_the-Joker1 said:
I have been thinking about this also. Some scenes from films annoy me like in the first matrix where they kill the security guards at the end. I did not like the scene as much because of it. Why didn't they just sneak past them? You know, go in through a window? Ah well I just get annoyed at those heroes killing my henchmen. I have to pay for those guys.
Not when they are dead you don't :p

Well how to put it... "History is written by the victors" would be the best match, "good guys" do good, "evil guys" do "evil" and can be killed without remorse, and both sides will write the same thing: "we were right".

You think an Axis soldier was any different then an Allies soldier?
They were both barely legal age guys spoon fed some patriotic/freedom bull, equipped with guns and sent off to shoot the "bad guys", the only difference was on which side they were standing at the moment.
And the same goes for every other army, be it crusaders, invaders or terrorists.
 

Vault101

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Well to be honest I havnt seen that many movies or even games where the good guy kills an inocent who had nothing to do with the situation,

sure they kill people who are "henchmen" or similar but I think most good guys wouldnt if they were given the choice (well depending on their morality), of coarse killing is always a grey act in itself

In fact I think comander shepard says somthing like this "You kill because your paid to, I kill because people give me no other choice.." well you get the Idea

I mean when I kill legionaries, especially the low ranking ones in Fallout New vegas I feel kind of bad because they were probably brainwashed to be that way, plus its tough being a legionarie

but as I said before Ive seen very few films where the hero directly kills innocent bystanders, thogh often their actions could indirectly cause harm
 

TheFPSisDead

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How about that one part of Max Payne in Nicole Hornes corporate headquarters when one of the hired security guys says something about having a wife and a family and just doing the security gig for the paycheck.... then Max busts in and fills everyone full of bullets.
 

Baby Eater

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Ever seen Batman?

He never kills anyone because it would make him as bad as the villains he fights and he's devastated when he thinks he killed a crook and even fought the Punisher (Very rare DC/Marvel crossover) because he tried to kill a pick pocket.
 

Popido

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"Good guys"? No no no. Those where terrorists. Their propaganda just mislead you to think otherwise.
 

Thaliur

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rokkolpo said:
They just lie harder.
Now THAT's an action movie I'd definitely watch! "Lie Hard" sounds like a good title to me :)

Maybe in the case of Matrix it could be said that they don't actually kill those people, just their avatars in the Matrix. Then again, it's explicitly stated that if you die in the Matrix, you die in the real world, even if you know it's not real, so that excuse doesn't count.

Actually, it's a good point. Lots of people die that don't actually have anything to do woth the plot and just happen to be in the way. I like it when movie scripts really care for those people (Like Farscape, where it's thoroughly discussed if blowing up a space station is justified, even if it belongs to an enemy species).
 

drummond13

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WaffleGod said:
Because there's no thing as good or evil, there are just actions. Society just labels these actions as "good" or "evil" because of their point of view.
Ah amateur, naive philosophy. "There is no ethical code, good and evil are just individual concepts!"

I'd study philosophy a bit more if I were you. For some reason everyone seems to go through a phase where they really believe this bull@#$%.