Why Is Nihilism Bad?

[Realitycrash]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

No, he actually got it right (pretty much). Nihilism is the meta-ethical standpoint that there are no absolute, objective values. Nothing that is "right" and "wrong" in itself. Murder, for instance, isn't intrinsically wrong (though one can make it so in ones normative-ethics), because there IS no "right" or "wrong" existences in the world.

There is nothing in the world that exists outside of us that is this "wrongness" or "rightness" is an objective, independent value of humans. In fact, there are no values what so ever (Idealists can say that there are, but that they are depedant upon humans existing), and "right" and "wrong" is simply what we talk about when we make a statement to either say "this pleases me and is in accordance with my normative ethics" or "this does not please me and is not in accorancde with my normative ethics" (Also knowns as Emotivism).

In short: Nihilism doesn't say "nothing is valuable", just that "there is nothing valueable in the world as it self". You can still FEEL that things are valueable, and act accordingly, but they aren't. It's just you projecting.
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

 

[WanderingFool]

I'm effectively a nihilist; I believe that life has no point, and that nothing within it ultimately matters. I'm similarly unencumbered by thoughts of god(s), the afterlife, or how the world came to be.

However, rather than moan about how depressing that may sound or use it as an excuse to act like a dick because it doesn't matter in the end anyway (which it arguably doesn't, to be fair), I instead choose to find value as I see it. Having no purpose to life means I'm not obligated to do anything in particular, and that I can choose to do as I feel is right. I also believe that whether our actions matter or not, they potentially have lasting consequences that can make life more comfortable, or less so, for others, long after we are gone. To that end, I choose to make this pointless existence as pleasant as I can for others while also trying to empower them to do so for themselves when they can, and for others.

I'm not saying we should all be holding hands and hugging trees (hell, I can't even stand being around most people), but we could stand to be assholes to one another a lot less often. Our lives may very well have no purpose, or meaning, but that doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, seek to make life enjoyable for all. We haven't been clearly showed we have anything better to do, and frankly, we probably never will be.

That was beautifully put.

Oh God... I had a captcha that actually had Nihilist in it...

*Edit*

How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

 

[El Dwarfio]

But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

I'd argue that Nihilism isn't a philosophical position but rather a complete lack of philosophical position is thus inherently wrong (try convincing a Nihilist of that though).

There is also the great contradiction of Nihilism to consider - that Nihilism has no worth, purpose or value and therefore is not worth believing in.

Finally whether you believe it or not, everybody holds something with intrinsic worth, even if that worth is subjective, ergo most nihilists build their arguments on ignorance and denial.

EDIT:

How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

That's because most 'nihilists' are just emos / angsty teenagers trying to sound cool and intelligent while attempting justifying their apathy.

 

[Syzygy23]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

People who believe in nothing will believe in anything.
That, and not applying any intrinsic value to anything or anyone is what sociopaths do.

 

[Realitycrash]

Actually, let's keep in mind the different forms of Nihilism we have. To quote directly from Wikipedia, because I'm lazy.
"Nihilsm is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological, metaphysical, or ontological forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that contrary to popular belief, some aspect of reality does not exist as such."

There are many different forms of Nihlism, and the Hollywood-popular "Nothing matters and let's kill ourselves and others because nothing matters" is EXTREMELY FUCKING RARE and hardly held by ANY serious philosopher in history
Thank you.

 

[Realitycrash]

I'm effectively a nihilist; I believe that life has no point, and that nothing within it ultimately matters. I'm similarly unencumbered by thoughts of god(s), the afterlife, or how the world came to be.

However, rather than moan about how depressing that may sound or use it as an excuse to act like a dick because it doesn't matter in the end anyway (which it arguably doesn't, to be fair), I instead choose to find value as I see it. Having no purpose to life means I'm not obligated to do anything in particular, and that I can choose to do as I feel is right. I also believe that whether our actions matter or not, they potentially have lasting consequences that can make life more comfortable, or less so, for others, long after we are gone. To that end, I choose to make this pointless existence as pleasant as I can for others while also trying to empower them to do so for themselves when they can, and for others.

I'm not saying we should all be holding hands and hugging trees (hell, I can't even stand being around most people), but we could stand to be assholes to one another a lot less often. Our lives may very well have no purpose, or meaning, but that doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, seek to make life enjoyable for all. We haven't been clearly showed we have anything better to do, and frankly, we probably never will be.

That was beautifully put.

Oh God... I had a captcha that actually had Nihilist in it...

*Edit*

How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

Please scroll down and read my quote from Wikipedia.
Those people are called pessimists, and probably don't know the different sorts of Nihilism.
I wish people would really just check what "Nihilism" means before stating their opinion on it. The word can be translated to mean very different ideas..

 

[rob_simple]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

 

[Realitycrash]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

 

[rob_simple]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Semantics. And it's an oxymoron.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrinsically

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

Nihilism leaves room for personal morality and personality, though most people don't realize that. I'm a nihilist myself, and every time I mention it people assume that it means I don't care about my life, or their lives, or anything in between. This is of course not true. I don't believe these things have value or purpose which has been assigned upon their existence, but I do assign my own value to them based on what they can provide for me.

Example: I don't believe my life has purpose, but I do acknowledge that I can enjoy many things in life, whether they are physical or emotional. Therefore my personal mantra is "Live to enjoy" and I do whatever I need to in order to fulfill that. This leads me to get jobs, go to school, have friends, help friends and care about them just as any other person would. Why? Because it makes me feel good.

So, just because I don't believe things have intrinsic value or purpose, doesn't mean I'm a "bad" or immoral person. So to answer your question, the problem with Nihilism is in its perceived existence rather than its application.

 

[Realitycrash]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Semantics. And it's an oxymoron.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrinsically

You're right, it's Oxymoron. My bad.
And no, it isn't semantics. Unless you want to define your very own form of Nihilism (the only part you seem to describe might be "Epistemological Nihilism" in that you don't take any knowledge as set in stone).

 

[rob_simple]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Semantics. And it's an oxymoron.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrinsically

You're right, it's Oxymoron. My bad.
And no, it isn't semantics. Unless you want to define your very own form of Nihilism (the only part you seem to describe might be "Epistemological Nihilism" in that you don't take any knowledge as set in stone).

Fair enough, you're clearly more read up on the subject than I am so I'll submit to your superior knowledge.

None of the was sarcasm, incidentally; I just felt that it was polite to respond.

 

[Realitycrash]

Doing what you want with disregard to society's standards and morals doesn't mean you have to be a dickhead.

I would consider myself as leading an intrinsically Nihilistic life: I mostly spend money on feeding and housing myself; I don't pursue relationships or friendships or actively maintain the ones I do have; and I don't take any knowledge as set in stone and question everything.

I'm not hurting anyone, though, and I am pretty happy.

An "intrinsically Nihilistic life" is an oximoron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Semantics. And it's an oxymoron.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/intrinsically

You're right, it's Oxymoron. My bad.
And no, it isn't semantics. Unless you want to define your very own form of Nihilism (the only part you seem to describe might be "Epistemological Nihilism" in that you don't take any knowledge as set in stone).

Fair enough, you're clearly more read up on the subject than I am so I'll submit to your superior knowledge.

None of the was sarcasm, incidentally; I just felt that it was polite to respond.

Fair enough, fair enough. I study philosophy, and yes, this is one of the areas of my "expertise".
I was just bored and slightly tired of people thinking "We are NIHILISTS, WE BELIEVE IN NAAAATHIIING!" from Big Lebowiski is an accurate representation (not that I say you do).

 

[AgentNein]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

No, he actually got it right (pretty much). Nihilism is the meta-ethical standpoint that there are no absolute, objective values. Nothing that is "right" and "wrong" in itself. Murder, for instance, isn't intrinsically wrong (though one can make it so in ones normative-ethics), because there IS no "right" or "wrong" existences in the world.

There is nothing in the world that exists outside of us that is this "wrongness" or "rightness" is an objective, independent value of humans. In fact, there are no values what so ever (Idealists can say that there are, but that they are depedant upon humans existing), and "right" and "wrong" is simply what we talk about when we make a statement to either say "this pleases me and is in accordance with my normative ethics" or "this does not please me and is not in accorancde with my normative ethics" (Also knowns as Emotivism).

In short: Nihilism doesn't say "nothing is valuable", just that "there is nothing valueable in the world as it self". You can still FEEL that things are valueable, and act accordingly, but they aren't. It's just you projecting.
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

Alright then, I guess I'm unclear on what separates the nihilist from the existentialist, as I was under the impression that this is the position of the existentialist as well?

 

[Realitycrash]

As I understand it nihilism is the belief that nothing has any intrinsic value, there is no such thing as objective morality, and that objective knowledge is impossible to obtain. To me this has always seemed mostly reasonable and agreeable, and I would describe myself as a nihilist on at least those first two counts. Yet I often hear people talk about nihilism as if it's negative or pointless, similar to how people react to solipsism. Why exactly is this? I don't see anything about nihilism, at least on these three core assertions, that would lead people to treat the position with such disdain, apart from a purely emotional reaction someone might have because of the perceivably cold nature of said claims. But that is obviously not solid grounds for rejecting a philosophical position. So what else is there that makes people think it's bad?

as I understand it, the first thing you described is better defined as absurdism or rather existentialism.

Nihilism is the whole that one might fall in when venturing into existentialism. That rut of "there is no intrinsic value or meaning to anything, so there is no value or meaning period, so fuck it".

Existentialists tend to say that at least we can bring our own personal, invented meanings and values to the world, even though they don't exist universally. Nihilists don't. At least is my personal understanding, anyone feel free to correct me.

No, he actually got it right (pretty much). Nihilism is the meta-ethical standpoint that there are no absolute, objective values. Nothing that is "right" and "wrong" in itself. Murder, for instance, isn't intrinsically wrong (though one can make it so in ones normative-ethics), because there IS no "right" or "wrong" existences in the world.

There is nothing in the world that exists outside of us that is this "wrongness" or "rightness" is an objective, independent value of humans. In fact, there are no values what so ever (Idealists can say that there are, but that they are depedant upon humans existing), and "right" and "wrong" is simply what we talk about when we make a statement to either say "this pleases me and is in accordance with my normative ethics" or "this does not please me and is not in accorancde with my normative ethics" (Also knowns as Emotivism).

In short: Nihilism doesn't say "nothing is valuable", just that "there is nothing valueable in the world as it self". You can still FEEL that things are valueable, and act accordingly, but they aren't. It's just you projecting.
How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

Alright then, I guess I'm unclear on what separates the nihilist from the existentialist, as I was under the impression that this is the position of the existentialist as well?

Eh, I guess I should have pointed out that there are many forms of Nihilism, and I just described "Meta-ethical Nihilism". Sorry, my bad. There are "Nihilists" on the normative scale of ethics too (the "fuck it, nothing matters" peoople), but they are rare, and I would rather call them egoists (since they tend to be "since nothing matters, I will do whatever I fucking feel like", but they clearly think that themselves matter, and will cry like little babies when THEY get hurt, so..).
An extistensialist might question if the values that we hold to be true really are true, but would probably say that value is something we create by ourselves, and we shouldn't feel dictated by others into accepting a certain "right" or "wrong".
However, existensialism isn't my strong-suit, and an existensialist can be a (meta-ethical) nihilist too. He can say "nothing really has value in itself" but still claim "I can act and pretend that it does, though, and when I pretend that it does, I, my actions, give it value. But this value doesn't exist without me or anyone else to interpret it, nor can it be seen as valueable in itself. It is valueable because it is practical for it to be valueable to me."

 

[WanderingFool]

I'm effectively a nihilist; I believe that life has no point, and that nothing within it ultimately matters. I'm similarly unencumbered by thoughts of god(s), the afterlife, or how the world came to be.

However, rather than moan about how depressing that may sound or use it as an excuse to act like a dick because it doesn't matter in the end anyway (which it arguably doesn't, to be fair), I instead choose to find value as I see it. Having no purpose to life means I'm not obligated to do anything in particular, and that I can choose to do as I feel is right. I also believe that whether our actions matter or not, they potentially have lasting consequences that can make life more comfortable, or less so, for others, long after we are gone. To that end, I choose to make this pointless existence as pleasant as I can for others while also trying to empower them to do so for themselves when they can, and for others.

I'm not saying we should all be holding hands and hugging trees (hell, I can't even stand being around most people), but we could stand to be assholes to one another a lot less often. Our lives may very well have no purpose, or meaning, but that doesn't mean that we can't, or shouldn't, seek to make life enjoyable for all. We haven't been clearly showed we have anything better to do, and frankly, we probably never will be.

That was beautifully put.

Oh God... I had a captcha that actually had Nihilist in it...

*Edit*

How is this depressing? It just means that you have to create value yourself.

I think, based upon the few nihilists Ive met in my life, they dont get that part...

Please scroll down and read my quote from Wikipedia.
Those people are called pessimists, and probably don't know the different sorts of Nihilism.
I wish people would really just check what "Nihilism" means before stating their opinion on it. The word can be translated to mean very different ideas..

For whatever reason, I feel I need to be defensive about this phrase.

 

[TWRule]

Alright then, I guess I'm unclear on what separates the nihilist from the existentialist, as I was under the impression that this is the position of the existentialist as well?

The main difference is that the nihilist (broadly understood and given that they adhere to that position), stops at the idea that everything is meaningless while the existentialist (this idea not necessarily being limited to that particular movement) is willing to admit a state of inherent meaninglessness but then takes the next step by suggesting that humanity create its own purpose/meaning.

By the way, as others have pointed out, there are many forms of nihilism. Most of those in this thread who claim to subscribe to or support nihilism are talking about cognitive nihilism (the idea that no belief can be grounded upon objective truth because no such truth exists), or don't realize that calling yourself a nihilist implies that you refuse to take the next step toward creating meaning.

P.S. For those who might still be confused, here's existential nihilism in auditory form:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/RPUXsqshayk

 

[Logiclul]

Well, the nihilistic philosophy can lead to belief that nothing matters in life, except personal enjoyment, which would mean that giving to charity, helping others, and generally performing any act that isn't inherently selfish, would be a waste of effort. The darker side of nihilism is basically Nietsche's "ubermench" or superman. A man who has released himself from all shackles of society and culture, and common decency, to soley devote himself to himself. Doing what he wants, when he wants to do it, and never thinking "how will my actions affect other people", because it doesn't matter.

Also, fun fact: Shelob from Lord of The Rings was essentially a nihilist (well, from the books, the movies didn't look at her character at all) and she is actually probably the most powerful being in all Middle Earth, because of her Nihilistic hatred for it all.

This guy said it pretty well.

Basically, you are attracted to the three "cores" of nihilism (not sure if those three pillars are official or not) without actually applying them to life in a sophisticated fashion (which incidentally is how most religious people seem to function).

If you try to logically solve common issues regarding human action and thought whilst applying nihilistic values, you'll find that the assertion which "Hero in half a shell" puts forth in his post is actually quite valid.

 

[BishopofAges]

Shortest answer to this one is, people equate nihilism to 'not giving a shit' and that assumed 'attitude' is frowned upon by happy people who want the world to be a happy place.

mid-edit: The baseline for the above 'assumption' is because people never bother to dig below the surface to understand, and if they do, they understand and remain silent while the ignorant judge.

Neutrality is never a bad option, means you're ready for nearly anything without giving any extra effort one way or the other.

 

[Olas]

From my experience most "nihilists" are just people choosing to distance themselves from the world because they've recently experienced a significant tragedy in their life. It's like a coping mechanism, if they don't care about anything then nothing can bother them. I know because I've been there. It may be that they believe in nihilism for logical reasons, which they'll gladly point out, but in every case I've seen there's always been a background event to spur it on.

However, I doubt most of these "nihilists" are truly are just that. I'm not sure it's even possible for a human being to truly be nihilistic(without having a brain disorder). It goes against our basic human instincts. Nihilists should have no emotions, and emotions drive all of our voluntary actions. So unless they sit perfectly still 24/7 and do nothing at all except involuntary bodily functions, I can't see how they can be a true nihilist.