Why is the Citizens of Earth Kickstarter failing?

[Soundwave]

So there's a Kickstarter for an American made (well, Canadian really) JRPG style rpg. It's being described as a cross between Earthbound, Pokemon and Suikoden.

It's barely getting any funding though, and they're only shooting for 100k. The guys running the kickstarter have no idea why it hasn't been funded yet, and I'm at a loss as to why as well.

They even have a demo up.

Essentially, I'm asking what "you" see that's wrong with it (and maybe letting people know about it, if it's simply a failure of advertising).

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/499609193/citizens-of-earth-a-modern-rpg

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Not the first time I see something that looks and sounds awesome not get the funding they want, even when it's not asking for that much. Pity, really.

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

Hey folks, I'm Ryan the creator of Citizens of Earth. Thanks for starting this thread Soundwave! It's true that we are a bit bewildered at the Kickstarter progress thus far, especially when you consider how much people are enjoying the demo! But we're very open to suggestions if someone sees something intrinsically unappealing about the Kickstarter project. And otherwise, yes, letting people know about it would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Launcelot111]

This is the first I've heard of it, which is probably an issue, but the combination of influences at play here looks pretty fun.

One thing about their Kickstarter page that I found super disconcerting though: 25% of donation go straight to fees and taxes? I don't know if that's specific to Canada, but either way, it's sort of a depressing thought that so much money gets siphoned away like that.

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

This is the first I've heard of it, which is probably an issue, but the combination of influences at play here looks pretty fun.

One thing about their Kickstarter page that I found super disconcerting though: 25% of donation go straight to fees and taxes? I don't know if that's specific to Canada, but either way, it's sort of a depressing thought that so much money gets siphoned away like that.

It's not specific to Canada, I just think maybe some Kickstarter project creators don't do a lot of research into all of the fees and such. Many creators are surprised, for example, when their business gets audited because they didn't report the Kickstarter money as income. But the government wants their cut! So once you factor in Kickstarter's share, the fees for payment processing, and the government, it sure does take a solid chunk out of the money raised.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Essentially, I'm asking what "you" see that's wrong with it (and maybe letting people know about it, if it's simply a failure of advertising).

1. Kickstarter Fatigue
2. Lack of established IP
3. Lack of established developer

All three would be obvious negative impacts. Beyond that, you can only speculate that something about the art style or game play is putting people off.

It's true that we are a bit bewildered at the Kickstarter progress thus far, especially when you consider how much people are enjoying the demo!

I assume you've sent the demo to all the larger YouTube gamer personalities? They have quite a bit of reach and have catapulted some languishing kickstarters into the limelight in the past.

Mind you they have to actually like your demo and they probably get hundreds of these things, but it's worth a shot.

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

I assume you've sent the demo to all the larger YouTube gamer personalities? They have quite a bit of reach and have catapulted some languishing kickstarters into the limelight in the past.

Mind you they have to actually like your demo and they probably get hundreds of these things, but it's worth a shot.

Yes we have, although as you say I'm sure they get hundreds of e-mails daily. The ones that have responded have really liked it though. Perhaps it's worth re-emailing them and hoping they don't think I'm too bothersome!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yes we have, although as you say I'm sure they get hundreds of e-mails daily. The ones that have responded have really liked it though. Perhaps it's worth re-emailing them and hoping they don't think I'm too bothersome!

If your demo is strong, you need people seeing it/playing it. That's probably your best avenue for marketing. I have no idea how those guys work. Slide them a filthy manilla envelope full of laundered greenbacks if you must.

You're down to 15 days at the moment and you're way off pace for hitting goal, so time is rather of the essence.

 

[Miss G.]

I don't go on Kickstarter, so I don't hear about these things until someone makes a thread, or better yet, the gaming personalities I follow on Youtube show it off and I can make a more informed decision from their gameplay/commentary.

 

[Vivi22]

This is the first I've heard of it.

To be honest, if people are responding well to your demo then marketing is almost certainly an issue. Probably the biggest issue. Though I have to be honest; JRPG's are a lot more niche than they used to be, especially on PC. And a JRPG made by a Canadian team that, if I've never heard of you before, a lot of other people haven't heard from either is going to struggle. I think you may have also over reached with the $100k goal as a result. I'd imagine more people would be willing to kick in if the goal was a bit more modest, and that momentum may carry through to after it's fully funded.

One thing I'd recommend doing is trying to get the word out to Linux users especially. They spend more on things like this and indie bundles than anyone else per person, and the Linux community tends to respond well to DRM free games getting released on that OS. It probably wouldn't be enough to reach the goal even with them contributing, but you might be surprised how much response you get from them.

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

This is the first I've heard of it.

To be honest, if people are responding well to your demo then marketing is almost certainly an issue. Probably the biggest issue. Though I have to be honest; JRPG's are a lot more niche than they used to be, especially on PC. And a JRPG made by a Canadian team that, if I've never heard of you before, a lot of other people haven't heard from either is going to struggle. I think you may have also over reached with the $100k goal as a result. I'd imagine more people would be willing to kick in if the goal was a bit more modest, and that momentum may carry through to after it's fully funded.

One thing I'd recommend doing is trying to get the word out to Linux users especially. They spend more on things like this and indie bundles than anyone else per person, and the Linux community tends to respond well to DRM free games getting released on that OS. It probably wouldn't be enough to reach the goal even with them contributing, but you might be surprised how much response you get from them.

Actually we've been chatting a lot with Linux users and have gotten a great response thus far (like this article: http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/citizens-of-earth-a-modern-rpg-on-kickstarter.2450/page=1 )

And regarding the goal, I agree that $100k is a lot to ask for, but it's also the realistic, practical amount. Granted we could have asked for less, but we'd then still need to find additional funding to finish the game. You're right that momentum may carry beyond, but according to the Kickstarter folks themselves, most projects that are successful receive very little beyond their goal. So we had to make a hard decision about what to ask for. And in the end we decided that asking for the realistic amount we needed was a better approach, since we felt it'd be a bit dishonest to backers if we ask for half, and then once that's done let them know that it wasn't enough. Backers expect the full product to be completed if the funding goal is hit, not that you halt development while seeking out the rest of the funding. You know what I mean?

 

[Weaver]

Really, I just don't have the spare income to throw at every single kickstarter out there.

 

[Miss G.]

This is the first I've heard of it.

To be honest, if people are responding well to your demo then marketing is almost certainly an issue. Probably the biggest issue. Though I have to be honest; JRPG's are a lot more niche than they used to be, especially on PC. And a JRPG made by a Canadian team that, if I've never heard of you before, a lot of other people haven't heard from either is going to struggle. I think you may have also over reached with the $100k goal as a result. I'd imagine more people would be willing to kick in if the goal was a bit more modest, and that momentum may carry through to after it's fully funded.

One thing I'd recommend doing is trying to get the word out to Linux users especially. They spend more on things like this and indie bundles than anyone else per person, and the Linux community tends to respond well to DRM free games getting released on that OS. It probably wouldn't be enough to reach the goal even with them contributing, but you might be surprised how much response you get from them.

This is for PC? Well, even though I pretty much only play JRPGs, that tidbit of info was enough to kill my burgeoning interest pretty quick. Still hope they get the necessary funding even though its not on a console/handheld.

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

This is for PC? Well, even though I pretty much only play JRPGs, that tidbit of info was enough to kill my burgeoning interest pretty quick. Still hope they get the necessary funding even though its not on a console/handheld.

While PC is the lead platform, there's a reasonably high chance it'll end up on consoles/handhelds. Not only has Nintendo sent us a Wii U dev kit due to their excitement to have the game on the Wii U, but we all have a lot of experience developing for the 3DS due to our work on Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon. And given that there's interest in other platforms too from people, we're more seriously investigating them. Suffice to say, we may revise the Kickstarter to reflect this fact soon...

 

[Miss G.]

This is for PC? Well, even though I pretty much only play JRPGs, that tidbit of info was enough to kill my burgeoning interest pretty quick. Still hope they get the necessary funding even though its not on a console/handheld.

While PC is the lead platform, there's a reasonably high chance it'll end up on consoles/handhelds. Not only has Nintendo sent us a Wii U dev kit due to their excitement to have the game on the Wii U, but we all have a lot of experience developing for the 3DS due to our work on Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon. And given that there's interest in other platforms too from people, we're more seriously investigating them. Suffice to say, we may revise the Kickstarter to reflect this fact soon...

That's good. I was talking to someone on a thread yesterday about why I don't view the PC as a viable gaming platform for me simply because my genre of choice is just not there. If I saw it on the Nintendo eShop for 3DS, that'd be good, since I'm not getting a WiiU quite yet (waiting on X, Pokken Fighters).

 

[schrodinger]

This is for PC? Well, even though I pretty much only play JRPGs, that tidbit of info was enough to kill my burgeoning interest pretty quick. Still hope they get the necessary funding even though its not on a console/handheld.

While PC is the lead platform, there's a reasonably high chance it'll end up on consoles/handhelds. Not only has Nintendo sent us a Wii U dev kit due to their excitement to have the game on the Wii U, but we all have a lot of experience developing for the 3DS due to our work on Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon. And given that there's interest in other platforms too from people, we're more seriously investigating them. Suffice to say, we may revise the Kickstarter to reflect this fact soon...

That sounds great that Nintendo is excited about your game, and possibly a good way to get exposure. For more exposure, have you tried sending the demo to big to mid big youtubers? Like TotalBiscuit for example, he's a supporter of the indie scene and might do a video on the demo or even a shout out. Try sending the demo to fraser of Video Game Awesome (VGA), again, they're supporters of indies and his show has a dedicated group of people that could be willing to help out. If I had some extra cash I would donate, but alas, no job.

Good luck with the kickstarter!

 

[Ryan Vandendyck]

That sounds great that Nintendo is excited about your game, and possibly a good way to get exposure. For more exposure, have you tried sending the demo to big to mid big youtubers? Like TotalBiscuit for example, he's a supporter of the indie scene and might do a video on the demo or even a shout out. Try sending the demo to fraser of Video Game Awesome (VGA), again, they're supporters of indies and his show has a dedicated group of people that could be willing to help out. If I had some extra cash I would donate, but alas, no job.

Good luck with the kickstarter!

Yes and yes to TotalBiscuit and VGA, though no response from either yet. Better try contacting them again I guess! And thanks for the well-wishes, it's very much appreciated

 

[Miss G.]

That sounds great that Nintendo is excited about your game, and possibly a good way to get exposure. For more exposure, have you tried sending the demo to big to mid big youtubers? Like TotalBiscuit for example, he's a supporter of the indie scene and might do a video on the demo or even a shout out. Try sending the demo to fraser of Video Game Awesome (VGA), again, they're supporters of indies and his show has a dedicated group of people that could be willing to help out. If I had some extra cash I would donate, but alas, no job.

Good luck with the kickstarter!

Yes and yes to TotalBiscuit and VGA, though no response from either yet. Better try contacting them again I guess! And thanks for the well-wishes, it's very much appreciated

I follow VGA, and Fraser does up their shows quick enough. They've done demos with the devs in their Twitch chat to ask questions and stuff during their live shows, so you'll have an audience of at least a few thousand not counting their followers who are only on their Youtube.

 

[Weaver]

Try hitting up Quill18 on youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/user/quill18 )
He's not huge, but has 107,000 subs and is a fellow Canuck.

While, not as big as TB and the like, that's probably to your advantage in this case as he doesn't have thousands of messages to look through.

 

[Racecarlock]

Hey folks, I'm Ryan the creator of Citizens of Earth. Thanks for starting this thread Soundwave! It's true that we are a bit bewildered at the Kickstarter progress thus far, especially when you consider how much people are enjoying the demo! But we're very open to suggestions if someone sees something intrinsically unappealing about the Kickstarter project. And otherwise, yes, letting people know about it would be greatly appreciated!

I'll admit I'm not a marketing genius, but why not simply go around the internet advertising a cross between earthbound, pokemon, and suikoden? Surely that's an awesome tag line. And if that doesn't work, try something like "Hey, do you want to do various awesome things? Well, this game lets you do those various awesome things! Support it and stuff.", of course replacing "Various awesome things" with whatever you do in this game.

Like, if I was advertising mechwarrior, my main advertising theme would be "Hey, do you like blowing things up with giant robots?". If I was advertising rogue squadron I'd go "Hey, want to be luke skywalker and defeat the empire in an X-wing?". If I was advertising GTA, I would go "Want to blow up stuff as a crazy criminal and hear lots of swear words and drug references?".

You probably get it by now. This isn't a guaranteed tactic, but it's certainly how I'd advertise to myself.