Why is the combat in the TES games so bad?

[Signa]

To answer the question in the OP, I do not like the combat in Oblivion and Skyrim. Combat just boils down to "use weapon on object" as many times as possible until it dies. At least in Morrowind, there was some drama with each attack, wondering if I'd actually land the blow, as well as managing my Stamina to make sure I still can land a blow. Then maxing my stats as a meta-game was entertaining too.

 

[Lightknight]

I enjoy the TES combat. So I don't know what to tell you or what else you think would be better. If I hold up my shield while facing the attacking weapon, I block it. If I strike the enemy, I hit them.

I imagine that some day in the future you can get accurate texture responses. So if you hit bare skin it slices and damages that limb/area. But that's more a processing/physics limitation than something else.

So you're going to have to explain more specifically what else you'd want to see.

To answer the question in the OP, I do not like the combat in Oblivion and Skyrim. Combat just boils down to "use weapon on object" as many times as possible until it dies. At least in Morrowind, there was some drama with each attack, wondering if I'd actually land the blow, as well as managing my Stamina to make sure I still can land a blow. Then maxing my stats as a meta-game was entertaining too.

Wait, so you prefer the dice roll of Morrowind because you feel that adds drama? How is that not the exact same thing but plus N where N=randomized misses?

Is't real life combat also "use weapon on object" as many times as necessary? You make it sound like that's a bad thing but I'm pretty sure most of us require one bullet in the head for example. It certainly isn't one bullet in the head unless they roll ones, at which point it takes two...

 

[Treeberry]

You know what? Dark Souls sucks. It's not the way I play it, it's just clunky and out-dated. The combat barely changes and you have to grind to get forward. Why do people like this AWFUL game?

Pokemon? PAH. There's no variety. Everything is given to you on a plate.

Harvest Moon? Barely any crop varieties and we're not even forced to use crop rotation. We have to farm like a three year old with a spoon.

And don't get me started on how unrealistic the police, military and diplomatic procedures are in Mass Effect.

Spoiler

I kid.

 

[Evonisia]

I didn't really mind archery and spellcasting in Oblivion. Sure they were very simple and the aiming is far too predictable but yeah, I found it enjoyable. Using commands on the PC version to get Mehrune's Dagon effect is always good fun, too. Oblivion's terrible levelling curve makes archery awkward to do though unless you put your stats right (running especially).

I think I enjoyed Skyrim's spellcasting (barely) just for the animation, it looks like you're just Sith Lording your way through everything until it's plastered against the wall.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Skyrim's combat is pretty good. It's just shy of high-quality First Person melee combat like Chivalry; medieval warfare and Pirates Vikings and Knights 2. At least with a shield and 1 hander, people above me are saying 2-handed weapons look weird but I never use them.

Oblivion's combat was a little dated granted. The ranged combat was friggin awful. The bowstrings would have to be made of sock fabric to shoot arrows that moved that slow and you can't do anything with spell projectiles that move at the speed of smell. The melee was relatively solid though. It wasn't amazing, but certainly functional in all aspects.

Holy crap! Did you just mention a comparison??? That's not how the internet works! You have to complain about things as if they existed in a vacuum and only your opinion matters! (Sorry I was having a sarcasm)

I keep hearing "TES combat sucks" but nobody ever compares it to another first person melee game to give their posts any actual context. Thank you very much for being (quite possibly) the first.

OT: I find that if you increase the difficulty in TES games you have to be more strategic with your movements. The one complaint I hate the most though is that "there's no dodge button". So... move? It's not that hard. Just because it doesn't hold your hand and put a big red ring so that you know that a Giant has an area of effect attack doesn't make it "bad". That's actually one of my favourite things about TES; paying attention pays off.

 

[Sande45]

It's bad because player skill has very little to do with it. It's your gear and skill levels vs your enemies' gear and skill levels. If you could win a melee fight when the enemy is way more powerful just by pure personal skill, it might feel good and rewarding. I really liked Oblivion, but since then I've been introduced to games like Demon's Souls, Chivalry, and Mount and Blade, so Skyrim felt really lackluster. I have no plans to buy another TES before they make the combat decent.

 

[Qvar]

OT: I find that if you increase the difficulty in TES games you have to be more strategic with your movements. The one complaint I hate the most though is that "there's no dodge button". So... move? It's not that hard. Just because it doesn't hold your hand and put a big red ring so that you know that a Giant has an area of effect attack doesn't make it "bad". That's actually one of my favourite things about TES; paying attention pays off.

Look at what will happen if you try to dodge an enemy attack at Skyrim: The will keep doing the attack animation with their upper body, while the lower part of their body follows you like nothing is happening. Just like you'll do if you move while attacking.

Meanwhile, at your reviled Dark Souls, if you (or an enemy) attacks, the full body commits to the maneuver, just like it should be.

On the other hand, as MHR pointed out, Skyrim lacks the proper Chivalry mechanics, lacks actual different movements (regular attack vs power attack doesn't count) to overcome the enemy defense, lacks actual shield-block (hold click, congrats you blocked) mechanic, lacks any feint mechanic... It's sad but Chivalry will spoil any joy out of other game's melee combat forever.

 

[Lightknight]

It's bad because player skill has very little to do with it. It's your gear and skill levels vs your enemies' gear and skill levels. If you could win a melee fight when the enemy is way more powerful just by pure personal skill, it might feel good and rewarding. I really liked Oblivion, but since then I've been introduced to games like Demon's Souls, Chivalry, and Mount and Blade, so Skyrim felt really lackluster. I have no plans to buy another TES before they make the combat decent.

That's right, it's almost as if this is some kind of role playing game in which you level up and your levels mean things about the way you fare in the world around you.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Look at what will happen if you try to dodge an enemy attack at Skyrim: The will keep doing the attack animation with their upper body, while the lower part of their body follows you like nothing is happening. Just like you'll do if you move while attacking.

Meanwhile, at your reviled Dark Souls, if you (or an enemy) attacks, the full body commits to the maneuver, just like it should be.

On the other hand, as MHR pointed out, Skyrim lacks the proper Chivalry mechanics, lacks actual different movements (regular attack vs power attack doesn't count) to overcome the enemy defense, lacks actual shield-block (hold click, congrats you blocked) mechanic, lacks any feint mechanic... It's sad but Chivalry will spoil any joy out of other game's melee combat forever.

What version of Skyrim are you playing? On the Xbox version, when an enemy attacks with a weapon, they follow through and you get a free swipe at their side or back if you're quick enough. Skyrim also has different attacks depending on which direction you're moving when you swing. I know most people ignore that, but it's still there.

Off-topic: Captcha, I ignore most advertising, how the fuck should I know what Montana's has on special?

 

[Qvar]

What version of Skyrim are you playing? On the Xbox version, when an enemy attacks with a weapon, they follow through and you get a free swipe at their side or back if you're quick enough. Skyrim also has different attacks depending on which direction you're moving when you swing. I know most people ignore that, but it's still there.

Off-topic: Captcha, I ignore most advertising, how the fuck should I know what Montana's has on special?

I'll have to check later, maybe I'm getting too old.

 

[DementedSheep]

Skyrim's combat is pretty good. It's just shy of high-quality First Person melee combat like Chivalry; medieval warfare and Pirates Vikings and Knights 2. At least with a shield and 1 hander, people above me are saying 2-handed weapons look weird but I never use them.

Oblivion's combat was a little dated granted. The ranged combat was friggin awful. The bowstrings would have to be made of sock fabric to shoot arrows that moved that slow and you can't do anything with spell projectiles that move at the speed of smell. The melee was relatively solid though. It wasn't amazing, but certainly functional in all aspects.

Holy crap! Did you just mention a comparison??? That's not how the internet works! You have to complain about things as if they existed in a vacuum and only your opinion matters! (Sorry I was having a sarcasm)

I keep hearing "TES combat sucks" but nobody ever compares it to another first person melee game to give their posts any actual context. Thank you very much for being (quite possibly) the first.

OT: I find that if you increase the difficulty in TES games you have to be more strategic with your movements. The one complaint I hate the most though is that "there's no dodge button". So... move? It's not that hard. Just because it doesn't hold your hand and put a big red ring so that you know that a Giant has an area of effect attack doesn't make it "bad". That's actually one of my favourite things about TES; paying attention pays off.

Yeah I don't get when people talk like standing their wailing on your enemies your only choice. Its not a great system but you can block, you can stagger enemies, you can move out of the way of their attacks, you can disarm (though that is not reliable) and in skyrim they clearly expect you to be using shouts as well. I think it could use some rebalancing with enemies having higher damage so migrating hits is more important since turning the difficulty up also ups their HP which can make fights a slog but it isn't that bad a base.

 

[MerlinCross]

For me it gets the job done.

Seriously I feel like all first person games with melee combat is "keep clicking till it's dead". Skyrim's isn't good at melee but it's not the worst either.

 

[loc978]

The answer for me is mods... while nothing could save the train wreck of game systems that was Oblivion, Skyrim with Dance of Death, Duel Combat Realism, and Dragon Combat Overhaul goes from a fun exploration game with boring combat to one with fun, challenging combat... especially if you restrict the use of potions to out of melee combat and behind cover for a few seconds... and only one at a time. Basically, long enough for the "eating food" animation to play.

 

[deadish]

So I've been wondering how do people play this stuff so much? don't get me wrong I love killing dragons and monsters and exploring as much as the next guy BUT the thing that just keeps me away from playing is how AWFULLY bad the combat is, I mean hitting things doesn't feel right, there's no variety in combat, specially melee combat, you just hit your target like a 3 year old with a stick.

I'm not asking for super deep combat but COME ON, it's just awful, the movements look unnatural.

So what keeps you playing for so long?

This is why I never got into it.

Played Morrowind,
- combat was just spamming attacks until the mob (or I) drop dead ... next to zero tactics (coming from WoW with CCs of all sorts, spells playing off one another, this was a bad joke)
- crafting was a joke, there is no "system" whatsoever, this plant heals you, this plant poisons you, add them together ... a potion that heals and poisons you. You serious? That's the limit of the interaction between components. There is zero "depth".

I walked around, took in the view, then uninstalled.

 

[SecondPrize]

The same reason they're all filled with bugs and have the most wooden and creepy npcs possible. It's because people keep buying the games regardless.

 

[lemby117]

They should make it like chivalry, t'would be sweet

 

[Black Reaper]

I know right?, you just click at stuff until it dies, there is no weight behind your swings and most of the bosses are just hp sponges
You can make the combat better with some mods, but its still kinda bad

What makes Skyrim for me is the mods, i don't really know how to describe it, but they simply make the game better

 

[Rastrelly]

TES was never popular because of combat. Same applies to any good RPG.

PS Best combat was in Morrowind. It perfectly displayed character progression as a fighter. TES IV and V broken this part.

 

[Signa]

I enjoy the TES combat. So I don't know what to tell you or what else you think would be better. If I hold up my shield while facing the attacking weapon, I block it. If I strike the enemy, I hit them.

I imagine that some day in the future you can get accurate texture responses. So if you hit bare skin it slices and damages that limb/area. But that's more a processing/physics limitation than something else.

So you're going to have to explain more specifically what else you'd want to see.

To answer the question in the OP, I do not like the combat in Oblivion and Skyrim. Combat just boils down to "use weapon on object" as many times as possible until it dies. At least in Morrowind, there was some drama with each attack, wondering if I'd actually land the blow, as well as managing my Stamina to make sure I still can land a blow. Then maxing my stats as a meta-game was entertaining too.

Wait, so you prefer the dice roll of Morrowind because you feel that adds drama? How is that not the exact same thing but plus N where N=randomized misses?

Is't real life combat also "use weapon on object" as many times as necessary? You make it sound like that's a bad thing but I'm pretty sure most of us require one bullet in the head for example. It certainly isn't one bullet in the head unless they roll ones, at which point it takes two...

Because in Oblivion, it didn't matter what my foe was doing, or what weapon he was holding, or anything. It was click-click-click-click until he died. Sometimes I'd have to wait an extra second if he blocked, and occasionally, I'd block too, but the higher the level I got, the more the combat was just a filler. I didn't need to block after a while, because it was faster to just button mash.

Morrowind has the tactics I listed above. I liked going into battle knowing that the weapon I had might not do the job, but if I was victorious, I'd be better with the weapon in the future, thus character progression. There was a lot more to take into account to gauge if "N where N=randomized misses" was a good risk or not. The only time I made those gauges in Oblivion was when I thought I was still playing with Morrowind's mechanics. Morrowind perfected the action-RPG while Oblivion was an action game with RPG elements.