Why is the TV landscape so boring?

[Queen Michael]

Budget. It's all about the money. That's the biggest weakness of TV and movies. In novels, you just write what you want and that's it. Imagine if Tolkien had needed to cut down the size of the battle at Helm's Deep because he couldn't afford to write that there were 10,000 orcs.

 

[Catnip1024]

Space operas and the like are hard because you want every episode to feel like something has happened, which works well with crime type programmes but less well with slow moving political plays, followed by intense bursts of action. And given that its a niche audience, it's more likely to end up on Netflix or Amazon Prime these days, where it can recover money over a longer period.

Regarding special effects and the budget, yeah, you are all probably right, but it never used to be the case - Red Dwarf was done on a shoe-string budget, Star Wars and Star Trek were also fairly cheap effects wise too. People just don't like cardboard cutouts any more. We spend millions crafting accurate computer models... of blue humans. Way to use your imagination, TV people.

 

[Cowabungaa]

The majority of cable TV has never been good. Like, ever. Be happy that we live in an era in which we can simply pick out the stuff we like and get that on demand. I doubt I'll ever get cable, even digital.

And like another poster said, we honestly live in a great era for the stuff that is good. From the cartoon Renaissance to the rise of extremely high quality drama to way higher attention to aesthetics. There's actually quite a few high-budget shows out there that actually make good use of their high production values.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Its called Cartoon Network. Steven Universe, Adventure Time, and Rick and Morty are all there, and not lacking in creativity.

As in old school cartoon network 90s kid that grew up with Dexter's Lab, Powerpuff Girls, Samurai Jack, Ed, Edd, n Eddy.

I hiss at those shows:

Why? They're very similar in quality and style(and the new wave, with some exceptions of course, is even better in some regards). It's basicly a renaissance of good ol' CN shows after dung ages of the 00's.

TL;DR version:

The 2000s were anything but dark time, because the early years were very very good but the other half of the decade was mediocrity with only a handful of decent/watchable shows (The first Total Drama series) and continuing series that has not lost its steam (Ben 10, Avatar)



Long Version





First of all, HEY!!!

Only the very late 2000s because the rest of the decade gave us good shows:

Samurai Jack, Billy and Mandy, Justice League, Codename: Kids Next Door , Teen Titans, Duck Dodgers , Star Wars Clone Wars 2003, Megas fuckin XLR, Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends, and yes the first 3 Ben 10 shows also another underrated one in the form of Robot Boy.

And lets not forget Adult Swim with shows like: The Boondocks, Morel Orel, Venture Bros., Early Robot Chicken (I say to me Robot Chicken stopped being funny after the 2nd Star Wars special) and this is more imo but I really like Metalocalypse.


Secondly lets go beyond Cartoon Network and add Nick and Disney to the equation:

TMNT 2003 series, Kim Possible, Legend of Tarzan, Fairly Odd Parents, Chalkzone (underratted), Jimmy Neutron, My Life as a Teenage Robot, DANNY FUCKING PHANTOM, and AVATAR THE LAST FUCKING AIRBENDER!!!

I am just getting tired that the 2000s for cartoons and animation is treated as this dark bleak era despite many examples of good cartoons.


As to where did the decline start imo these list of cartoons began the very decline of quality in these Cartoons:

Cartoon Network: Camp Lazlow (The show was boring), Juniper Lee (it could not even compete with shows like Kim Possible) My Gym Partner's a Monkey and Squirrle Boy (Increadibly bland and uninspired cartoons)

Nickalodeon: Catscratch (Like Money and Squirrle Boy increadibly boring and bland) El Tigre (Nickalodeon's answer to Mucha Lucha so it felt rather uninspired) Back at the Barnyards (Zzzzzzz)

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The majority of cable TV has never been good. Like, ever. Be happy that we live in an era in which we can simply pick out the stuff we like and get that on demand. I doubt I'll ever get cable, even digital.

And like another poster said, we honestly live in a great era for the stuff that is good. From the cartoon Renaissance to the rise of extremely high quality drama to way higher attention to aesthetics. There's actually quite a few high-budget shows out there that actually make good use of their high production values.

If we are living in a Cartoon Renissance why did Sym Bionic Titan died

 

[Cowabungaa]

The majority of cable TV has never been good. Like, ever. Be happy that we live in an era in which we can simply pick out the stuff we like and get that on demand. I doubt I'll ever get cable, even digital.

And like another poster said, we honestly live in a great era for the stuff that is good. From the cartoon Renaissance to the rise of extremely high quality drama to way higher attention to aesthetics. There's actually quite a few high-budget shows out there that actually make good use of their high production values.

If we are living in a Cartoon Renissance why did Sym Bionic Titan died

No idea what that is, but after googling it I'm anything but interested even though the guy behind the Powerpuff Girls is behind it. The premisse is so very bland. I'm happy to see stuff like Over The Garden Wall and Steven Universe (no idea why you 'hiss at that') that seem to engage with certain themes in a very direct and open way. I'm very picky with my cartoons.

Mind you, the early 2000's still had a lot of good stuff. We had about 5-ish years of relative bleh-ness with only a few good nuggets during which Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network suddenly invested in live-action stuff. But after that I feel like cartoons took the good things from the previous years and kickstarted things to reach new heights. The good stuff isn't no longer niche (because seriously, rarely anyone has heard of Morel Orel, sadly) but is popular as well. And that's just fueling more good work.

But still, when I look at even the 2000's I still see a lot of... Think of an 11 year-old boy shouting "Awesome!" That's what carried most of the shows even back then, the clich?s that come with that even if those clich?s are relatively well worked out. Signs of change where there, but only signs as of yet. And it's that seems to be changing the last few years.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

What are you guys talking about?

TV is in its golden age, it's the best it's ever been. With all the great quality cable shows and streaming shows like Netflix's DareDevil, Jessica Jones, Stranger Things, etc. to Amazon's The Man in the High Castle there's so many good shows to watch. Now, network TV is pretty bad, there's very few network shows I watch. So much talent from writers to actors have moved to TV, there's not many movies I even feel are worth the time to watch anymore when I can watch at least 3 episodes of a great show with characters I'm already attached to vs a movie that'll probably only be OK. I can barely even name many TV shows from say before 2000 that were legitimately really good shows. And, now you can make a high quality niche show that can stay afloat because ratings aren't that important anymore; if Firefly came out now originally (on cable or streaming service), it wouldn't have gotten canceled.

And now off to watch last night's Mr. Robot...

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The majority of cable TV has never been good. Like, ever. Be happy that we live in an era in which we can simply pick out the stuff we like and get that on demand. I doubt I'll ever get cable, even digital.

And like another poster said, we honestly live in a great era for the stuff that is good. From the cartoon Renaissance to the rise of extremely high quality drama to way higher attention to aesthetics. There's actually quite a few high-budget shows out there that actually make good use of their high production values.

If we are living in a Cartoon Renissance why did Sym Bionic Titan died

No idea what that is, but after googling it I'm anything but interested even though the guy behind the Powerpuff Girls is behind it. The premisse is so very bland. I'm happy to see stuff like Over The Garden Wall and Steven Universe (no idea why you 'hiss at that') that seem to engage with certain themes in a very direct and open way. I'm very picky with my cartoons.

Mind you, the early 2000's still had a lot of good stuff. We had about 5-ish years of relative bleh-ness with only a few good nuggets during which Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network suddenly invested in live-action stuff. But after that I feel like cartoons took the good things from the previous years and kickstarted things to reach new heights. The good stuff isn't no longer niche (because seriously, rarely anyone has heard of Morel Orel, sadly) but is popular as well. And that's just fueling more good work.

First off how many Action Cartoons are there? With an overarcing plot and charcaters and villains that grow. I was invested in Octus, Princess Illana, and Lance (especially Lance and his backstory that is clearly setup to something more bigger) and I wanted the villain to pay dearly because he is the worst kind of villain, one that is actually competant and got to where he is through betrayal and scumbaggery.

That is all I want, I hate these overly pretentious and experimental shows like Steven Universe

 

[Cowabungaa]

First off how many Action Cartoons are there? With an overarcing plot and charcaters and villains that grow. I was invested in Octus, Princess Illana, and Lance (especially Lance and his backstory that is clearly setup to something more bigger) and I wanted the villain to pay dearly because he is the worst kind of villain, one that is actually competant and got to where he is through betrayal and scumbaggery.

That is all I want, I hate these overly pretentious and experimental shows like Steven Universe

It seems that I was a little too late with my edit, but to reiterate. When I look back at the 2000's I see a lot of... Think of an 11 year-old boy shouting "Awesome!" That's what carried most of the shows even back then, the clich?s that come with that even if those clich?s are relatively well worked out. All that action cartoon stuff for the same old demographic using the same old tropes.

And yeah that's changing. There aren't that many clich? action cartoons any more, that's true. And I'm very very glad for that. The world of cartoons is opening up and is looking past young boys who shout "Awesome!" It's daring to do new things, it's daring to go further, to reach new people and explore new themes.

I can't see what's wrong with that. Why are shows like Steven Universe 'pretentious'? Because they dare to expand their demographic and to ditch the old tropes? What's wrong with experimentation, with expanding the creative horizons? What's wrong with growing as a medium? It seems that what you want is for cartoons to stay in the past. I have no idea why you'd want that. Maybe you're still part of that old demographic.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

First off how many Action Cartoons are there? With an overarcing plot and charcaters and villains that grow. I was invested in Octus, Princess Illana, and Lance (especially Lance and his backstory that is clearly setup to something more bigger) and I wanted the villain to pay dearly because he is the worst kind of villain, one that is actually competant and got to where he is through betrayal and scumbaggery.

That is all I want, I hate these overly pretentious and experimental shows like Steven Universe

It seems that I was a little too late with my edit, but to reiterate. When I look back at the 2000's I see a lot of... Think of an 11 year-old boy shouting "Awesome!" That's what carried most of the shows even back then, the clich?s that come with that even if those clich?s are relatively well worked out. All that action cartoon stuff for the same old demographic using the same old tropes.

And yeah that's changing. There aren't that many clich? action cartoons any more, that's true. And I'm very very glad for that. The world of cartoons is opening up and is looking past young boys who shout "Awesome!" It's daring to do new things, it's daring to go further, to reach new people and explore new themes.

I can't see what's wrong with that. Why are shows like Steven Universe 'pretentious'? Because they dare to expand their demographic and to ditch the old tropes? What's wrong with experimentation, with expanding the creative horizons? What's wrong with growing as a medium? It seems that what you want is for cartoons to stay in the past. I have no idea why you'd want that.

My idea of expanding horizens is for more "Adult" animation and I don't mean adult as in just "Fucks, and Guts, and tits for the sake of it" or just South Park/Family Guy clones.

Sometimes I wish Game of Thrones was an animated series for example.

And say what you will about Game of Thrones at least that show has not completely squandard its genuine adult moments like certain charcaters relationships with each other.

 

[ROTTL]

Mass market products are boring because they're aimed at the average member of that market, who is dull-witted and boring.

 

[Cowabungaa]

My idea of expanding horizens is for more "Adult" animation and I don't mean adult as in just "Fucks, and Guts, and tits for the sake of it" or just South Park/Family Guy clones.

That's but one part of the cartoon landscape. I don't see why that excludes cartoons aimed at younger people evolving as well.

And mind you, adult animation has been good for years. Lest we forget, as mentioned before, Morel Orell, Sealab 2021, all that good stuff. Adult Swim has almost always been excellent. But yes I'd like to see more evolution in that as well. The West has yet to make a cartoon akin to Japan's Monster for instance. I don't even watch that much anime but I still acknowledge that anime has that considerable edge over Western animation. Sure shows like Morel Orell and Rick & Morty often engage with very heavy and serious themes, but something subdued and serious on TV has yet to arise. Maybe the recent succes of adult animated movies (notably Anomalisa) will help with that in the near future.

But does that exclude cartoons for younger audiences advancing? Of course not. I still don't see what's wrong with that. If anything kids deserve a varied and ever-evolving landscape of animation even more than adults. They're the ones still growing up, finding their way in the world, evolving their identities. They need that variation of viewpoints and themes.

 

[ROTTL]

My idea of expanding horizens is for more "Adult" animation and I don't mean adult as in just "Fucks, and Guts, and tits for the sake of it" or just South Park/Family Guy clones.

That's but one part of the cartoon landscape. I don't see why that excludes cartoons aimed at younger people evolving as well.

And mind you, adult animation has been good for years. Lest we forget, as mentioned before, Morel Orell, Sealab 2021, all that good stuff. Adult Swim has almost always been excellent. But yes I'd like to see more evolution in that as well. The West has yet to make a cartoon akin to Japan's Monster for instance. I don't even watch that much anime but I still acknowledge that anime has that considerable edge over Western animation. Sure shows like Morel Orell and Rick & Morty often engage with very heavy and serious themes, but something subdued and serious on TV has yet to arise. Maybe the recent succes of adult animated movies (notably Anomalisa) will help with that in the near future.

But does that exclude cartoons for younger audiences advancing? Of course not. I still don't see what's wrong with that.

I've watched a lot of anime. A LOT. I'd say that Rick and Morty compares favorably to most of it, and sits up there with cherished pieces like FLCL. The quality and depth of the animation, the humor, the pathos...

 

[Cowabungaa]

I've watched a lot of anime. A LOT. I'd say that Rick and Morty compares favorably to most of it, and sits up there with cherished pieces like FLCL. The quality and depth of the animation, the humor, the pathos...

I reckon it does, but you nail it right on the head; it's still comedy. Despite incredibly bleak and heavy themes that are handled very well (Auto Erotic Assimilation anyone?) it's still an absurdist comedy. Where are the mature Western animated shows that aren't comedy? Where's our Monster? Where's our Texhnolyze? We still haven't figured that out it seems, and that's something I really want to see.

 

[Saetha]

Nickalodeon: Catscratch (Like Money and Squirrle Boy increadibly boring and bland) El Tigre (Nickalodeon's answer to Mucha Lucha so it felt rather uninspired) Back at the Barnyards (Zzzzzzz)

Listen dude, I agree with you that the 2000s had some neat stuff. And I agree with you that most of the shows you have listed here aren't that great. But I will FIGHT YOU if you think El Tigre was bad. Strap on yer gloves and put up them dukes.

Also - how's SU pretentious?

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

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Well, i assumed we were speaking only about CN shows, since those were the ones you listed in your original post. I can't really say much about Nickelodeon or Disney Channel cartoons, since i didn't have those stations back in the day(barring Avatar, which was really good).
I stand corrected about early 00s CN, the station didn't completely went to shitter back then yet. The second half of that decade, though? Yeah, Ben10 was decent for what it was, though not entirely my cup of tea. But other shows? the concept of TDI was awful, i agree with your stance on Camp Lazlo, Chowder started interestingly but then devolved into "randum" mess and Flapjack was hit/miss kind of show. And the less is told about those live-action shows(on CARTOON Network) the better.
CN only have begun to reminisce it's glory days after people like JG Quintel or Pendleton Ward got their own shows.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Nickalodeon: Catscratch (Like Money and Squirrle Boy increadibly boring and bland) El Tigre (Nickalodeon's answer to Mucha Lucha so it felt rather uninspired) Back at the Barnyards (Zzzzzzz)

Listen dude, I agree with you that the 2000s had some neat stuff. And I agree with you that most of the shows you have listed here aren't that great. But I will FIGHT YOU if you think El Tigre was bad. Strap on yer gloves and put up them dukes.

Also - how's SU pretentious?

The fanbase certainly makes it pretentious. I mean they went as far as threatening a deviantart artist for drawing a fat chacrater skinny and the artist contemplated suicide.