Why is the Wii U not succeeding?

[QUINTIX]

Before I read through the thread: the choice of paired singles per thread instead of full 4-way SIMD [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIMD]s, not getting a more up-to-date PowerPC core than the one they put in the Wii (just overclocking and copying it three times across the silicon), and using only a single 64-bit channel [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-channel_architecture] to connect to main memory are all asinine design decisions. Lateral application of withered technology is an excellent, though poorly worded, principle that has a huge risk of being dangerously misapplied, and Nintendo did just that with the WiiU's system architecture.

Edit: It is especially unfortunate because the graphics processor they choose: a tweaked mobile Radeon 4650, was an excellent choice. Though it is no where near in the same class as the Xbox One or the PS4, it is head and shoulders above the current gen of consoles and better than most iGPUs in laptops, which is plenty good enough [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/6069-Death-to-Good-Graphics], with ample clock headroom if a developer really wants it.

 

[Lightknight]

as for the topic at hand, the reason why the Wii U is not succeeding is due to the fact that there is not enough games, and they had poor marketing.

The really need to fix the marketing aspect. Hopefully they are working on it and we will see an ad on tv here and there around the holiday season.

I'd go with naming it Wii2. Frankly, I'd love to see them drop the tablet and thereby dropping the price of the console by $100 or so. Don't get me wrong, I see that it has value and such, I just don't think it needs to be a mandatory peripheral with how much it likely adds to the cost and how little I'd use it for the Nintendo games I'd want to play.

I however plan on getting one in the near future. 101 is shaping up to be an awesome game, and the extended trailer proved that.

Wait, you've been defending the WiiU nigh viciously all this time and you don't even have one yet? What consoles do you own?

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Like every Nintendo console, only reason to buy it is for Nintendo games only. There 3rd party stuff are shit. So when those Nintendo games are released then sales will go up.

Also, lightning doesn't strike twice. They should not expect Wii level sales. An from what i remember, the Wii sales were high, but people buying games on the Wii wasn't.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'd go with naming it Wii2. Frankly, I'd love to see them drop the tablet and thereby dropping the price of the console by $100 or so. Don't get me wrong, I see that it has value and such, I just don't think it needs to be a mandatory peripheral with how much it likely adds to the cost and how little I'd use it for the Nintendo games I'd want to play.

Wii2 would of worked perfectly fine. However the tablet is pretty nice and comfy to hold. At the least it would make a great menu screen. Especially for games that tend to suffer from really cluttered single screens.

Wait, you've been defending the WiiU nigh viciously all this time and you don't even have one yet? What consoles do you own?

You got me.
I said this in a thread long dead on the Escapist but I'm always really bad at getting home consoles on time (and by on time I mean less than 2 years). I yearned for a Gamecube for 2 years before finally being able to get one, and I yearned for a Wii for even longer before I got my hands on it.
I was however, was interested in getting a Wii U for a while now. I plan on trading in my Wii to give me some money, and then going ahead and purchasing one about around Christmas time.
I do, however have friends that have the Wii U, and often times my experience with it was great. Like I said- better marketing and a good line up of games and the thing is good to go.

Right now I currently own a DS lite, a 3DS, and a Wii.

 

[freedash22]

The question is self explanatory. I was just wondering why? Maybe a gamer with better knowledge can explain it to me? Is it from lack of games? Bad timing? Or what? Seems to be doing a Dreamcast...

Lack of support from gaming publishers mostly. Fewer and fewer games have been released for the Wii U and companies like EA seem to have dropped it from their radar:

http://www.geek.com/games/ea-not-supporting-wii-u-because-its-an-offline-experience-1561472/

Even developers like Bethesda seem to have withdrawn development:
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32155-bethesda-still-not-looking-at-wii-u

Square Enix has also withheld titles for the Wii U:
http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/177042-square-enix-explains-why-kh3-not-coming-wii-u.html

It's not that the Wii U is a bad console, it's just that there isn't enough market interest in it to justify development and with fewer games; that means less customers. Handheld gamers are just preoccupied with other consoles, mobile gaming and other factors that take away from the Wii U. Plus, in my opinion, handheld gamers just don't behave like hardcore gamers, i.e, when a new technology arrives, they grab it immediately. They were already preoccupied with the PS Vita or Mobile gaming so they just ignored it.

 

[Dragonbums]

The question is self explanatory. I was just wondering why? Maybe a gamer with better knowledge can explain it to me? Is it from lack of games? Bad timing? Or what? Seems to be doing a Dreamcast...

Lack of support from gaming publishers mostly. Fewer and fewer games have been released for the Wii U and companies like EA seem to have dropped it from their radar:

http://www.geek.com/games/ea-not-supporting-wii-u-because-its-an-offline-experience-1561472/

Even developers like Bethesda seem to have withdrawn development:
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32155-bethesda-still-not-looking-at-wii-u

Square Enix has also withheld titles for the Wii U:
http://forums.khinsider.com/kingdom-hearts-iii/177042-square-enix-explains-why-kh3-not-coming-wii-u.html

It's not that the Wii U is a bad console, it's just that there isn't enough market interest in it to justify development and with fewer games; that means less customers. Handheld gamers are just preoccupied with other consoles, mobile gaming and other factors that take away from the Wii U. Plus, in my opinion, handheld gamers just don't behave like hardcore gamers, i.e, when a new technology arrives, they grab it immediately. They were already preoccupied with the PS Vita or Mobile gaming so they just ignored it.

Even developers like Bethesda?

Dude, Bethesda hasn't made a serious game for Nintendo since the SNES/NES era. What they say about the company should hardly be newsworthy.

 

[Kittyhawk]

If you add all the comments made by devs across the Wii U's life cycle, you'll see how many of them are politely negative. Its a shame that Nintendo don't get the message.

On the contrary, there's no point in sugar coating it, Wii U isn't a bad console but a poorly conceived and mediocre marketing one. It was no doubt thrown together and rushed to market, when there was no demand for it and little game support. Nintendo in a post Wii state, could have coasted by on 3DS for a few years, then played their hand for another home console.

Unfortunately, they've blown their wad all over the brides panties before they have even taken them off. Wii U is a disaster that we've not seen since Virtual Boy, which digressing a little had great potential, but Nintendo's meddling turned what was a colour VR system into a red only VR mess. The rest is history.

But hey, doesn't matter. So long as Nintendo are getting rich off of it.

I bet Bethesda and many others would like to work with Nintendo again, but they are making it very difficult with their home consoles.

 

[Dragonbums]

If you add all the comments made by devs across the Wii U's life cycle, you'll see how many of them are politely negative. Its a shame that Nintendo don't get the message.

On the contrary, there's no point in sugar coating it, Wii U isn't a bad console but a poorly conceived and mediocre marketing one. It was no doubt thrown together and rushed to market, when there was no demand for it and little game support. Nintendo in a post Wii state, could have coasted by on 3DS for a few years, then played their hand for another home console.

Unfortunately, they've blown their wad all over the brides panties before they have even taken them off. Wii U is a disaster that we've not seen since Virtual Boy, which digressing a little had great potential, but Nintendo's meddling turned what was a colour VR system into a red only VR mess. The rest is history.

But hey, doesn't matter. So long as Nintendo are getting rich off of it.

I bet Bethesda and many others would like to work with Nintendo again, but they are making it very difficult with their home consoles.

Firstly...Bethesda never made games for Nintendo. That's like being surprised that Valve doesn't make games for Nintendo.

Secondly, the Wii U launch is hardly as bad as the Virtual Boy.
The Virtual Boy sold a total of 770 K units in it's entire lifetime, and had a whole lot more problems like inducing headaches, nausea, disorientation, etc.
The Wii U on the other hand has done phenomenally better than that. As of June 30th it has sold 3.61 million units.
That is hardly at the same level as the Virtual Boy.

Geez man.
If anything I would compare it to the Gamecube.

Also you really need to drop the harsh tone. It makes you look highly unreasonable. The bitterness right now is stifling. If Nintendo pisses you off that much...just don't buy things from them.

 

[Kittyhawk]

@Dragon

Firstly, Never said Bethesda made games for Nintendo. I know who makes what and works or not for who, thanks

Look again. I said WORK WITH, as is how its commonly worded if you are a dev/pub, making game to go on a particular company's system like Nintendo. For them its a working business relationship, so they say 'work with.' I used that term.

Secondly, never said anything about Wii U's launch, so please don't go comparing them. Perhaps you miss where I was going with the VB comment, which is that it was another Nintendo console that should have been much better than it was, but thanks to Nintendo it was worse and sold poorly. For what happened with the VB, go read the Argonaut article again (in short, its prototype was in color, not red). Short cuts don't always make things better especially console tech, to summarize that point. The whole reason why many devs/pubs currently dislike working with Nintendo consoles is because they should be better than they are, and next to other consoles become a burden on them and their game creating visions. Stop and think about that for a second. There was once a time when Nintendo were in this zone. If that was once the case, they should be that way consistently, like PC/Sony/MS/Apple. That's all I'm trying to say there.

As for my so called harsh tone, its my view, friend. That's just me, feel free to disagree. I'm not telling you how to conduct your posts or cursing your family, am I? Nope.

Nintendo being different to themselves in the past is debatable, but in my view, having also seen Nintendo from the 90's onwards there's not much change than their card shuffling of certain corporate figure heads. Their decisions seem a lot worse in places than many years back (looking more lost as the years have passed by), but while they are making money and good games (no matter how few and less varied to previous gens) other points become moot and supposedly not up for discussion.

 

[Dragonbums]

@Dragon

Firstly, Never said Bethesda made games for Nintendo. I know who makes what and works or not for who, thanks

Look again. I said WORK WITH, as is how its commonly worded if you are a dev/pub, making game to go on a particular company's system like Nintendo. For them its a working business relationship, so they say 'work with.' I used that term.

Secondly, never said anything about Wii U's launch, so please don't go comparing them. Perhaps you miss where I was going with the VB comment, which is that it was another Nintendo console that should have been much better than it was, but thanks to Nintendo it was worse and sold poorly. For what happened with the VB, go read the Argonaut article again. Short cuts don't always make things better especially console tech, to summarize that point. The whole reason why many devs/pubs currently dislike working with Nintendo consoles is because they should be better than they are, and next to other consoles become a burden on them and their game creating visions. Stop and think about that for a second. There was once a time when Nintendo were in this zone. If that was once the case, they should be that way consistently, like PC/Sony/MS/Apple. That's all I'm trying to say there.

As for my so called harsh tone, its my view, friend. That's just me, feel free to disagree. I'm not telling you how to conduct your posts or cursing your family, am I? Nope.

Nintendo being different to themselves in the past is debatable, but in my view, having also seen Nintendo from the 90's onwards there's not much change than their card shuffling of certain corporate figure heads. Their decisions seem a lot worse in places than many years back (looking more lost as the years have passed by), but while they are making money and good games (no matter how few and less varied to previous gens) other points become moot and supposedly no up for discussion.

Wii U is a disaster that we've not seen since Virtual Boy,

I'm pretty sure a lot of people who read that sentence would logically conclude that you are basically saying that the Wii U was just as bad as the Virtual Boy.
Sorry, but that is how you said it. Perhaps next time take the time to put your words togehter to be better understood.

I bet Bethesda and many others would like to work with Nintendo again, but they are making it very difficult with their home consoles.

Then what exactly are you stating here. From what I know, developing for the PS3 was very difficult for many publishers. Didn't stop them from making a ton of games for it. I can even extend that to the Wii U.
I hardly doubt there is anything "difficult" about making games for the Wii U. The most common reason they give for not developing for the thing is install base.
And to be frank, Bethesda should just stick to PC. Since the console versions of their games are always buggy as hell anyway.

The whole reason why many devs/pubs currently dislike working with Nintendo consoles is because they should be better than they are, and next to other consoles become a burden on them and their game creating visions.

Burden to their gaming visions?
This generation I have seen quite a few of my favorite franchises suck as all hell because of these "visions".
If gaming visions revolve around overblown CGI graphics, prettier looks over decent story/gameplay, with a gray/blue/brown palette to boot, then I think they can keep their "creative vision" on the other consoles. Unless you actually work on videogames you cannot really talk about how "hard" it is to make games for the Wii U. Numbers don't speak for a game.
The actual game does.
And considering devs the likes of Platnium are more than happy to make games for the Wii U and they are hardly as big as other studios I think it may be a lot more apathy for Nintendo then it's restrictions.

Their decisions seem a lot worse in places than many years back (looking more lost as the years have passed by),

Lost in what sense exactly?
Because if the launch of Xbone is anything to go by I would say Microsoft has gone off the path way more than Nintendo has.

 

[Lightknight]

I'd go with naming it Wii2. Frankly, I'd love to see them drop the tablet and thereby dropping the price of the console by $100 or so. Don't get me wrong, I see that it has value and such, I just don't think it needs to be a mandatory peripheral with how much it likely adds to the cost and how little I'd use it for the Nintendo games I'd want to play.

Wii2 would of worked perfectly fine. However the tablet is pretty nice and comfy to hold. At the least it would make a great menu screen. Especially for games that tend to suffer from really cluttered single screens.

Is it worth adding $100 or more dollars to the price tag and thereby alienating a non-trivial number of customers that went with the Wii because of its insanely competitive price point? What Nintendo doesn't realize is that they've made themselves the decoy of the decoy effect for the ps4.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/brain-games/videos/the-decoy-effect/

Don't forget, the standard version is already over $300 too. So you're seeing a lot less machine and media function being sold at nearly the price at the most powerful one. In doing so, Nintendo is literally marketing FOR Sony when looking at it from the well known physchological effect mentioned above.

Wait, you've been defending the WiiU nigh viciously all this time and you don't even have one yet? What consoles do you own?

You got me.
I said this in a thread long dead on the Escapist but I'm always really bad at getting home consoles on time (and by on time I mean less than 2 years). I yearned for a Gamecube for 2 years before finally being able to get one, and I yearned for a Wii for even longer before I got my hands on it.
I was however, was interested in getting a Wii U for a while now. I plan on trading in my Wii to give me some money, and then going ahead and purchasing one about around Christmas time.
I do, however have friends that have the Wii U, and often times my experience with it was great. Like I said- better marketing and a good line up of games and the thing is good to go.

Right now I currently own a DS lite, a 3DS, and a Wii.

Ok, at least you've played some with them and are willing to own up to not currently having one.

Are you at all concerned that the WiiU will be considered a failure in a couple years and be discontinued after you've put money into it? Perhaps to be replaced by another Nintendo console that you can no longer easily afford because the trade-in value of your WiiU has plummeted? You buying it and even loving it does not make it so in the market at large. I do have some hope for them making a come back if the lack of games really is the problem and if they can remedy it. I know that helped the PSP. Darned if I didn't have a year or two there that my psp was exclusively my traveling movie device and my DS was king of my handheld gaming time. Then the PSP churned out legit games more regularly and won me over. With my playstation+ account giving me free Vita games my wife is very happy with that side of things and hasn't touched her 3DS for some time now.

Also, have you considered going with a ps4? The difference between a WiiU standard and a PS4 is less than $100 in most places unless you find a decent preowned deal. I understand if you are loyal to Nintendo. People give ardent fans of companies a bad rap but if a company has been good to you then there's no reason a person shouldn't be loyal. I've been burned a few times by Nintendo but my experience with Sony has been excellent and my Microsoft experience has ok but I don't prefer their product as much (ever since the patch that filled their dashboard with ads I've been at odds with them as a company that would be willing to do that to customers who have already bought into the system). If you want to get the most for your buck then I would strongly consider it. Opening your horizon not only to Sony exclusives but also to the wider 3rd party market and the indie titles that Nintendo isn't cultivating. I'm not a salesman, I'm just trying to present the way I see it to see how you respond. I think the WiiU, as it stands, is a bad investment. It doesn't have 3rd party support, it doesn't cultivate indie games that I've greatly enjoyed recently, it doesn't play DVDs which I watch all the time, it is a much weaker machine with an expensive tablet that I could honestly do without to play the games I enjoy (actually, I really don't want games that use peripherals just to do it. Especially not with the titles I care about like Mario games or anything else). The biggest point for me now is how poorly it is doing. I certainly don't want to drop any amount of cash for something that's just going to be dropped.

 

[Dragonbums]

snipped for Escapist being dumb

The Basic Wii U model is only basically at $300.00 (for the US. I don't know about other countries)
It comes with the following:
-8GB of memory
-Gamepad
-Gamepad stylus
-Sensor bar
-HDMI cable
-AC adapters for both the console and the gamepad.

The deluxe version is priced at $350.00

-32 GB of memory
-Wii U gamepad
-Wii U stylus
-Sensor bar
-HDMI cable
-AC adapters for both the console and gamepad.
-Nintendo Land Video game
-Deluxe Digital Promotion that works by getting 10% points back for every purchase in the online store. Meaning a game costing $60.00 will give you $5.00 back in eshop credit.
-Wii U gamepad stand
-Wii U console stand
-Wii U gamepad cradle.

If not for the storage space, the digital deluxe promotion is more than worth the purchase for many people. Especially when many eshop games cost about $5.00 anyway.

Are you at all concerned that the WiiU will be considered a failure in a couple years and be discontinued after you've put money into it?

I'm not going to buy a console because it's the "winner" of whatever gen it's in. I'm going to buy a console that promises me to give me the games I love the most with the best experience.
You are thinking far too ahead in the future.
We don't know what will happen to the Wii U even 1 year from now. Things can drastically change for the better for all we know.
Will it be nice on my part? Yeah sure.
However I don't really rate a console based on which place the machine lands on.

Perhaps to be replaced by another Nintendo console that you can no longer easily afford because the trade-in value of your WiiU has plummeted?

Considering the fact that I'm always late to the home console party anyway, this doesn't bother me as much. I also may or may not have a problem with trading ANY home console in. When my parents forced me to give away my PS2 (bless that thing *sniff*) I was in a rotten mood for days.
Even know I'm battling over whether or not to trade in my Wii. I know I'm going to miss it.

Also, have you considered going with a ps4? The difference between a WiiU standard and a PS4 is less than $100 in most places unless you find a decent preowned deal. I understand if you are loyal to Nintendo. People give ardent fans of companies a bad rap but if a company has been good to you then there's no reason a person shouldn't be loyal. I've been burned a few times by Nintendo but my experience with Sony has been excellent and my Microsoft experience has ok but I don't prefer their product as much

I have planned on getting a PS4 at some point. Mainly because of Kingdom Hearts and just a tiny bit of Final Fantasy. I couldn't give any real two shits for the PS3 because a lot of my favorite franchises like Spyro and Crash Bandicoot ended. And a good amount of games that interested me I could simply get on my laptop. However I am a little miffed at the fact that everyone now has pay for the online aspect of the games they buy.
Everytime I think about it, it turns me off to the console. I know there are benefits to paying but...I like knowing that the game I payed for has everything in it. Including mulitplayer. Just knowing that I can't have it if I don't pony up more money annoys me. Yeah, that's it. It's a big annoyance more than a complete turn off.

Up even to today I have always enjoyed Nintendo and their products.
Nintendo still has a place in the console department.
For one, they still largely cater to children, and it' nice to see how happy all the kids in my family are when they play Mario.
Secondly, their consoles can make for great party entertainment.
At least I can ask my friends to join in on the game I'm playing. As opposed to having one person play and everyone else watch. Kind of makes me a bit sad...and hoggy.

I have played all of the systems at least once.

PS3 is a nice experience. Seeing as how I've owned a console from them previously.(and Nino No Kuni is such an adorable game.)

Xbox 360 is great too. Of course it is the most unfamiliar to me...and those stupid ads.

But I always feel right at home with a Nintendo console. I like the light hearted stuff. I really do.

I think the WiiU, as it stands, is a bad investment. It doesn't have 3rd party support, it doesn't cultivate indie games that I've greatly enjoyed recently, it doesn't play DVDs which I watch all the time, it is a much weaker machine with an expensive tablet that I could honestly do without to play the games I enjoy

Nintendo has long since had bad third party support. However I think the saying goes- "Nintendo fans don't buy their hardware for third party games" that is not to say it isn't appreciated. However the third party games that are INDEED on the system are really great.

Nintendo has actually been making a lot of effort in the indie scene lately. Pencil Test studios have been contacted by Nintendo personally to make their indie game title put on the Wii U if it made $950k on their Kickstarter. Not only did they make the money to so much as fund the game (which was $900k) they actually managed to quickly raise their stretch fund goals in a matter of two days for the Wii U development goal. That's just one example. I think the indie scene will thrive soon on the Wii U and 3DS.

I hardly watch DVDs anyway, so this hardly affects me. Then again, after the experiencing how completely trashy my PS2 was at playing DVD's I'm not exactly seeing that feature as a win or lose kind of deal for me. Also most people have a separate DVD box anyway so I don't think they will really think about it, but you know, it's all about preference.

Nintendo machines are always weaker than their competitors. I think the exception was the Gamecube? Again, doesn't really bother me.
As of right now the game industry could use some limitations. What with the overblown budgets and sub par games that plagued this generation (and even caused some studios to shut down.)

I like trying something new with games. Then again I'm a very creatively inclined person. Not that I have a problem with people who are satisfied with playing games the old fashioned way; but you can at least appreciate that at least one company offers a new way to play no?

I certainly don't want to drop any amount of cash for something that's just going to be dropped.

We still have no clue if Nintendo is going to drop the console or not. Again, let's not start stating things as total fact.
The whole situation can easily turn around.
(so let's get to making tv ads for the thing Nintendo.)
Am I saying to drop cash on it?
No.
But let's not count this thing out.

 

[ThePuzzldPirate]

The biggest point for me now is how poorly it is doing. I certainly don't want to drop any amount of cash for something that's just going to be dropped.

How poorly it is doing now you mean, it actually had enough traction to beat ps3 to one million in japan. Nintendo won't drop this console, it isn't cause their dumb(it's actually smart business,) they need to bounce out the negative this console is bringing to their bank account. It wouldn't be hard to relaunch this console in the fall either before the console release or at least before Christmas.

Now that Nintendo is finally in the start of the constant releases, I wouldn't be surprised by them getting heavy with marketing now that they actually have something to market. People are saying price deduction but I think it would be more business savy to take a hit on a game than the console. A bundle with New Mario U or even the new one would sweeten the deal and attract the less than internet savvy.

 

[direkiller]

My only argument against that is the same others will make

I think it is save to say your wrong as one, you don't have proof of it and two it goes against Nintendo's track record of them rarely(if at all) BullShotting.

How can you, in all honesty, tell me that is not competing with PCs? They're not just competing on multiplat titles, they're now overlapping on functionality and architecture.

Also, I think this GIF is rather nice for anyone who still argues the Wii U is outdated in terms of tech:

The PS4 and Xbone can do several times better ...

There is no working around the Wii U's anemic amount of RAM.

I'm sorry, are you not seeing what I'm seeing right there? It looks like a game and probably plays like one too. It seems developers have found a way too work around/with it.

as that's from the E3 trailer it's not hard to tell what they did
here is a hint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqnAbRpyqfI
Im holding off judgment, but I have a strong feeling the final product will be missing more then 3d models for those bushes/trees, and a texture pop-in on a rock.

I highly doubt it.
Unlike the rest of the game industry that likes to wow people with too big for reality CGI

the game play footage amounts to about 30 seconds in the trailer , Compared to Xenoblade chronicles E3 showing it's almost nothing.

The amount of CGI to game play tells me it was a mock up, which makes me worried because that was basically a tank/robot driving around on open land with 2d popup trees and a rock with a bitmap behind it,... and the bitmap was still loading.

 

[Kittyhawk]

@Dragon

PS3 has been tricky for devs, sure, but not impossible or so difficult that they had to downgrade aspects of a game so much to suit or cancel support for it entirely. PS3 was a strong console from launch day, just like 360. Its down to Sony's custom bs that made stuff tricky, a problem they are amending with PS4 (hence why more devs are pumped for PS4 moving to simpler x86). By comparison Wii U limits hold it back. Yes, it has a nice GPU but beyond that its not much of an improvement so devs feel lost again. Its close to a 360 yes, but still lacks a hard drive as standard that devs can rely on/work with. Its disc media isn't even dvd, but proprietary Nintendo stuff (see PS Vita as why proprietary is such a problem) so that presents more problems. Then they need the man power to work on it. Wii U is still using Power PC which next gen consoles are moving away from, while 360 and PS3 they've worked on for years, knowing them better. Its beguiling that Nintendo with all their money and connections, couldn't have foreseen such a move, and counter acted with Wii U or held it off for better upgrades.

Guess they didn't want to spend money again.

Someone else above mentioned Wii U indie support. Its really funny to see such a u-turn, for not so long ago Nintendo wouldn't touch indies/small devs with a stick. People like Notch or Jon Blow, Nintendo used to turn away, claiming if you didn't have an office or had done a game before, they'd not want to do business with you. This was one piece of pathetic Nintendo thinking I was glad to see go. Good games can come from anywhere, not just from established studios. By the end of Wii U's life I hope Nintendo will be grateful for their support, displaying that.

Lastly, some may think I'm anti Nintendo (just a harsh critic, because soft doesn't work). Might seem so in my posts, but I grew up on Nintendo games and consoles amongst PC and other consoles you know. I know Nintendo can be better than they are. Games are what I'm about. All myself and some want is an even playing field across formats. The other systems are there, but we are still waiting for Nintendo to join us, so one day we can ignore the box labels and just play and enjoy games on each, with their own perks.

Oh yeah, few games use CGi these days, friend. Most games can do stuff in engine.

This has been fun conversing.

 

[Dragonbums]

First off, I would appreciate it if you hit the reply button. That way I can actually know when you reply to me.

PS3 has been tricky for devs, sure, but not impossible or so difficult that they had to downgrade aspects of a game so much to suit or cancel support for it entirely.

Many game devs have stated that the PS3 was often a nightmare to develop on. The only reason why the Wii didn't get anything had more to do with space than hardware architecture.

By comparison Wii U limits hold it back. Yes, it has a nice GPU but beyond that its not much of an improvement so devs feel lost again. Its close to a 360 yes, but still lacks a hard drive as standard that devs can rely on/work with. Its disc media isn't even dvd, but proprietary Nintendo stuff (see PS Vita as why proprietary is such a problem) so that presents more problems.

Again, how do you know the Wii U is holding game devs back? Especially when most didn't even bother to do anything on the system in the first place?
It's close to the 360? That's a load of garbage. It's better than the 360 and the PS3. If anything they have more freedom making games for the Wii U currently than two consoles that aren't even on the market right now.

Its disc media isn't even dvd, but proprietary Nintendo stuff (see PS Vita as why proprietary is such a problem) so that presents more problems.

Nobody-not the devs or the of consumers have any problems with the PS Vita's memory card architecture. The only reason why the card is a negative because it's extremely expensive on the consumer front.

Then they need the man power to work on it.

They had the devkit for two years. If they can't figure it out now- chances are, they simply had no interest in doing anything with the system and never really took a look at it.
And once again, how do yo know how much manpower it takes to make games on the WiiU? Indie devs sure don't have a problem with it? And I have yet to hear testimonials from third party devs about how hard it is to work on the Wii U.

Its beguiling that Nintendo with all their money and connections, couldn't have foreseen such a move, and counter acted with Wii U or held it off for better upgrades.

Microsoft- being a computer manufacturer would naturally have the upper hand advantage in things relating to PC. They practically dominate that market. Sony also has experience in other hardware platforms. Nintendo on the other hand does not have a PC anything branch, or any other hardware branch except gaming consoles. They could sink all their money into new tech. However they don't want to because as Iwata stated a bunch of times, they don't care for the beefiest console.

Someone else above mentioned Wii U indie support. Its really funny to see such a u-turn, for not so long ago Nintendo wouldn't touch indies/small devs with a stick.

Yes. I'm glad Nintendo has turned around and started being more indie friendly.
Of course, don't act like Microsoft was all rosy too. If anything was to go by from Phil Fish and the creators Super Meat Boy, Microsoft acted like complete dicks as well.

People like Notch or Jon Blow, Nintendo used to turn away, claiming if you didn't have an office or had done a game before, they'd not want to do business with you

That is a reasonable safe guard for Nintendo's part. For every good indie game, there are probably 5 shitty ones. Nintendo wants to keep quality games on their shop. If one never made a game before, how can they be sure it's a good game? Similarly, if they don't have a studio, how can they be sure they are legitimate? They have- many times lifted these regulations off of many studios that have shown that their games are worth it despite not meeting their expectations.

Good games can come from anywhere, not just from established studios. By the end of Wii U's life I hope Nintendo will be grateful for their support, displaying that.

When they mean studio, the simply mean a place where you work on games. That can be as big as an office space.
I'm pretty sure that when someone as big as Nintendo personally calls you and states that "hey we would really like your game on our console" that is showing how excited they are for the game. And I'm pretty sure, indie devs are ecstatic to get such a call from Nintendo too.
It's not one sided. Indie devs are just as reliant on PC, and other major game companies for the spotlight.

Lastly, some may think I'm anti Nintendo

The tone, and condescending attitude of your posts- I wouldn't be surprised if anyone thought that.

Games are what I'm about. All myself and some want is an even playing field across formats.

No. It seems you want three consoles. All of which do the exact same song and dance, with the only thing separating them is brand name and looks. That isn't diversity, and that isn't going to help games.
Creativity comes from what devs do. You can have the most powerful system in the world, but nobody would play it if, the only games it has to offer are shooters.

The other systems are there, but we are still waiting for Nintendo to join us,

The only thing Microsoft and Sony are waiting for is Nintendo to fail so they can snap up their IP's and possibly milk them to death.
They are more than happy with the fact that the Wii U isn't doing stellar. Less competition for them.

so one day we can ignore the box labels and just play and enjoy games on each, with their own perks.

So... your basically asking for no exclusives on any other console? Because that's the only thing I'm getting here. Which, if that is the case, why aren't you on the Sony and Microsoft articles ranting and raving about their injustice of keeping games from those who don't wish to buy their systems?

Oh yeah, few games use CGi these days, friend. Most games can do stuff in engine.

This has got to be the dumbest sentence I have read all year.
I guess you missed the E3 trailers this year. Chock to the brim with CGI pre rendered graphics.

 

[Roxas1359]

Bollocks. DVD is a dead medium for gaming. It can't hold more than 5GB of data, and that is not enough for HD games in the future. Lego City Undercover alone takes up 22GB or so on the disc. There was no way Nintendo were going to use DVD, and there was no way they were going to pay Sony for Blu Ray. They're not going to go back to cartridges anytime soon (despite storage size for those having grown exponentially since the 64 days) so making their own proprietary disc format was the only option. And that's fine. How can a disc provide problems when all it needs to do is provide ample storage space and read speed for data? The Wii U succeeds on both counts.

Quick correction on this, Sony doesn't own all rights to Bluray otherwise the Xbox One would be paying Sony for the use of using Bluray discs and having a Bluray drive. Sony worked with Panasonic to create the current 50 GB dual layered Bluray discs that the PS3, PS4, and soon the Xbox One will be using. With that knowledge Nintendo worked with Panasonic to modify the the Wii Optical Disc and the Wii U Optical disc is a modified Bluray disc designed to work specifically with the Wii U's optical drive, so theoretically Nintendo could have created a unique 50 GB dual layered disc with Panasonic since Wii U Optical Discs, Wii Optical Discs, and GameCube Optical discs are not available legally on the market. Also, DVDs can be dual-layered to hold a maximum of 8.5 GBs as that's what PS2 and Xbox started to use towards the end of their life cycle. For example, Halo 2 was dual layered DVD format actually and the Rockband and Guitar Hero games were dual layered.