Why is there such snobbery towards Hip-Hop?

[BonsaiK]

These artists are what hiphop should be, the way it would speak for people to actually find it worth something artistically/culturally

We're talking about two different things.

You're talking about what you feel hip-hop should be.

I'm talking about what hip-hop is.

You're making exactly the same mistake people make when they say "that's not art, it's rubbish" (see my music industry thread). Of course it's art, it's just bad art. The word "art" has nothing to do with quality - if it did, bad art couldn't exist, by definition. Likewise, "hip-hop" is not a badge of quality. There can be, and is, both good and bad hip-hop. Like it or not, both have the same cultural roots.

 

[Radelaide]

Generally because it's pretty terrible. Unless it's Australian Hip-Hop, which is awesome on like... 19 levels.


If you don't like bad language, you're probably in the wrong thread and thus shouldn't press play.

glad someone mentioned bliss n echo

i used to be one of those snobs.. hip hop? that shit isnt real music its all bling and girls shaking their ass on film.

then a friend gave me an introduction to bliss n echo, hilltop hoods,fort minor not to mention properly listening to eminem. i was honestly shocked at how good it could be and the meaning behind good hip hop. hearing hilltop hoods restrung is an experience and a half.. hip hop plus an orchestra

Eso. Bliss 'N Eso.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

These artists are what hiphop should be, the way it would speak for people to actually find it worth something artistically/culturally

We're talking about two different things.

You're talking about what you feel hip-hop should be.

I'm talking about what hip-hop is.

You're making exactly the same mistake people make when they say "that's not art, it's rubbish" (see my music industry thread). Of course it's art, it's just bad art. The word "art" has nothing to do with quality - if it did, bad art couldn't exist, by definition. Likewise, "hip-hop" is not a badge of quality. There can be, and is, both good and bad hip-hop. Like it or not, both have the same cultural roots.

No, you're misunderstanding, you say this is mainstream hiphop, I'm telling you hiphop as you define it is dead, it can only be revived, by returning to the cultural aspect that actually does exist in each of the forms you named

You're the one who posted the video "hiphop lives" and gave up the significant points on what hiphop SHOULD have/be about

AND breakdancing, beatboxing, DJing and certain grafitti styles.

The entire absence of this in it's natural form would mean by your words that hiphop does not exist today, today there exists : Gang focused rap(I'm calling it that you have an idea of what I mean) VS Non gang focused rap.
Breakdancing that is directly relatable to violence VS The I-B-E (International Breakdance Events, well organised , gang afliations are taken down,it's there for the enrichment of the breakdancing industry)
DJ's vs "Sound engineers" (I put this between quotation marks because here I mean people like Infected mushroom as opposed to Tiesto )

TLR
What you say defines hiphop each in its modern way is a seperate thing these days, that's why hiphop by your terms does not exist anymore and why I say it can only be revived

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Going off the same thing I posted in the thread you are most likely complaining about, I hardly consider Hip Hop a form of Rap anymore. I really wish people would acknowledge that Rap has kinda separated itself into two different categories.

And sure, there are exceptions to the rule like you say, but I have yet to find something that really differs itself from the pack that doesn't really fall into Hip Hop.

But hell, if I'm intolerant towards anything it's different music sets. I don't give a shit what you like, but when you start messing with the imaginary lines I've placed on music, I'll snap.

 

[mysecondlife]

My major pet-peeves is that the track always features other marketable artists. Can't the artist just sing their own song without the help from their superstar friends? For fuck sake...

On top of my head... "Run this town" by Jay-Z. It lacks Jay-Z's presence because he defers to to Rihanna (who's a talentless hack) and Kanye (who I'm sure he's secretly sleeping with JZ).

Jurassic 5's stuffs are pretty catchy though.

 

[Retronana]

Immortal Technique? Really? You call that the "golden age of rap"? Have you heard the song Dance with the Devil by Immortal Technique? It's about rape/incest. smh

I like how you judge that song from it's contents and not the message, the message being that men in the ghetto are unknowingly destroying it's only salvation: the women who will raise the next generation. It also states how our destruction always comes from our own actions.

Judging IT off one song isn't really on, that being said he was harder to understand in his earlier work.

OT: I tend to get annoyed with the other end of the spectrum, the hipsters who instantly dismiss artists like Lil Wayne despite not hearing a single track of his, or judging someone from a single song. Admittedly I think lil wayne is shit but he has a few decent tracks with some lyrical value to them.

 

[HardkorSB]

No. He means hip hop. Hip hop is a genre, rapping is something you do with your voice. It's like calling rock music "Sing". Makes no sense.

I've been into the hip-hop culture for about 15 years now, I've even wrote my degree paper in college about it, which included 30 pages explaining the origins and history of hip-hop.
I know what I'm talking about.

Read this if you would like to know more about the culture, it's a good start:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7307/hiphopdeclarationofpeacon6.jpg

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.

I believe you basically summed it up neatly in your introduction, the proper build-up to above question. Hip-Hop/Rap has changed substantially, and I myself would even go so far as say it has degenerated into something mostly artificial. The old crooners could easily get away with being fronts and fakes, if only the art of the delivery was proper. Rap started out as a gut thing, a ritualized replacement for shooting yourself or others, put very, very bluntly. The rat-tat-tat of the mouth was able to recount real-life horror stories, but it could also help let off steam before any such thing would take place in the reality we share. There was an incredible amount of beauty in Rap up to, say, twenty years ago. The rhymes, the beats, the loops - it was something to write home about, and it was worth getting the vinyl or CD, enjoy the music and ponder on the stories told, even if one was more into, say, heavier metal, singer-songwriting guitarman or classical music by default. It was part of an important and remarkable culture, and it felt that way all the way.

These days, I sense very little art, very little effort. Twenty years ago we could go to a rap concert in full corpsepaint and leather, and we just had a good time. We did crossover, mingling with others and everyone got out of it with an expanded horizon and a smile on the face. Starting in the mid-nineties, rap concerts turned into some perverted sessions of wierd pseudo-ghetto urban warfare, with lots of very real violence, lots of police and fully grown males ogling the shoes of the competition. Concerts suddenly consisted mostly of gangsta catwalk, vandalism and violence, and the actual performance on stage stopped feeling like something worth spending money on. I vividly remember going for an after-concert pizza with MOP, and I frankly just had to stick it to them... listen, boys, whitebread here did enjoy the seven or so tracks you did, but are you really positive that was worth fifty bucks? They nearly choked on pizza, and we had a little argument that basically left me with respect for MOP, but made me lose sympathy for what Hip-Hop had become. I still love my canned culture on vinyl and CD, but the current Rap scene seems hard to make look good.

You mentioned ICP - I am not really in the know what they are up to lately, safe for reports from the front of their annual drugapalooza rough rides for masses. But I tell you this: Their early work was proper Hip-Hop, with enough black-and-white-face humour in it to still make me crack up today. Their lyrics were so very much beyond "out there" it felt like a cartoonish jab at what hip-hop eventually turned into. But ICP still manage to make me laugh today, fiddy and diddy and daddy still make me question the artform, the industry and mankind in general.

 

[BonsaiK]

You're the one who posted the video "hiphop lives" and gave up the significant points on what hiphop SHOULD have/be about

But that stuff isn't what it should be about, that's what is IS about. It never "died", all the cultural elements of hip-hop have existed since the form started and continue to exist. Some do it better than others, but it all falls under the same umbrella.

The topics of rap songs, and the link (or lack thereof) between hip-hop culture and gangs is a completely different subject. Just because someone starts rapping about their experiences in a gang doesn't mean it's "not hip-hop anymore". Nor does it mean that it's "more hip-hop than something else". The culture isn't defined by its topics, and rappers can (and do) rap about whatever the hell they want.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

There's a lot of good stuff out there, but tracks amongst our plastic-and-vynil archive that made me reconsider and respect would have to include:

<youtube=cTXeg-Swq9w>
Supergroup "Gravediggaz - 1-800-SUICIDE - very simple, lovely loop, puts the emphasis on the word art performed.

<youtube=dxBvUqLs_eU>
Brand Nubian - Punks Jump Up To Get Beat Down

<youtube=K9F5xcpjDMU>
Black Sheep - The Choice is Yours - 'nuff said.

 

[Jazoni89]

Yes, us Brits take good music genres and turn them upside down, that's what we do best.

Fix'd.

Seriously though, "you Brits" think way too highly of your musical talents.

Why can't we Brits be proud of something for a change, it works for you Americans quite nicely.

How am i thinking "too highly" You Americans have made some great genres, Grunge comes into mind.

It's just that I feel Trip-Hop is infinitely better than Hip-Hop, and if more people knew what Trip-Hop is, then I'm sure that most would agree with me, especially on here.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Yes, us Brits take good music genres and turn them upside down, that's what we do best.

Fix'd.

Seriously though, "you Brits" think way too highly of your musical talents.

Why can't we Brits be proud of something for a change, it works for you Americans nicely.

<youtube=4Qn9nZpQV2Q>

Honky did it with dat funky rap muzak, too. And it was lurvely.

 

[generals3]

Now I LOVE Hip-Hop, it's one of my favourite genres and I listen to it probably every day. So it frankly pisses me off when some people (and I must stress, SOME) start saying that rap isn't real music or that it isn't worth their time, thinking they're better than those that listen to it.

Well here's my two cents, i don't think it's music simply because those songs often hurt my ears or have texts that hurt my brain. This said if you like it, well who am i to prevent you to listen to it. It's not like i'll think lesser of people who have different tastes, but it's like with any art form, some people will call certain movies art and others pieces of poo , same for paintings, books, etc. It's mainly a matter of opinion and not really "snobbery".

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

You're the one who posted the video "hiphop lives" and gave up the significant points on what hiphop SHOULD have/be about

But that stuff isn't what it should be about, that's what is IS about. It never "died", all the cultural elements of hip-hop have existed since the form started and continue to exist. Some do it better than others, but it all falls under the same umbrella.

The topics of rap songs, and the link (or lack thereof) between hip-hop culture and gangs is a completely different subject. Just because someone starts rapping about their experiences in a gang doesn't mean it's "not hip-hop anymore". Nor does it mean that it's "more hip-hop than something else". The culture isn't defined by its topics, and rappers can (and do) rap about whatever the hell they want.

yes but then it remains so that as I made clear , that is why we as the general offset here dislike it subconsciously

 

[Cenequus]

Now I LOVE Hip-Hop, it's one of my favourite genres and I listen to it probably every day. So it frankly pisses me off when some people (and I must stress, SOME) start saying that rap isn't real music or that it isn't worth their time, thinking they're better than those that listen to it.

Now I know some rap has its problems, like Lil Wayne and 50 Cent being derogatory to women and the sheer idiocy of the Insane Clown Posse, but how can you lump that nonsense with the golden age rap of Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash and the like or the more alternative stuff of Tyler The Creator or Immortal Technique? Hip-hop is a valid art form just like other genres of music.

I've even heard some people (including here on The Escapist) say that rap, by definition, isn't music at all! Webster defines music as 'vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.' Hip-Hop clearly hits these criteria.

BTW I'm not a Hip-Hop elitist or anything like that. I listen to loads of genres; Punk, Metal, Soul, Funk, Pop, Dubstep, D'n'B, Grime. If it sounds good I'll listen to it. It just annoys me that people are so harsh and dismissive of something I love so much.

TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.

Well you explained it yourself why people bang on it.It's just because the media is bombed with all those dumb ass bands. It's not even about beeing derogatory to women,they are just dumb. Everybody knows that ever saw The Boondocks knows why they are bad.

But still the alternative scene of this genre is so small that that shit described above IS the genre not the trash,kinda like pop.

As for giving by two best groups that I like above everything: EL-P and Aesop Rock. If hip hop was smart like this it would easylly be the best genre.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I must admit that, to my "uneducated" ears, rap and hip hop music sound like a right load of crap. I mean there are no notes, unless they're sampled from someone else's song, and WTF is with the lyrics? Most songs deal with universal things like love, loss, and so on. But hip hop? As far as I can tell, hip hop is a bunch of random rhyming words which, on the rare occasion that they make any sense at all, are mostly just about me me me me me (i.e. the person singing).

then you've never heard this kind of hiphop before.

then this is with an actual rapper attached to it

Quote me if you know what either song is about, I'll show you how prejudiced some people can be

OK, I forced myself to listen to the second one all the way through. A rather irritating and repetitive racket IMO, but I did it for science. There's no melody, and the words were hard for me to make out, but it sounded like he was rapping about nightclubs, parties, and being out late?

So... is this the part where you show me how prejudiced I am?

 

[Grant Hobba]

Now I LOVE Hip-Hop, it's one of my favourite genres and I listen to it probably every day. So it frankly pisses me off when some people (and I must stress, SOME) start saying that rap isn't real music or that it isn't worth their time, thinking they're better than those that listen to it.

Now I know some rap has its problems, like Lil Wayne and 50 Cent being derogatory to women and the sheer idiocy of the Insane Clown Posse, but how can you lump that nonsense with the golden age rap of Public Enemy, Grandmaster Flash and the like or the more alternative stuff of Tyler The Creator or Immortal Technique? Hip-hop is a valid art form just like other genres of music.

I've even heard some people (including here on The Escapist) say that rap, by definition, isn't music at all! Webster defines music as 'vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony.' Hip-Hop clearly hits these criteria.

BTW I'm not a Hip-Hop elitist or anything like that. I listen to loads of genres; Punk, Metal, Soul, Funk, Pop, Dubstep, D'n'B, Grime. If it sounds good I'll listen to it. It just annoys me that people are so harsh and dismissive of something I love so much.

TLDR; why are people so dismissive of Hip-Hop? It's a legitimate genre of music, and a legitimate art form.

express yourself - N.W.A hiphop....


anything made today - .....utterly shit. rap died.... its all about autotune and singing about how easy it is, to get with strippers and hookers... well rappers i'm sorry but it isn't hard for anyone... they are hookers and strippers... money will usually suffice.

 

[M-E-D The Poet]

I must admit that, to my "uneducated" ears, rap and hip hop music sound like a right load of crap. I mean there are no notes, unless they're sampled from someone else's song, and WTF is with the lyrics? Most songs deal with universal things like love, loss, and so on. But hip hop? As far as I can tell, hip hop is a bunch of random rhyming words which, on the rare occasion that they make any sense at all, are mostly just about me me me me me (i.e. the person singing).

then you've never heard this kind of hiphop before.

then this is with an actual rapper attached to it

Quote me if you know what either song is about, I'll show you how prejudiced some people can be

OK, I forced myself to listen to the second one all the way through. A rather irritating and repetitive racket IMO, but I did it for science. There's no melody, and the words were hard for me to make out, but it sounded like he was rapping about nightclubs, parties, and being out late?

So... is this the part where you show me how prejudiced I am?

It's a song about drug abuse and suicide.

Are you scared? : hardly.. , new life next party
This refers to the way people view their life in such an aggraved negative context
just a simple out-take

Also punk rock and modern rock are almost always based around 4 simple chords