Why isn't Superboy Prime heralded as one of the greatest villains of all time?

Recommended Videos

Cicada 5

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2015
3,136
1,706
118
Country
Nigeria
runic knight said:
Why? Because the writers of the character are horrible at their job and it showed.

The character is an unlikable douche who's power comes not actually from his backstory, but rather, from terrible writing of the past all gathered together and left in a pile for the readers to deal with. Honestly, if not for the writers making him the equivalent power to the epitome of all supermen across multiverses, he'd not even warrant consideration. And that is a mark of a bad villain, not a good one, if their powers is all you can recall about them.

The character makes me think of bad fanfiction, where someone mary-stu'd all over established cannon and ass-pulled about scope of the power as a poor attempt to make the character threatening, while sabotaging their own efforts by having the character be the most whiny, annoying brat readers are forced to deal with. Hell, they even "nu uh'd" the standard superman weaknesses with bullshit, so that kyptonyte barely worked and red sun radiation merely reduced him to the power of the standard superman instead of depowering him completely. Hell, spoilers if I remember right, they couldn't even kill him, they had to literally cage him within a red sun with a swath of green lanturns constantly watching just to keep him pinned down.

Good villains can express aspects of humanity gone astray in a way that makes the character threatening beyond their power. The joker, not counting some weird eternal life stuff going on recently, was always just a madman. A single man who's threat was minimal in skills and ability but who's threat was super villain territory because of madness and unpredictability. Lex Luther is a single man who's intellect is indeed powerful, but it his ambition and drive that makes him a good villain (when done right anyways), as it is ambition that makes him threatening.

Superboy is what happens if a toddler was given the power of a god. The result is as villainous as a natural disaster. Sure there is a lot of destruction, but it is so pointless in the end, and not impressive outside of the scope.

Now the character had potential. It had a lot of potential as a concept. A being who is a god, who's power is so vast and dwarfs even the main universe's superman grieves for the loss of his universe and wants to right the world regardless the cost. That is a decent motivation there. The power of loss mixed with the the faint hope of fixing what was wrong all mixed together in the mind of a teenager who's pain fueled the direction he started down, and who's pride made him see it as the only way once it started to cost his soul and his morality as he went. Even more, the character would have sympathy and if the writers presented it well, could actually argue the point with some degree of reason, making the efforts that much more fitting. Superboy was a hero, if the situation was presented as, say, the universe could be fixed so he had his lost ones back at great risk to other universes, then it pits the heroic idea in his own head of fighting impossible odds against the risk of great harm the others see much more clearly. Many good villains see themselves as the hero after all, and of those that do, the best ones actually have a point.

Sadly, none of that gets through well with the character at all. The grief is displayed as petulant whining. The determination conflicting with moral uncertainty about what he was doing barely mentioned. The situation very black and white, and the character actively knows it means the end of everything, even from the start if I remember right.

The character is just bad, and the only villain I see when I think of him is the fanfic writers
The writers basically wrote him that way as a jab at the "ruined forever" fan boys who were always complaining about change. Which would have been admirable if it weren't utterly hypocritical. At around this era of Superboy Prime, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were reinstated as Green Lantern and Flash respectively and their replacements were basically background characters. There were also plans to place Barbara Gordon back in the role of Batgirl despite her having become much more popular as Oracle. So basically DC derailed a character to represent the type of people DC themselves had become.
 

Cicada 5

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2015
3,136
1,706
118
Country
Nigeria
runic knight said:
Why? Because the writers of the character are horrible at their job and it showed.

The character is an unlikable douche who's power comes not actually from his backstory, but rather, from terrible writing of the past all gathered together and left in a pile for the readers to deal with. Honestly, if not for the writers making him the equivalent power to the epitome of all supermen across multiverses, he'd not even warrant consideration. And that is a mark of a bad villain, not a good one, if their powers is all you can recall about them.

The character makes me think of bad fanfiction, where someone mary-stu'd all over established cannon and ass-pulled about scope of the power as a poor attempt to make the character threatening, while sabotaging their own efforts by having the character be the most whiny, annoying brat readers are forced to deal with. Hell, they even "nu uh'd" the standard superman weaknesses with bullshit, so that kyptonyte barely worked and red sun radiation merely reduced him to the power of the standard superman instead of depowering him completely. Hell, spoilers if I remember right, they couldn't even kill him, they had to literally cage him within a red sun with a swath of green lanturns constantly watching just to keep him pinned down.

Good villains can express aspects of humanity gone astray in a way that makes the character threatening beyond their power. The joker, not counting some weird eternal life stuff going on recently, was always just a madman. A single man who's threat was minimal in skills and ability but who's threat was super villain territory because of madness and unpredictability. Lex Luther is a single man who's intellect is indeed powerful, but it his ambition and drive that makes him a good villain (when done right anyways), as it is ambition that makes him threatening.

Superboy is what happens if a toddler was given the power of a god. The result is as villainous as a natural disaster. Sure there is a lot of destruction, but it is so pointless in the end, and not impressive outside of the scope.

Now the character had potential. It had a lot of potential as a concept. A being who is a god, who's power is so vast and dwarfs even the main universe's superman grieves for the loss of his universe and wants to right the world regardless the cost. That is a decent motivation there. The power of loss mixed with the the faint hope of fixing what was wrong all mixed together in the mind of a teenager who's pain fueled the direction he started down, and who's pride made him see it as the only way once it started to cost his soul and his morality as he went. Even more, the character would have sympathy and if the writers presented it well, could actually argue the point with some degree of reason, making the efforts that much more fitting. Superboy was a hero, if the situation was presented as, say, the universe could be fixed so he had his lost ones back at great risk to other universes, then it pits the heroic idea in his own head of fighting impossible odds against the risk of great harm the others see much more clearly. Many good villains see themselves as the hero after all, and of those that do, the best ones actually have a point.

Sadly, none of that gets through well with the character at all. The grief is displayed as petulant whining. The determination conflicting with moral uncertainty about what he was doing barely mentioned. The situation very black and white, and the character actively knows it means the end of everything, even from the start if I remember right.

The character is just bad, and the only villain I see when I think of him is the fanfic writers
The writers basically wrote him that way as a jab at the "ruined forever" fan boys who were always complaining about change. Which would have been admirable if it weren't utterly hypocritical. At around this era of Superboy Prime, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were reinstated as Green Lantern and Flash respectively and their replacements were basically background characters. There were also plans to place Barbara Gordon back in the role of Batgirl despite her having become much more popular as Oracle. So basically DC derailed a character to represent the type of people DC themselves had become.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
3,056
0
0
Plenty of reasons have already been pointed out, but here's another: he's just a derivative of Superman, not an original character. Darth Vader is an original character. The Joker is an original character. Alex from Clockwork Orange is an original character (adapted from the book but still). And they all are larger than life in some way. If Superboy Prime is like how you describe him, he's not the kind of villain I'd run away in terror from, but the kind of typical angst-douche I'd just avoid conversation with and avoid whenever possible. Link from Legend of Zelda is heralded as one of gaming's greatest heroes. Why isn't Dark link heralded as one of the greatest gaming villains? Exactly.
 

fix-the-spade

New member
Feb 25, 2008
8,639
0
0
SaneAmongInsane said:
Here we have a character, who has all of superman's powers. So he's basically unstoppable. And too boot he's a whiny emo teenager who's kinda ticked off about his place in the world and has the desire to take it out on said world.

How does that not send a chill down your spine?
So he's prequel era Annakin Skywalker then?

Forgive me for not getting in the least bit excited about that, maybe he should wander off to Apokolips and spend some time getting tutelage from Darkseid. Then make him part of one old grey skin's epic schemes.
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,261
1,118
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
bartholen said:
Why isn't Dark link heralded as one of the greatest gaming villains? Exactly.
Bad example. Dark Link's existence is pretty much summed up as "miniboss". In any given game that he appears in he gets one room in a dungeon and that's it. No motives, no characterization, no backstory, just a reflection of Link's physical ability. Honestly, I think that if they were willing to move away from that and expand upon him, Dark Link could make for a decent villain. Can you just imagine a dark shadow of the guy popping up throughout the game to mock Link and prey on his concerns and insecurities, trying to warp him into a mockery of the Triforce of Courage he bears? There's potential there, I think.

Tangentially, as I see it, that basic idea is what makes a villainous counterpart work. In having the two versions clash, it forces them to reassess themselves and what makes them different than their counterpart, a rumination that we in the audience share. DCAU's Justice League made the concept work with "Justice Lord" Superman. This wasn't because he had fewer moral compunctions than the 'main' Superman, but because the ramifications of that Superman forced everyone - including Superman himself - to realize just how easy it would be for him to start down that same path. That fear visibly caused Superman to start second guessing himself before he ultimately rejected the same moment that defined his alternate universe counterpart. I don't think I can say that Superboy Prime ever inspired a similar reaction.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Jan 16, 2010
19,538
4,128
118
Who?

Ok, I know who he is, vaguely, but he's pretty obscure. Why not the evil version of Supergirl that was there for like 3 stories? She was more relatable.
 

Azrael the Cat

New member
Dec 13, 2008
370
0
0
I disagree with a lot of the reasoning here. Self-control-of-a-toddler / power-of-a-god has been one of the great formula for villains in other media, but it usually requires a horror bent (to bring out the sheer destructive fury, and for the unease generated by the reader's awareness that the monster isn't 'evil' and is as distraught at what's happening as everyone else). E.g.:
- Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (the early sections, that is, i.e. when he's still a well-meaning outcast being hounded by villagers with torches and pitchforks; obviously not later when he's highly educated/literate and bent on revenge against his creator's family);
- the modern BBC miniseries version of Hyde;
- the classic Twilight Zone episode 'It's a good life' (probably the best depiction of it).
- Miracle Man (even though they're grown up by the start of the Alan Moore run, there's still large elements of it - eg 'You....you're the only one who cared about me...tried to protect me from those juvenile thugs...I think I'll let you live.......[leaves frame]....[re-enters frame]....Nah, he'll just think I'm getting soft!')


Superboy Prime just hasn't been written very well, i.e. more of a straw man attack on their own readers than a genuine attempt at power-toddler horror. If you took the concept further, and had him acting MORE like a young kid, it could be extremely effective - going on a rampage over some minor slight, which only lasts 30 seconds but causes mass death and destruction, and is then left crying and lonely because he didn't actually meant to do any of it and he actually cared about the people he's just killed. I.e. instead of a villain, a lost kid who's no worse than any other young kid, KNOWS it, but is simply too powerful to control. Have scenes of rampage being followed up by him pathetically trying, and mostly failing, to cook himself dinner, sorting through the smoking rubble to trying and find the doll his parents gave him, crying himself to sleep in a badly made replica of his old bedroom...
 

PapaGreg096

New member
Oct 12, 2013
1,037
0
0
crimson5pheonix said:
Because there is a far better way to do "evil Superman" stories. Irredeemable had a great one (though just a Superman expy).

You can read that quote above, and compare to how this guy reacts to lasering somebodies face off.



The worst part is he's as disgruntled as Superboy. But instead of getting whiny, he gets even.
I also add The Maker from the Ultimate Verse, scariest villians in fiction and basically evil Reed Richards.

 

irishda

New member
Dec 16, 2010
968
0
0
As a rule, I avoid touting something from comic books (and many times fantasy/sci-fi too) as a pinnacle of anything related to written substance. "Less is more" is a fantastic lesson for writers to learn, especially when it comes to your villains. Some of the most effective and scariest villains weren't superpowered megalomaniacs who sought to destroy the world. They were ordinary people, ordinary but twisted in the simplest of ways. Comics generally go the opposite way. Everything is big in comics (most of them, anyways), and that means the villains tend to have big goals and methods too.

The Terminator wasn't a great villain because it screamed and roared and blew up cities by the block.It was great because it just kept coming no matter what you threw at it. No words, no anger, just pure focus. Annie Wilkes, Norman Bates, Nurse Ratched, Gordon Gekko, Humbert Humbert, Mr Dark, Hannibal Lecter, they all have a place in the pantheon not because they left the widest trail of destruction (or had the potential to) but because of how they committed their crimes.
 

HybridChangeling

New member
Dec 13, 2015
179
0
0
The way you presented him makes me really want to see Prequel Anakin Skywalker versus Superboy Prime. That would be an angst match for the ages.

While I usually don't get too excited about comic book villians or heroes unless they are Red Hood, Two Face, or other Batman villians, I think he has potential. Maybe if he had a bit more comic time or maybe an arc of his own to become something more then whiny superman. Since everyone likes to throw Darth Vader at OP, I will use it as well. If he had an arc that made him from whiny superman to super focused bad guy, then we could start talking a "great villain". Until then, he is a potential great villain, little more.
 

Johnny Novgorod

Bebop Man
Legacy
Feb 9, 2012
19,347
4,013
118
SaneAmongInsane said:
DoPo said:
You seem to equate "potential danger" with "greatness". Why is that?

Is a monkey holding a grenade a greater villain than Darth Vader? After all, who knows what the monkey would do with the grenade!
Monkey with a gun? No.

But I'm far more afraid of an angsty teenager with a shot gun than I am, say, ISIS.
Because as an American it's more probable that you might come across an angsty teenager with a shotgun than it is you might encounter ISIS. So that example sends you back to "potential danger".
 

Gatx

New member
Jul 7, 2011
1,458
0
0
SaneAmongInsane said:
Let me get this straight...

Here we have a character, who has all of superman's powers. So he's basically unstoppable. And too boot he's a whiny emo teenager who's kinda ticked off about his place in the world and has the desire to take it out on said world.

How does that not send a chill down your spine?

The very character is like giving Superman powers to Eric freaking Harris. I don't understand why anyone would ***** that he's whiny, that's the EXACT reason he's so terrifying. You have an unhappy teenager, AND he's the ability to melt your face with laser vision.
Because, as pointed out already, is quite literally a metaphor for the complaining fanboy (as opposed to troubled teenager). To start off he's from Earth-Prime, which had originally been meant to represent our world where DC comics exist and he's named after Superman and gets teased in school because of it.

He gets powers and is whisked away to participate in the first Crisis event that combines the multiverses into one to make comics less complicated (as DC is want to do every so often). Infinite Crisis kicks off with him quite WATCHING how everything's been playing out since the big change and CRITICIZING it and wanting things to go back to the way they WERE.

He isn't used with more "respect" because he represents something the creators are frustrated by in real-life.