Why it is acceptable to criticize smokers, but not fat people?

[Skiisk]

Fat people are lazy, smokers are idiots, end of story.

Though I'm not sure I can call smokers names these days, considering how I've been turned into a drunk smoker during the last year. Sigh, figured it was too much to ask to stay off of at least ONE harmful substance.

Anyway, obesity can be disease related. In such a case, it could be compared to being disabled. But more often than not, it's just easier to pick up the double whopper than to whip up something tasteful and healthy at home.

On the other hand, it could be just the natural selection doing it's job. At some point fat people are going to too fat to really reproduce, and considering their life expectancy it shouldn't take too long before the world is full of fit people, like me.

 

[Unia]

I'd say the difference is in causes. How does one become a smoker? By obtaining and using cigarettes. How does one become obese? By having unfortunate genes + social background with likewise tendencies + diet rife with fat and sugar (obvious or hidden) in any combination. Sure you could argue smokers had peer pressure and other reasoning but the point is, they can point back to when they had their first smoke. An obese person usually can't say "around THAT time I started consuming more than needed". Also, nobody slips you nicotin without you noticing (I hope), but processed foods are full of stuff that's there just to give volume and condition the consumer to feel full.

Tobacco is a luxury you need extra income to buy. Food on the other hand is vital and funny thing is, fresh vegetables and things tend to be more expensive compared to the bulk-produced crap.

So to sum up, they're both conditions one would do well to avoid, but obesity is more insidious. From personal experience I'd say supporting change works better than prosecution against both.

 

[Ryank1908]

It usually takes longer for someone to stop being fat than to stop smoking. Also, smoke stinks. The most a fat person could inconvenience another is by taking up extra space or food.

Fat people can stink too.

I've often felt the same way. I don't think either smokers nor obese people should be insulted as such, but there is this culture of mollycoddling obese people that NEEDS to end, because being obese should be feared. It can lead to a tonne of serious health defects for you and your children, and should in no way be encouraged. It's largely down to society - fast food, convinience, the expense of organic foods, hyperglycemic conditions - but by not letting people feel comfortable about it, it could be reduced.
Also, I would just like to take this time to say I despise the self-righteous attitudes many on this forum have towards smokers. Watching someone you love struggle to give up smoking is a horrible thing. Yes, it is initially a choice, but normally that choice is made in your teens with an underdeveloped mind and peer-pressure, when you think piercings and binge drinking are good ideas too. Then, it is a CHEMICAL and MENTAL addiction. It's not so black and white as people make out, and the quitting process can take years to complete.

 

[Brown Cap]

To the ignorant, or just down-right pricks, it's fine to critisize both. Smokers pend about a thousand dollars a year on poison that kills others in addition to themselves, and fat people are (usually) just lazy people who can't control their dietary habits.

Now, taking some insight into the matter, it isn't good to critisize either because smoking is considered by some as an addiction and/or a disease that is difficult to cure because people may not have the willpower or may not even want to quit. As for the obese, it can be very difficult to lose a good 50-100 pounds at their pace at any rate, and some are stricken with "glandular problems" that aren't really that big of a joke.

Thus, each side does, in fact, bring a lot of animosity towards eachother through dumb decisions that they make, but also there are points and aspects where they can't control the consequences of their decisions. Who could do that anyway?

It isn't politically correct, but I critisize both.

 

[DracoSuave]

But if you don't live with someone who smokes and the only second hand smoke you're getting is from walking past people in the street, I really don't think it's an issue. The tiny amount of toxic smoke you're inhaling is nowhere near enough to cause any problems unless you're asthmatic, and even then it would only be coughing, the human lungs are slightly more resilient than the die hard anti second hand smoke campaigners would have you think.

Dude stick around and read through the thread a little, I haven't bothered myself cause these things are all the same around here, but I bet that somewhere in here is the sob story of someone who instantly developed an asthmatic tumour as a result of being within 10 metres of someone who smoked the day before. If you believe even HALF of the complete shite thats going to be in this thread, there are some seriously ill people that post here whenever they aren't in a bloody bubble...

Smoking offers ZERO benefits other than perhaps getting cancer in a dozen or so years.

I love it how on any other topic someone who admitted to knowing fuck all about the subject and had never experienced it would probably not bother chiming in. But of course everyone knows everything about smoking. ESPECIALLY the people who've never done it and regard the whole thing through lenses of fear and disgust.

Defensive much?

Some people believe the scientific data on it. They believe that substances that contain known carcinogens are... get this... carcinogenic.

I know, wacky, right?

Facts in an argument?! WHO NEEDS THEM

 

[Nisselue]

Most smokers I know are, in fact, considerate about public smoking near me. They ask if I mind, and generally I say 'No I do not' because I don't mind when asked politely.

There is an etiquette to it for a reason... but a lot of smokers I don't know don't share that etiquette, which is a problem of manners.

For the record: A smoker does not need to ask in his own home, nor do I expect him to.

This is what i am saying, as long as you are polite about it the majority of smokers will be polite back.

FACT CHECKING IS HARD

I probably should have double checked those studies i agree. I made a booboo so i apologise.
No need to be snappy tho. :')

I still think that the only way someone would have to worry about second-hand smoking would be if they lived with someone smoking or worked at a place where there is constanlty smoke. I highly doubt you are going to get cancer by walking past someone who smokes outside as every smoker do these days.

Someone who smokes 10 - 20 sigarettes everyday for 10 years doesn't get cancer so why would most of the non-smokers get any problems related to smoke unless they are activeley staying at places where people smoke?

 

[DracoSuave]

Someone who smokes 10 - 20 sigarettes everyday for 10 years doesn't get cancer

Unless you're my grandparents, or any other number of people who have, in fact, gotten lung cancer from smoking often for years.

Anyways, enough talking about the dead.

Just so you understand why non-smokers dislike second hand smoke so much... it's not because of the 'possibility of cancer' tho that's certainly a good enough reason.

The thing is... when you don't smoke, you don't have a tolerance for nicotine or any of the other chemicals in smoke that give a smoker his enjoyment. You know, the reason you smoke? And the truth is, a LOT of nonsmokers don't enjoy cigarette smoke because that nicotine DOES affect us. It causes our bodies to do fucked up and unpleasent things.

Remember the headache you got the first time you smoked? Think hard on that.

Now understand that when you smoke near others who don't smoke, some of those people are getting that exact headache--that's why you ask politely, because the sorts that are prone to this should not have to suffer it because an addict needs their fix.

Barbecued food. The black stuff that forms on a sausage or chicken leg when its been on the grill? Yeah. Benzopyrene. Charring food produces an effect similar to tobacco pyrolysis, which in human enzymes turns them into carcinogenic compounds which fuse to DNA permanently.

Facts.

Not disputing this, and if people make the choice to eat that food, that's fine. They have that right.

But it's not a good rebuttal to my point; people make choices to eat or not eat certain foods... but no one has the right to force food down their mouth against their will... which is exactly what second hand smoke is.

The fact is, cigarette are a drug. Now, you have the right to take this drug, and frankly, good on you. I can't judge for you if you derive a benefit from it or not. But others have made the choice not to take it, based on factual evidence that there's no health benefits to doing so, and many health risks. Does smoking a cigarette make you feel better? Of course, it's a drug. But does that mean it has health benefits?

Well... cocaine is an effective treatment for cocaine withdrawl pains...

 

[A Free Man]

Well as far as I'm conerned I don't care. I honestly have no problem with people being fat or smoking or doing whatever it is they want to do. I do care however if what they are doing either annoys me or in some other way directly affects me negatively. So as long as fat people don't go around spitting their food in my face they can do what they want. As for the health system spendings and stuff that goes a bit beyond me. I am not going to determine who to like and not like based on how they affect a system I neither understand nor particularly care about. Sure I probably should care about it but it's just not worth the effort unless I have a direct reason to try to.

 

[alinos]

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.

The thing is how do you tell who actually has a problem and who is fat because they lack the willpower.

Not to mention that generally speaking calling someone out for being fat is more likely to have them reaching for those comfort foods than it is going to send them to the gym.

I'd also say alot of people underestimate how hard it is for some of these people to actually get started with an exercise routine. It's all well and good to say their lazy shit's with no motivation.

But when they are truly overweight as some people are, even going for a walk or the like that they don't normally do can lead to all sort's of thing's from back pain to rash's.

And even then, you shouldn't be loosing more than say a KG a week and most people won't even achieve that. so someone who is 40kg overweight(say 120KG which isn't all that fat compared to some) is going to take most of a year to loose that weight assuming they are burning a KG a week, which most won't.

Now if someone is actually doing that. And some random people start calling them fat. Even if they have lost 4 KG's in the past 5 weeks can be extremely demoralizing and can as mentioned before lead them back to bad habit's.

Hell iv'e seen people who have made great strides with their weight problem's only to sprain their ankle badly and suddenly a couple of day's off their feet they have undone the last 2 weeks of work.

Then you look at cigarette's you have the addiction part of them. You can scale back on cigarettes to wean yourself off them. You don't have to spend an hour or more in the gym or exercising each day to remove the effect's. It really is a choice, and then having the willpower to stop. Some people don't have the spare time to exercise the weight they have slowly amassed over the last decade. To stop smoking you would really be wasting no more time than what you already were on smoking.

Sure it's probably unfair that one is lambasted more than the other, the problem is that harassing a fat person probably isn't going to help. Harassing a smoker is basically going to get a piss off.

Also it can come down to cost. Fast fatty food's are often cheaper(at least over here) than their healthy counterpart's.

 

[Redworld13]

I love hearing a bunch of non smokers opinions on this, quite fascinating really.....
As Bill hicks said "why not look around the world in which we live.......... and shutting your f**king mouth"
Go back to the middle ages, was obesity such a problem then? People must have been suffering from it? Right?
I was fat when i was 8 years old (and before then) then puberty kicked in and everything changed.
Im a smoker. Why do i smoke? because i like the taste and smell of it! Do i care if people catch my "Second hand" smoke? no because i follow the laws of my country and walk away from every non smoker. Fat people deserve the critism because they made their choice (unless their under the age of 16) just like smokers do, we're on the same level!
How about we just go back and give shit to people in advertising, alot easier......

 

[Aviyur]

Because the fat guy is only affecting his own life

Assholes with cancer sticks are stood around breathing that shit everywhere. Great, fuck your own lungs up. Just dont fuck mine up.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'm a big girl and I know I can lose weight but I suffer from PTSD, depression and Anxiety disorder. It has been diagnosed by a psychiatrist. It's a real freaking struggle against my mind to summon the willpower to eat properly and exercise because some days my depression makes it hard to even get out of bed never mind do a full exercise regime.

I have tried losing weight before and it worked (3st in 6 months) but then I just fell into a depression again and I put it all back on. It made things even worse because I beat myself up about it.

When I feel better in myself, I think I'm getting there... I will try and lose weight again but I guess my point to the OP was is that you really have no idea how people are affected in their lives by other factors. They aren't all just stupid fatties that stuff their face.

Sorry if this is TMI but I thought it was relevant.

 

[Nisselue]

Someone who smokes 10 - 20 sigarettes everyday for 10 years doesn't get cancer so why would most of the non-smokers get any problems related to smoke unless they are activeley staying at places where people smoke?

Unless you're my grandparents, or any other number of people who have, in fact, gotten lung cancer from smoking often for years.

Anyways, enough talking about the dead.

Just so you understand why non-smokers dislike second hand smoke so much... it's not because of the 'possibility of cancer' tho that's certainly a good enough reason.

The thing is... when you don't smoke, you don't have a tolerance for nicotine or any of the other chemicals in smoke that give a smoker his enjoyment. You know, the reason you smoke? And the truth is, a LOT of nonsmokers don't enjoy cigarette smoke because that nicotine DOES affect us. It causes our bodies to do fucked up and unpleasent things.

Remember the headache you got the first time you smoked? Think hard on that.

Now understand that when you smoke near others who don't smoke, some of those people are getting that exact headache--that's why you ask politely, because the sorts that are prone to this should not have to suffer it because an addict needs their fix.

I didn't start smoking before i was 17 so yes i do know how it is to be close to smokers when you do not smoke, i was one of those who liked the smell.

Both parties has a resposibility to do what is right for them, Y N LIKE SMOKE? Stay the Fuck away from smoke. You like smoke? Smoke where you are allowed to smoke follow the law and try to be considerate of others.

 

[Trivun]

Let make this perfectly clear: being fat should not be a protected class like race, gender, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Unlike those categories, being fat is almost always a choice. Only a small percentage of people are overweight because of a legitimate medical condition like hyperthyroidism. And sure, eating disorders with psychological roots exist, but let's be honest: most fat people are fat because of poor food choices and because they lack the willpower and motivation to exercise regularly. They just don't like to be called out on it.

And that is where I decided that your post is completely uninformed. Being fat is NOT mostly a choice. Being fat is occasionally a choice, yes, but in general, and indeed most of the time, there are underlying issues regarding it. For example, two people may eat exactly the same things and have very similar lifestyles, yet one may be fat and the other slim, and that could be down to biological differences between them (not necessarily metabolism either, by the way). And before you start, I have witnessed this first hand through my life, and indeed I live in a house where this is the case - I'm quite slim, while the rest of my family are fairly fat - we all have the same lifestyles, and we eat the same food that my mother buys each week.

So no, being fat isn't always a choice. I know people who are fat and have tried to cut down, who have been on diets and have stuck to them and have made every effort to live a better lifestyle, and they are still fat. Maybe not as fat as before, and they're still quite healthy, but they certainly are still fat. Whereas smoking, on the other hand, is a choice, at least at first. Yes, it is addictive, but nobody has forced you to take that first cigarette, so there was a choice underlying the fact that the person started in the first place. And for me, that is the key difference. That's why I dislike smokers more than fat people.

 

[Craorach]

Really, as far as I'm concerned, smoking and being overweight are completely different.

One is an addiction to a substance that, by now, you'd basically have to live without contact with another human being to NOT know it's inherently unhealthy and a leading cause of some pretty terrible ways to die. It's not something that is given to people for any good reason by medical professionals, it's something you have to spend an insane sum of money on per year, and have to start consciously.

Being overweight can be caused by tons of different reasons.. these days, simply the fact that you go to work and don't do an active job, is a major cause. Ultimately, food is essential for us to live, people who are overweight (not people who are morbidly obese) are almost always just in that state because of circumstances.. not a concious decision to partake of a poisonous substance.

 

[alinos]

Clegane]

No but what about the doctors and nurses who have to care for these people when their obesity leads to complications? Not only is it an extreme physical strain on the nurses but is also a gross waste of a Doctors time (as it is so eminently avoidable).

Are we banning breast implant's and any other non life saving uses of doctor's time. Because that's what your arguing here.

your also ignoring gene's. Where one person can have a fucking awesome metabolism and eat 10 cheeseburger's a day and not gain any weight. While you can have another who's gene's just blatantly suck and without exercising daily will put on weight no matter what they eat.

Hell my brother is the former, he goes to an office job each day then comes home and veg's out on junk food. and then goes to bed. I haven't seen him do any exercise for month's.

And i'm the latter. If i don't exercise regularly, i'll put on weight no matter what i'm eating. Which considering most day's it's 2 slices of toast, a healthy sandwich a banana/apple. And then whatever i make for dinner.

I just have an absolutely shit metabolism, that basically ceases to function if i'm not doing a 5-10km run each day