Why Metal Gear Rising was Awful.

[Able Seacat]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

 

[rob_simple]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

I like how you keep sneaking these little posts in between quoted replies.

Yes, you're quite right: objectively speaking, 8 bit graphics are less realistic than 16 bit and up. But that does not make them worse in the context of video games.

Not all games strive for photo-realism. Games are, generally speaking, primarily about having fun and if 8 bit graphics can achieve that then they are perfectly fit for purpose.

Once again, you fail to grasp that there is little to nothing that is objectively good or bad when it comes to game design; it's all contextual.

 

[rob_simple]

It's been established why I compared MGR and why that proves its status as bad or good. I posted for intelligent discussion and was totally open to the idea of being wrong about the game... but of course I encountered people indirectly responding attacking me directly, not comprehending or reading previous posts, telling me to drop it, and Not knowing what they were getting into. I can budge you just need to provide some proof free of "I just think...etc." Tehcookie was the closest to stumping me and I had a few nice discussions. You think me evil simply because I hold an opposing stance...pro tip.. don't please I mean you no harm.

Yes, but all you established is what you think, not what is fact. I can't make it any simpler than that.

I don't think you're evil, I just think you're ignorant and maybe a bit elitist. I really don't mind if you don't enjoy MGR, but since I, and many others, do I can tell you that proves that it is not, objectively, a bad game.

I noticed you fell back on that tired old, 'lol u just mad you bought a bad game,' ignoring the fact that, generally speaking, most stores operate a thirty day return policy and, seeing as you can get through MGR in an afternoon, if I wasn't into the game I could have gone and got my money back the same day I bought it.

I bought the game. I like it. I think it's fun, and I think you are wrong to say it is objectively not, just because you didn't have fun with it. What is so hard to understand about this?

 

[zerkocelot]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

No but worse.. as driving is a large part of the game, unavoidable in fact (if you wish to complete it[complete its function]) if all this is more problematic that means the functionality is bad and the game is worse. Charm and other aspects may make it better for an individual however, no denying that.

 

[zerkocelot]

It's been established why I compared MGR and why that proves its status as bad or good. I posted for intelligent discussion and was totally open to the idea of being wrong about the game... but of course I encountered people indirectly responding attacking me directly, not comprehending or reading previous posts, telling me to drop it, and Not knowing what they were getting into. I can budge you just need to provide some proof free of "I just think...etc." Tehcookie was the closest to stumping me and I had a few nice discussions. You think me evil simply because I hold an opposing stance...pro tip.. don't please I mean you no harm.

Yes, but all you established is what you think, not what is fact. I can't make it any simpler than that.

I don't think you're evil, I just think you're ignorant and maybe a bit elitist. I really don't mind if you don't enjoy MGR, but since I, and many others, do I can tell you that proves that it is not, objectively, a bad game.

I noticed you fell back on that tired old, 'lol u just mad you bought a bad game,' ignoring the fact that, generally speaking, most stores operate a thirty day return policy and, seeing as you can get through MGR in an afternoon, if I wasn't into the game I could have gone and got my money back the same day I bought it.

I bought the game. I like it. I think it's fun, and I think you are wrong to say it is objectively not, just because you didn't have fun with it. What is so hard to understand about this?

See above post, other subjective factors round out the experience, I did later specify that the parry system is objectivly worse than other games (not the entire experience due to charm factors). However the parry system and its functionality are bad (work/ dont work objective observation) and I already discussed this, you assume my tone is condescending. but, its not stop with the hostility.

 

[Able Seacat]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

No but worse.. as driving is a large part of the game, unavoidable in fact (if you wish to complete it[complete its function]) if all this is more problematic that means the functionality is bad and the game is worse. Charm and other aspects may make it better for an individual however, no denying that.

So a better thread title would have been MGR is worse than these games?

And what if we add another mechanic into the mix and I said the shooting mechanic is better in Saints Row than GTA, which game is awful now?

 

[zerkocelot]

You misconstrue my judgement of worth as a sentence to oblivion (never said 8 bit games should die, never said you didnt have fun). You misconstrue a lot..

 

[TehCookie]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

I called you ignorant because you obviously don't understand it. I play fighting games, I beat the story mode in the first two Blazblue games and P4A, but that doesn't make me understand all the mechanics. I'm pretty shit at fighting games because I have trouble holding combos together and don't use any strategy beyond button mashing (or spamming Jin's ice car). So am I just as qualified as you to talk about fighting game mechanics because I played them? I'm pretty sure my ignorance could make your bang your head against a wall to escape it.

The game uses colors to tell you what you can and can't parry so you don't parry impossible attacks. Red is parryable, yellow is not, and blue is if the enemy counter parries if I recall correctly. That's why I called you ignorant. You don't know what the colors mean and whine that you don't know which attacks can be parried when it's right in front of you.

Since you're a fighting game fan, only using the stinger strategy is like only using hadouken. You work it into your combos and there's some attack you do after to keep from being hit right to make the move safer right? That's what it is. As for your direction problem, that's why I said aim. You can use knowledge from previous games to help you (like crates contain items) but don't expect it to play exactly like something else.

A lack of a good tutorial is a valid complaint. I'm not saying the game is perfect, so at least complain about the actual faults.

Ok maybe I am, but there are still more technical problems I encountered even when I executed something correctly, meaning not a fault of my own but of the game. I would argue a lot of people are justifying their purchase by defending the obviously poor mechanics. Theres still more I've listed as problems which you can address, but yes i concede I cant deny my ignorance of the array of colors and their largly unexplained properties.

If you don't like it because of the actual problems, I can't say anything about that. If you don't like it because it's not to your taste, that's fine too I'm not going to force you to like it. Even if it does have perfect mechanics you can still hate the game, I despise cover based shooters. It doesn't mean their gameplay is broken.

 

[zerkocelot]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

No but worse.. as driving is a large part of the game, unavoidable in fact (if you wish to complete it[complete its function]) if all this is more problematic that means the functionality is bad and the game is worse. Charm and other aspects may make it better for an individual however, no denying that.

So a better thread title would have been MGR is worse than these games?

And what if we add another mechanic into the mix and I said the shooting mechanic is better in Saints Row than GTA, which game is awful now?

The title is a general eye grabbing statement right.... the title should be my whole body if i need to be extremely specific. Like I said a lil earlier it becomes hard to judge an entire experience and subjectivity is involved. So yes I think its bad because the parrying is objectively bad. But I did prove that latter at least. You missed the bit where we talked epistemology and said comparison is the only way to judge things and find the truth...(hot/cold analogy) so saying the game is awful, it follows its worse than other games. Yes I see its muddled at this point and I should have made a more concise argument instead of ranting.

 

[zerkocelot]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

I called you ignorant because you obviously don't understand it. I play fighting games, I beat the story mode in the first two Blazblue games and P4A, but that doesn't make me understand all the mechanics. I'm pretty shit at fighting games because I have trouble holding combos together and don't use any strategy beyond button mashing (or spamming Jin's ice car). So am I just as qualified as you to talk about fighting game mechanics because I played them? I'm pretty sure my ignorance could make your bang your head against a wall to escape it.

The game uses colors to tell you what you can and can't parry so you don't parry impossible attacks. Red is parryable, yellow is not, and blue is if the enemy counter parries if I recall correctly. That's why I called you ignorant. You don't know what the colors mean and whine that you don't know which attacks can be parried when it's right in front of you.

Since you're a fighting game fan, only using the stinger strategy is like only using hadouken. You work it into your combos and there's some attack you do after to keep from being hit right to make the move safer right? That's what it is. As for your direction problem, that's why I said aim. You can use knowledge from previous games to help you (like crates contain items) but don't expect it to play exactly like something else.

A lack of a good tutorial is a valid complaint. I'm not saying the game is perfect, so at least complain about the actual faults.

Ok maybe I am, but there are still more technical problems I encountered even when I executed something correctly, meaning not a fault of my own but of the game. I would argue a lot of people are justifying their purchase by defending the obviously poor mechanics. Theres still more I've listed as problems which you can address, but yes i concede I cant deny my ignorance of the array of colors and their largly unexplained properties.

If you don't like it because of the actual problems, I can't say anything about that. If you don't like it because it's not to your taste, that's fine too I'm not going to force you to like it. Even if it does have perfect mechanics you can still hate the game, I despise cover based shooters. It doesn't mean their gameplay is broken.

I love fighting games, the mechanics in mgr are broken upon comparison to other functional games with similar characteristics. You like it? Great, can't deny. But, I was meaning to get into a more condenced focuses discussion and breakdown of the parrying system. (only one aspect of the game)

 

[rob_simple]

It's been established why I compared MGR and why that proves its status as bad or good. I posted for intelligent discussion and was totally open to the idea of being wrong about the game... but of course I encountered people indirectly responding attacking me directly, not comprehending or reading previous posts, telling me to drop it, and Not knowing what they were getting into. I can budge you just need to provide some proof free of "I just think...etc." Tehcookie was the closest to stumping me and I had a few nice discussions. You think me evil simply because I hold an opposing stance...pro tip.. don't please I mean you no harm.

Yes, but all you established is what you think, not what is fact. I can't make it any simpler than that.

I don't think you're evil, I just think you're ignorant and maybe a bit elitist. I really don't mind if you don't enjoy MGR, but since I, and many others, do I can tell you that proves that it is not, objectively, a bad game.

I noticed you fell back on that tired old, 'lol u just mad you bought a bad game,' ignoring the fact that, generally speaking, most stores operate a thirty day return policy and, seeing as you can get through MGR in an afternoon, if I wasn't into the game I could have gone and got my money back the same day I bought it.

I bought the game. I like it. I think it's fun, and I think you are wrong to say it is objectively not, just because you didn't have fun with it. What is so hard to understand about this?

See above post, other subjective factors round out the experience, I did later specify that the parry system is objectivly worse than other games (not the entire experience due to charm factors). However the parry system and its functionality are bad (work/ dont work objective observation) and I already discussed this, you assume my tone is condescending. but, its not stop with the hostility.

Oh give me strength, the parry system works fine, you just aren't good at it! I'm sorry but it's that simple. If I can do it, despite being shit at most games, then it is fit for purpose.

It's not objectively worse than anything, because different people like different things. I guarantee there are people who think MGR's parry system is the best they've ever used, and they'll have played the same games as you. They're not wrong, they just play games differently to how you do.

I'm not being hostile, I'm just trying to be clear: you do not understand the difference between your own opinion, which is constructed from your own, individual experiences, and what is an objective fact (i.e. something that cannot be disputed and is accepted by everyone).

Q.E.D.
8 bit graphics are not as detailed as 16 bit: FACT.
8 bit graphics are worse than 16 bit: OPINION.

 

[zerkocelot]

It's been established why I compared MGR and why that proves its status as bad or good. I posted for intelligent discussion and was totally open to the idea of being wrong about the game... but of course I encountered people indirectly responding attacking me directly, not comprehending or reading previous posts, telling me to drop it, and Not knowing what they were getting into. I can budge you just need to provide some proof free of "I just think...etc." Tehcookie was the closest to stumping me and I had a few nice discussions. You think me evil simply because I hold an opposing stance...pro tip.. don't please I mean you no harm.

Yes, but all you established is what you think, not what is fact. I can't make it any simpler than that.

I don't think you're evil, I just think you're ignorant and maybe a bit elitist. I really don't mind if you don't enjoy MGR, but since I, and many others, do I can tell you that proves that it is not, objectively, a bad game.

I noticed you fell back on that tired old, 'lol u just mad you bought a bad game,' ignoring the fact that, generally speaking, most stores operate a thirty day return policy and, seeing as you can get through MGR in an afternoon, if I wasn't into the game I could have gone and got my money back the same day I bought it.

I bought the game. I like it. I think it's fun, and I think you are wrong to say it is objectively not, just because you didn't have fun with it. What is so hard to understand about this?

See above post, other subjective factors round out the experience, I did later specify that the parry system is objectivly worse than other games (not the entire experience due to charm factors). However the parry system and its functionality are bad (work/ dont work objective observation) and I already discussed this, you assume my tone is condescending. but, its not stop with the hostility.

Oh give me strength, the parry system works fine, you just aren't good at it! I'm sorry but it's that simple. If I can do it, despite being shit at most games, then it is fit for purpose.

It's not objectively worse than anything, because different people like different things. I guarantee there are people who think MGR's parry system is the best they've ever used, and they'll have played the same games as you. They're not wrong, they just play games differently to how you do.

I'm not being hostile, I'm just trying to be clear: you do not understand the difference between your own opinion, which is constructed from your own, individual experiences, and what is an objective fact (i.e. something that cannot be disputed and is accepted by everyone).

Q.E.D.
8 bit graphics are not as detailed as 16 bit: FACT.
8 bit graphics are worse than 16 bit: OPINION.

You misunderstand again, I can parry...just like you, read original and some followup posts to see what about the parrying system is broken. You can parry in the game..its just flimsy and counteractive. Its not a general statement I talk about blockstun and parry/block as the same input etc... you have to read other posts you assume I'm saying one opinion based statement.

 

[TehCookie]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

I called you ignorant because you obviously don't understand it. I play fighting games, I beat the story mode in the first two Blazblue games and P4A, but that doesn't make me understand all the mechanics. I'm pretty shit at fighting games because I have trouble holding combos together and don't use any strategy beyond button mashing (or spamming Jin's ice car). So am I just as qualified as you to talk about fighting game mechanics because I played them? I'm pretty sure my ignorance could make your bang your head against a wall to escape it.

The game uses colors to tell you what you can and can't parry so you don't parry impossible attacks. Red is parryable, yellow is not, and blue is if the enemy counter parries if I recall correctly. That's why I called you ignorant. You don't know what the colors mean and whine that you don't know which attacks can be parried when it's right in front of you.

Since you're a fighting game fan, only using the stinger strategy is like only using hadouken. You work it into your combos and there's some attack you do after to keep from being hit right to make the move safer right? That's what it is. As for your direction problem, that's why I said aim. You can use knowledge from previous games to help you (like crates contain items) but don't expect it to play exactly like something else.

A lack of a good tutorial is a valid complaint. I'm not saying the game is perfect, so at least complain about the actual faults.

Ok maybe I am, but there are still more technical problems I encountered even when I executed something correctly, meaning not a fault of my own but of the game. I would argue a lot of people are justifying their purchase by defending the obviously poor mechanics. Theres still more I've listed as problems which you can address, but yes i concede I cant deny my ignorance of the array of colors and their largly unexplained properties.

If you don't like it because of the actual problems, I can't say anything about that. If you don't like it because it's not to your taste, that's fine too I'm not going to force you to like it. Even if it does have perfect mechanics you can still hate the game, I despise cover based shooters. It doesn't mean their gameplay is broken.

I love fighting games, the mechanics in mgr are broken upon comparison to other functional games with similar characteristics. You like it? Great, can't deny. But, I was meaning to get into a more condenced focuses discussion and breakdown of the parrying system. (only one aspect of the game)

You already hate it and refuse to learn it and keep comparing it to something radically different. Especially when you dislike the 3rd dimension part about the game. We'll get nowhere.

 

[Able Seacat]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

No but worse.. as driving is a large part of the game, unavoidable in fact (if you wish to complete it[complete its function]) if all this is more problematic that means the functionality is bad and the game is worse. Charm and other aspects may make it better for an individual however, no denying that.

So a better thread title would have been MGR is worse than these games?

And what if we add another mechanic into the mix and I said the shooting mechanic is better in Saints Row than GTA, which game is awful now?

The title is a general eye grabbing statement right.... the title should be my whole body if i need to be extremely specific. Like I said a lil earlier it becomes hard to judge an entire experience and subjectivity is involved. So yes I think its bad because the parrying is objectively bad. But I did prove that latter at least. You missed the bit where we talked epistemology and said comparison is the only way to judge things and find the truth...(hold/cold anology) so saying the game is awful, it follows its worse than other games. Yes I see its muddled at this point and I should have made a more concise argument instead of ranting.

So if I was to compare the combo length of MGR to Dark Souls, is MGR the better game?

 

[zerkocelot]

What I've read was it was awful because you couldn't parry. The difference between walking and parrying is holding down the stick in a direction or tapping the stick in a direction. I was annoyed at it at first because I couldn't parry either, I had to look up tips on how to actually do it. Once I got it down the game was great fun. Oh and if you need to end your attack animation to parry, blade mode cancel it.

Also if you know/aim your attacks, use lock on, and/or stop mashing buttons you don't zoom around everywhere. You complain there's no strategy, but you just refuse to use it. However the game doesn't tell you anything, you have to find it on your own. The stinger attack (forward, forward heavy) is a great attack to close distance, so while it does send you zooming it helps you control the battlefield. When you do a stinger if you dodge afterwards it cancels the ending animation and moves you out of harms way making the stinger a much better attack. I suck at air combat so I can't say much about it, but there's another strategy.

Yes the game is annoying since you have to be able to parry to play it properly, but if you're mashing buttons and refusing to learn the systems because it's not like another game, that's you. Not the game. Yet it still may not be your cup of tea, but you shouldn't ignorantly criticize it.

Pretty much this.

Many people have played through the game, and while you really do need to learn everything yourself, once you learn the ins and outs of parrying, dodging, blade mode cancels etc the game becomes quite fun.

And yeah, you really don't zoom around everywhere if you stop spamming buttons, and start linking combos and using specific attacks.

Plus, I don't know what you mean by "3000+ hours in fighting games", but if your talking about something like street fighter, yeah nah, completely different genres.

That would be like me saying "I can't play CoD even thought I have 3000+ hours in Starcraft 2."

Fighting games and action games with a block are very similar utilizing the blockstun/hitstun concepts.. also how can you call me ignorant when you can't deny the amount of randomly decided forward movement on most attacks and the stinger strategy would be slow and still allow for the problems of direction facing and parrying. The parrying was poorly executed it's very hard to deny that. Anyone know the difference between white flashing attacks red flashing attacks purple flashing attacks gold flashing attacks or blue flashing attacks? Which ones can I parry which are unblockable? It's poor, was fun for a bit but lazily put together not just in the lack of a tutorial but also in practice... Don't call me ignorant when I PLAYED THE GAME, it makes me as equally qualified as you...

I called you ignorant because you obviously don't understand it. I play fighting games, I beat the story mode in the first two Blazblue games and P4A, but that doesn't make me understand all the mechanics. I'm pretty shit at fighting games because I have trouble holding combos together and don't use any strategy beyond button mashing (or spamming Jin's ice car). So am I just as qualified as you to talk about fighting game mechanics because I played them? I'm pretty sure my ignorance could make your bang your head against a wall to escape it.

The game uses colors to tell you what you can and can't parry so you don't parry impossible attacks. Red is parryable, yellow is not, and blue is if the enemy counter parries if I recall correctly. That's why I called you ignorant. You don't know what the colors mean and whine that you don't know which attacks can be parried when it's right in front of you.

Since you're a fighting game fan, only using the stinger strategy is like only using hadouken. You work it into your combos and there's some attack you do after to keep from being hit right to make the move safer right? That's what it is. As for your direction problem, that's why I said aim. You can use knowledge from previous games to help you (like crates contain items) but don't expect it to play exactly like something else.

A lack of a good tutorial is a valid complaint. I'm not saying the game is perfect, so at least complain about the actual faults.

Ok maybe I am, but there are still more technical problems I encountered even when I executed something correctly, meaning not a fault of my own but of the game. I would argue a lot of people are justifying their purchase by defending the obviously poor mechanics. Theres still more I've listed as problems which you can address, but yes i concede I cant deny my ignorance of the array of colors and their largly unexplained properties.

If you don't like it because of the actual problems, I can't say anything about that. If you don't like it because it's not to your taste, that's fine too I'm not going to force you to like it. Even if it does have perfect mechanics you can still hate the game, I despise cover based shooters. It doesn't mean their gameplay is broken.

I love fighting games, the mechanics in mgr are broken upon comparison to other functional games with similar characteristics. You like it? Great, can't deny. But, I was meaning to get into a more condenced focuses discussion and breakdown of the parrying system. (only one aspect of the game)

You already hate it and refuse to learn it and keep comparing it to something radically different. Especially when you dislike the 3rd dimension part about the game. We'll get nowhere.

Never said the 3rd dimension is the problem I play other 3d fighters and dont encounter camera and the other listed problems. I assure you these games are not radically different...combos, blocking, dodging... its all there.

 

[rob_simple]

You misunderstand again, I can parry...just like you, read original and some followup posts to see what about the parrying system is broken. You can parry in the game..its just flimsy and counteractive. Its not a general statement I talk about blockstun and parry/block as the same input etc... you have to read other posts you assume I'm saying one opinion based statement.

It is flimsy and counteractive in your opinion. Some of us think it works perfectly fine, so either you are telling us we are all idiots or you just can't accept a fundamental truth that some people like how the game works and you don't. I have read your posts and all I take away from them is that you don't like this game because it's not like other games you do like.

That is completely different from it being a bad game. As I said waaaaaay back in my first post in this thread, if you actually bothered to watch videos on Youtube and see the masters in action, you'd maybe learn how to use the games mechanics to your advantage instead of just complaining that they're broken when they don't work how you, personally, think they should.

 

[zerkocelot]

Theres another way to prove objectivity in games, 8 bit games are simpler (less pixels) therefore worse reflect real life. So 8bit games are objectivly less realistic than anything higher resolution. Objective fact.

That doesn't make 8 bit games awful. Your argument against MGR is that the parry system and camera is worse than other games therefore it is a bad game. What if I said the driving in GTA is better than in Saints Row, does that mean Saints Row is an awful game?

No but worse.. as driving is a large part of the game, unavoidable in fact (if you wish to complete it[complete its function]) if all this is more problematic that means the functionality is bad and the game is worse. Charm and other aspects may make it better for an individual however, no denying that.

So a better thread title would have been MGR is worse than these games?

And what if we add another mechanic into the mix and I said the shooting mechanic is better in Saints Row than GTA, which game is awful now?

The title is a general eye grabbing statement right.... the title should be my whole body if i need to be extremely specific. Like I said a lil earlier it becomes hard to judge an entire experience and subjectivity is involved. So yes I think its bad because the parrying is objectively bad. But I did prove that latter at least. You missed the bit where we talked epistemology and said comparison is the only way to judge things and find the truth...(hold/cold anology) so saying the game is awful, it follows its worse than other games. Yes I see its muddled at this point and I should have made a more concise argument instead of ranting.

So if I was to compare the combo length of MGR to Dark Souls, is MGR the better game?

Combo length is not specificly a relevant aspect of gameplay... it's balanced within the context of the fighting system. Some games have longer combos (Mvc3) some much shorter (ssf4) the only difference is the amount of time the comboed person is waiting in hitstun. In mgr hitstun is non standardized, non effective, and sometimes non existant. All depending on the specific attacks of the specific enemies. Then you have unblockables, all while fighting multiple enemies. This makes for hundreds of thousands of combinations of defensive tactics needed to escape the situations, unlike in dark souls where chaining a couple dashes would generally keep you out of harm. MGR has people doing teleports and sonic speed dashing slashes all fucking with your directional input defense mechanism. Convoluted and not cohesive to learning.

 

[zerkocelot]

You misunderstand again, I can parry...just like you, read original and some followup posts to see what about the parrying system is broken. You can parry in the game..its just flimsy and counteractive. Its not a general statement I talk about blockstun and parry/block as the same input etc... you have to read other posts you assume I'm saying one opinion based statement.

It is flimsy and counteractive in your opinion. Some of us think it works perfectly fine, so either you are telling us we are all idiots or you just can't accept a fundamental truth that some people like how the game works and you don't. I have read your posts and all I take away from them is that you don't like this game because it's not like other games you do like.

That is completely different from it being a bad game. As I said waaaaaay back in my first post in this thread, if you actually bothered to watch videos on Youtube and see the masters in action, you'd maybe learn how to use the games mechanics to your advantage instead of just complaining that they're broken when they don't work how you, personally, think they should.

Not about the games I like, its about the functionality, and I get really specific (see my last post) you would need to respond to each of these points like able sea cat instead of trying to tell me off with one line.

 

[bfranciscop]

Your position is that you didn't bother to learn to play, and therefore didn't enjoy the game. And that's a completely valid reason for not enjoying a game, it is how I felt about smash bros after all. But equating this to an objetive assessment is ridiculous. Some of the reasons why you think the game is bad, are reasons why think the game is good. This is the definition of a subjetive opinion, which is all you've given us.

For example, you state that the game is bad because it doesn't have a standard block, instead relying on parry. I would be tempted to say that the parry system is one of the reasons the game is good, but then I would be falling into the same pitfalls you did. I _enjoyed_ the parry system, while you _disliked_ it, is a more honest appraisal.

The parry and dodge system in the game does exactly what it's supposed to: allow you to defend against every possible attack in the game, assuming you have learned to use them effectively. Claiming that it's 'broken' or 'nonfunctional' because you haven't learned to use it properly is disingenuous.

There are no "unfair unblockable offscreen attacks", there is only "I failed to keep track of all the enemies, allowed one of them to get out of my field of view, and attack me from there". Positional awareness is not a skill you develop from 2d fighting games, since they feature a single opponent and a fixed camera.

I'm going to close with one of your statements here, because it perfectly summarizes everything:
"Dark Souls being a perfect example (blocking, parrying, dodging all based on stamina) I understood why I would lose a fight and why I would win in that game, unlike MG Rising."
In MG Rising you did not understand why you would lose a fight, and this is a frustrating experience. However, the fault of that lies within you, not the game, because other people did learn the game's systems. In MGR when I lost a fight, I understood why I lost it. Conversely, a friend of mine was playing Dark Souls, and grew increasingly frustrated because he did not comprehend the system, and was frequently defeated with no apparent reason. He was about to drop the game in disgust, until I gave him a few explanations on how to play, after that he started enjoying the game.

 

[Able Seacat]

snip

Combo length is not specificly a relevant aspect of gameplay... it's balanced within the context of the fighting system. Some games have longer combos (Mvc3) some much shorter (ssf4) the only difference is the amount of time the comboed person is waiting in hitstun. In mgr hitstun is non standardized, non effective, and sometimes non existant. All depending on the specific attacks of the specific enemies. Then you have unblockables, all while fighting multiple enemies. This makes for hundreds of thousands of combinations of defensive tactics needed to escape the situations, unlike in dark souls where chaining a couple dashes would generally keep you out of harm. MGR has people doing teleports and sonic speed dashing slashes all fucking with you directional input defense mechanism. Convoluted and not cohesive to learning.

MGR is a hack n' slash game so I would argue the parry system in context to the game is adequate and does not need to be as precise as the games you are comparing it to.