Why Movies Suck Now Part Two: The Reality

[Altherix]

Wow, #2 sounds completely like an elitist snob there, "We're not the problem, you're the problem because your just too stupid to get it...etc"

Do yourself a favor MovieBob, get off Transformer's ass because it's honestly getting old and you're sounding more and more like a spoiled child having a temper tantrum.

People go to movies for one reason, "To be entertained" not to get smarter or have their brain tickled. Oh, it's great when movies can be entertaining AND make you go, "Huh, I never thought of that before" problem is most people have a life outside of movies, so don't have time for it nor want it at the theater.

#6, disagree with your thoughts, but the statement is correct, there's been crap produced throughout all of human history. Probably during caveman times there were bad shadow puppet performances. Although if something sucked the actor(s) were beaten to death for it...might want to bring that back.

 

[Artheval_Pe]

I go to movies to be entertained, I am not a movie geek, but I can't stand when a movie just blatantly insults its audience with a stupid story, atrocious visual design, poor characters and bad dialog.

When I saw the first Transformers, I just paused all the time thinking "That scene is useless" "That dialog doesn't make sense" "That's lazy writing" "That's unbelievable". A movie doesn't work well when the suspension of disbelief is lost.

 

[fullbleed]

Very good list but can't really comment on number 4 as I'm not sure how different American cinemas are to British cinemas, we don't really have many independent or small cinemas at all, it's basicly big nationwide chains like Cineworld and Odeon so most of the problems with 4 don't seem apparent. It also means that they never take risks at all and if it's not a sure fire hit they it just wont get shown at all. In the UK the problem isn't getting your film made as there's even the BFI and nation lottery fund which will fund british films, it's getting your film seen by anyone. Bizzarely a film can have a huge nationwide advertising budget and then a tiny release, like whats the point in telling everyone about your film and then not showing it to them?

I think number 1# is the real issue here and absolutely right, I would also like to add that "All Hollywood cares about is the Summer". Hollywood has forever been trying to replicate the Jaws success of the Hollywood blockbuster and the sheer glut of films at this time is harming theaters. Even a heavily antipcipated and relatively well received film such as Predators wont make much of an impact beyond the box office weekend takings because the very next week you've got Inception and Toy Story 3 coming out, and then after that you've the A-Team, and then there'll be something after that and so on. There's too many films around this time for them to get any decent screen time before being moved on for the next one. This year has been particularly bad because of the World Cup, because no one wants to release a male orientated film during this time (i.e. most films) as everyone will be in the pub watching the game.

EDIT:
Although that said, I don't like film dubs. You know why? Becuase they ussually suck. It can work in anime esspecially if it's something like studio gibli which is owned by Disney so they can afford to get great voice in those films. But when it comes to live action foreign films the vast majority of the time they wont have to budget to hire english voice actors or to dub it. Subtitles are an easy low cost solution and personaly vastly prefferable to dubs, it never matches with the lip movement and that is always a big turn off for me. And besides it's not hard to read subtitles, you wont actually miss anything and I'm a really slow reader.

Anyone seen the new series of the IT Crowd?
"I can't read when I'm also trying to see things!"

Yeah... IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD TO READ AND WATCH THE SCREEN YOU SIMPLETONS!

Honestly compared to some of the mumbly american accents you get in films these day I find it easy to follow subtitles than american films.

 

[warmonkey]

God.. one thing I cannot stand: subtitle snobbery.

I'm here to watch a movie, not read a book.

So... I assume you don't like subs cuz your lips get's tired?

Two things.
First, this sort of snobbery is precisely what I was referencing. "Ololol, you dont like subs, you're retarded".
No, I just want to properly experience the movie -- hearing the lines spoken, and watching the movie. Not hearing the movie, and watching the lines spoken.
Second, you insult my intelligence and, of course, make some pretty basic errors within your insult. Nice.

 

[webchameleon]

The whole article was "snobby". Why are you all just so hung-up on people who just think subtitles are/aren't better than dubbs (rhetorical question)?

 

[MightyLB]

On point #6: In the newer editions of the board game "Balderdash", you're given the title to an actual film and then have to create a plausible plot summary. Given that the game has about 200 or more Q & A cards, that's a lot of forgotten films, and upon reading the actual plot summaries you can kind of see why.

 

[Aulleas123]

Wow, this article didn't really tell me anything new. You're still super-leftwing; you still kinda come off as snobbish; and you're a guy who doesn't really grasp the "normal" people. Before you suggest that the "normal" person is dumb, uneducated, and will never amount to anything useful in our world, realize that it's these "normal" people are our doctors, teachers, professors, statisticians, researchers, engineers, writers, journalists, firefighters, cops, soldiers, officers, economists, construction workers, architects, administrators, designers, lawyers, chefs, EMTs, retailers, IT guys, and yes the mail room guys. To me, these "normal" people seem to bring more to the world than the movie producers and actors do. If you think I'm wrong, check and see how long the world would last without the "normal" people, and just the Hollywood elites, who BTW, get most of their money from overseas DVD sales, not from Joe Sixpack.

If movies have always sucked, why do you still watch them and critique them? I think if you have this viewpoint, you should really change your career.

 

[yanipheonu]

It's a little naive to think movies are worse now than they were before. Frankly, they're almost exactly same more or less, there was always a sea of shit with a few great movies floating to the top, and a few hidden under the surface. That hasn't changed at all really.

 

[hexFrank202]

Well, we could deal with #4 by phasing out theathers, and quick question. Do you include yourself under those elitist snobs, or is it everyone but you? Because if you don't, well, that sounds pretty egotistical to me. Personally, I like intelligent movies, but I also like unintelligent ones. The Transformers films are the Painkiller or Saints Row 2 of movies. They aren't intelligent, they're fun. I don't go to see them to see a good plot, I go for giant robot fights that melt ILM computers.

THANK YOU. I am SO sick of hearing Bob talk about Transformers. Even if I agreed with him, I'd be sick of hearing it by now. You're absolutely right: he can't go around pointing fingers at 'know-it-all movie nerds' and be one at the same time. Movies suck nowadays because Transformers is so successful? That's an opinion. And don't think Bob gets away with this just because he says "I'm not saying 'you' are an idiot, I'm saying 'we' are idiots".

 

[hexFrank202]

It's a little naive to think movies are worse now than they were before. Frankly, they're almost exactly same more or less, there was always a sea of shit with a few great movies floating to the top, and a few hidden under the surface. That hasn't changed at all really.

You... didn't actually read the article, did you?

 

[yanipheonu]

It's a little naive to think movies are worse now than they were before. Frankly, they're almost exactly same more or less, there was always a sea of shit with a few great movies floating to the top, and a few hidden under the surface. That hasn't changed at all really.

You... didn't actually read the article, did you?

I read it. What are you getting at? 0_o

 

[warmonkey]

Why are you all just so hung-up on people who just think subtitles are/aren't better than dubbs (rhetorical question)?

Because people who think subtitles are better are insane. They are rabid fanboys. I've never met a rational person who favored subtitles.

If you prefer subs, and mention that to someone who does not, they'll say "Huh. Yeah, no, I don't like subtitles. I don't like having to read while I'm trying to watch a movie."

Reverse the roles and you get, as has been illustrated by several people in this thread in fact, an angry reaction extolling the purity and overall superiority of subtitles and a heavy-handed denigration of both dubbed movies and those who prefer them, painting the entire exercise and crowd as nothing but a bunch of dirt-scrabbling morons clearly suffering from severe mental disabilities.

Throw in that subtitle snobs have a heavy overlap with overly enthusiastic anime fans and all *their* requisite annoying habits.. yeah. I don't like subtitled movies, but I don't hate them. I *do* hate the subtitle snobs. They're obnoxious.

Not hard to dub a movie. Get a good translation, and get people to read it who understand what's going on -- people who aren't going to repeat things monotone. Actually, a lot of the old kung fu movies did a pretty good job of that. SURE, it looks funny, the lips don't match up.. but so what? I don't want to pretend it's not a foreign movie, I just want to understand the movie. Not be assaulted by languages I don't know (and have no intention of learning -- and yeah, give me a break subtitle snobs. none of you are actually learning japanese. you will not become conversant by watching subtitled anime. don't lie to yourself).

In short: Subtitled movies? Not a fan. No big deal, but not a fan. I prefer dubs.
Subtitle snobs? Full of pomposity and elitism, with absolutely no justifiable reason

 

[Aurgelmir]

oh reason #1 I so agree with.

I mean when you only base the success of a movie on its first weekend, at least when all that "wins" is the #1 that weekend. Hell this is how "Passion of the Christ" became such a big "hit", mainly due to its mega hype around how "gruesome" it was.

But how well did the DVD sell?

 

[RestamSalucard]

It's a little naive to think movies are worse now than they were before. Frankly, they're almost exactly same more or less, there was always a sea of shit with a few great movies floating to the top, and a few hidden under the surface. That hasn't changed at all really.

You... didn't actually read the article, did you?

I read it. What are you getting at? 0_o

Hello? Point 6 would like to have a word with you. Please put some thought into what you're saying before you post something stupid.

 

[Treblaine]

+1 for Sturgeons Law.

I once had a chat with a particularly livid Manager of a video games store who was frustrated that not every single game that is released turns a profit. I of course disagreed as a huge proportion of games released are utter crap, shovel-ware, rip-offs of licensed-movie cash ins but he was insistent that even the worst games should turn a profit "because they put in the effort and money" and he used that as justification for ALL his pricing practices and pre-order deals in his store.

I ended it there and vowed never to shop there again, till I realised how many other stores felt the same way, the sense of entitlement that every game they buy should sell out.

Steam and Amazon for my games from now on. Retail stores are as fucked up as the cinema chains.

 

[Treblaine]

Because people who think subtitles are better are insane. They are rabid fanboys. I've never met a rational person who favored subtitles.

Depends how good the dubs is and even WHICH dub.

For example the American dub of Akira is all kinds of awesome, but the British dub is WEAK SAUCE! They gave the psychic children pussy ass home-counties accents, it was like Christopher Robin was going on a bike ride.

Another example of great dubs is Metal Gear Solid. Solid Snake's iconic voice provided by David Hayter is an "evil corrupting dub" that somehow "bastardises the original work".

No. This reminds me of Leonard Nimoy and his "I am not Spock" and "I AM Spock" autobiographies. Initially he was frustrated at his role of Spock as being and unwilling puppet, only later her realised that he was CONTRIBUTING in COLLABORATION with the auteur of the work.

It's like that with dubs. Subtitles you are just puppetry of the source material with a dull transcription. Dubbing ADDS something to the work, almost all works of art are collaborative, even without consultation of the "auteur" (god I hate auteur-theory).

I am in favour of GOOD dubs. Subs are a cop-out as they are pretty much impossible to screw up.

 

[Treblaine]

Spoiler: alegations of leftism

Wow, this article didn't really tell me anything new. You're still super-leftwing; you still kinda come off as snobbish; and you're a guy who doesn't really grasp the "normal" people. Before you suggest that the "normal" person is dumb, uneducated, and will never amount to anything useful in our world, realize that it's these "normal" people are our doctors, teachers, professors, statisticians, researchers, engineers, writers, journalists, firefighters, cops, soldiers, officers, economists, construction workers, architects, administrators, designers, lawyers, chefs, EMTs, retailers, IT guys, and yes the mail room guys. To me, these "normal" people seem to bring more to the world than the movie producers and actors do. If you think I'm wrong, check and see how long the world would last without the "normal" people, and just the Hollywood elites, who BTW, get most of their money from overseas DVD sales, not from Joe Sixpack.

If movies have always sucked, why do you still watch them and critique them? I think if you have this viewpoint, you should really change your career.

Is it really "super-left-wing" to be elitist and say that everyone is moronic. That is an very RIGHT WING perspective!

Remember it is Hollywood that is super-lefty, which Movie-bob continually rails against. This guy plays video games, that automatically makes him more right-wing than most (Violence and competition are the over-riding elements of video games that conservatives love and liberals hate, who'd rather just sit in a circle and sing kum-bay-ah)

It's called lowest common denominator, you pretty much HAVE to dumb down to go mainstream or at least can't make it too smart. You seem to be quite selective about that you read so I will repeat what moviebob has already made clear "a person is smart, but people are stupid".

(also, seriously, could I have a source on your claim that Hollywood studios "get most of their money from overseas DVD sales" as even if that is true I'd seriously have to investigate any caveats such as the difference between revenue and actual income)

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Regarding point #3 (or part of it): I am not a film geek and I don't watch very many movies, but your point about martial arts films is absurd. We usually don't even get the whole film (the movie released here as "Hero" is at least half an hour longer in China and much better for it), most classics aren't available at all, entire soundtracks are often replaced, subtitles are inaccurate, dumbed down ("Hero" is also a much more intelligent film in China), and skip whole lines. Dubs are usually just as bad and terribly acted to boot, missing subtleties like regional dialects (English has no equivalent to the way Chinese dialects work) and detracting from the believability of many films (less important in an action movie, but a dub of "blind Shaft" or any other more realistic and cultural work would destroy the believability of the film). I don't mind if people want to make them for the theater or keep them around as a joke for old-times sake, but I study Chinese (the nuances of which do not translate into English very well) and I want to see and hear these movies as they were actually made, an option which is still rarely available to me legally (When I took an introductory course in Chinese film, more than half of what we watched were old VHS tapes the professor had brought over from China because no proper R1 DVD existed).

 

[yanipheonu]

It's a little naive to think movies are worse now than they were before. Frankly, they're almost exactly same more or less, there was always a sea of shit with a few great movies floating to the top, and a few hidden under the surface. That hasn't changed at all really.

You... didn't actually read the article, did you?

I read it. What are you getting at? 0_o

Hello? Point 6 would like to have a word with you. Please put some thought into what you're saying before you post something stupid.

I know. I was stating my opinion, which happens to be similar to that point. Nothing wrong with that is there, buddy?

Dumbass.

 

[adafuns]

Why are you all just so hung-up on people who just think subtitles are/aren't better than dubbs (rhetorical question)?

Because people who think subtitles are better are insane. They are rabid fanboys. I've never met a rational person who favored subtitles.

If you prefer subs, and mention that to someone who does not, they'll say "Huh. Yeah, no, I don't like subtitles. I don't like having to read while I'm trying to watch a movie."

Reverse the roles and you get, as has been illustrated by several people in this thread in fact, an angry reaction extolling the purity and overall superiority of subtitles and a heavy-handed denigration of both dubbed movies and those who prefer them, painting the entire exercise and crowd as nothing but a bunch of dirt-scrabbling morons clearly suffering from severe mental disabilities.

Throw in that subtitle snobs have a heavy overlap with overly enthusiastic anime fans and all *their* requisite annoying habits.. yeah. I don't like subtitled movies, but I don't hate them. I *do* hate the subtitle snobs. They're obnoxious.

Not hard to dub a movie. Get a good translation, and get people to read it who understand what's going on -- people who aren't going to repeat things monotone. Actually, a lot of the old kung fu movies did a pretty good job of that. SURE, it looks funny, the lips don't match up.. but so what? I don't want to pretend it's not a foreign movie, I just want to understand the movie. Not be assaulted by languages I don't know (and have no intention of learning -- and yeah, give me a break subtitle snobs. none of you are actually learning japanese. you will not become conversant by watching subtitled anime. don't lie to yourself).

In short: Subtitled movies? Not a fan. No big deal, but not a fan. I prefer dubs.
Subtitle snobs? Full of pomposity and elitism, with absolutely no justifiable reason

You want a reasonable reason on why we think that subs are better than dubbs? Ok here's one, voice acting. The real reason people dont like dubbs after they have gotten so used to the subbs, is because in the united states voice actors(with the exception of a few) are paid absolute shit. Practicaly minimum wage and because of this the dubbs for many things, especialy anime, are not professionally done. The actors dont care to try to act and barely show any emotion in their voices compared to the original.

Perhaps you can look past that and if that's you then great man. More power to you, but I cant, since voice acting is important to me in characterization and delivery. In japan, talking about anime strictly since when it comes to subs its what I really know, the voice actors over there are paid better and even get considered for the role in advance before the animation is usually made so that the characters fit the voice better. I understand the not reading part but after a while you don't notice, but like I said, if you cant get passed this then its fine, that's you.

Am I saying that subs are better than dubs? IMHO, yes, because like I said most dubs are poorly done. If they were professionally done then I would most likely prefer my anime dubed. For example, the Miyazaki films usually have really good voice actors and with his films I prefer then dubbed. Like with Howl's moving castle, I found it surreal to find out that motherfucking BATMAN(Christian Bale) does the voice of the main character who is basically a feminine looking wizard. Another example is Cowboy bebop and Ghost in a shell. Both wonderfully done, the voices match the characters, and the voice actors act really good, plus as an added bonus it turns out Conan O' Brian and Andy Richter did voice work for Ghost in a shell which blew my fucking mind when I found out. If more dubs were like this then I wouldn't have this bias.

As for learning another language just watching subs. You'd be surprised on how much you can pick up once you get the hang of reading while watching/hearing. I'm not saying that you would become fluent, because that's ridiculous, but its a fine starting point and Ive meet many who learned English watching subbed movies, it helps. I understand that snobs are annoying, but I hope you are not forming your opinion based on only those individuals. Remember we tend to only remember certain details and certain people we meet and it just so happens that the snobs/idiots are the loudest and the ones who stick out the most. Either way to each their own.