Why must people try to assume a position of moral authority based on the silliest things?

[Aerodyamic]

Anyone who deliberately gets on a metaphorical high horse and parade around on it frankly deserves to be pushed off it. So, yes, I agree.

I really don't think anyone was on their high horse in those threads.

This just looks like the OP is trying to make excuses for doing something he enjoys. Mostly via finger pointing.

Did you read any of the threads over the last month that concern smoking? I'd guessing that you had too many other, important things to do to bother. Let me give you examples from the 'poll without a poll' from the other day:

Your poll's missing a poll. And personally, I find it disgusting. I have friends who smoke, and I won't call them out on it or anything, but I do really wish they'd give it up. It's just a really filthy habit and anyone who does smoke is risking their life, the lives of those around them when they smoke, and are basically perpetuating and supporting an industry that does so much harm to people and profits from causing ill health in others.

Smoking is disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. I don't quite understand what stupid idiot introduced something so terrible into our society. My mom smokes. It's awful. She coughs all the time and my teachers at school were concerned about me because my clothes always smell like smoke until I told them that my mom smokes. I hate it. *Sniff* OK, now my eyes are watering. Smoking's always been a touchy subject. I know what it does to people. It, to me, is a complete disregard for common sense. I'm... concerned, y'know? Millions of people are suffering. Tortured. Having their lives controlled by tobacco. Throwing away thousands of dollars just to satisfy a craving that will, eventually, in some way or another, kill them. There have been many, many people who have lots loved ones to the cigar or cigarette. I just hope that I won't be the next one to lose someone...

Yellowed teeth, foul breath, acrid smoke. Yeeeeaaaaaah, no way that's attractive. Oh, did I mention the death?

These are the people I'm talking about. However, since you brought it up, nowhere do I 'justify' my bad habit; I do point out that I'm by no means as great a danger to the fabric of space and time as many other people, and yet I'm treated as though I have a penis covered with seeping boils growing from the middle of my forehead by people on these forums.

Funny, I don't ever shirk from admitting that my habit is unhealthy, but maybe I should point out that I'm an industrial roofer. Guess what the prevailing cause of death among roofers is?
Lung cancer. Lung cancer from inhaling fumes that are produced by the products we use to make roofs water-tight.

I think life is going to kill me before my cigarettes do, and I'm also obliging when people are willing to be adults about requests that I smoke in a way or place that won't cause immediate respiratory distress responses. For instance, asthma attacks, severe allergies, children or elderly being present, and the like.

Finally, I'm completely aware of the health risks associated with my smoking, but are you aware that if you walked up to me on the street and harassed me about smoking, you'd be accepting health risks too? Think about all those cars zipping by, producing exhaust, and tell me that it's so much healthier to breathe those fumes, which are being produced in much more massive quantities than my second hand smoke.

Oh the hilarity. Not on the subject matter but the way you 'censored' our names. We still get notified because you left the numbers in. and they can just click the links to find otu who said it. Might as well not bother putting xxxxxx in.

OT: what? I listed the reasons I don't think smoking is attractive. That isn't a high horse.[/i] It's just a horse. You know, because even if a person didn't smoke, I wouldn't find it attractive if they had acrid breath or yellow teeth. Would you? It's just that this horse knows that smoking causes that in pretty much all cases.

IT'S NOT A FUCKING HIGH HORSE TO HAVE AN OPINION ON WHAT YOU THINK IS ATTRACTIVE.

I left the numbers is so that people could verify that the quotes existed, and weren't made of whole cloth. And your tone was patronizing. Defensive much, or just pissed at being called out? Besides, coffee can cause worse teeth staining and breath.

snip snap

I'm going to address the attempt to debate my point about outside, first: Cars. Trucks. Industry. They all produce more airborne pollutants than I do, or than any 100 smokers, all madly puffing away do. I'm not going to have a major impact on the health of most people around me, in an outdoor location, relative to other sources of pollutants, or at all, if you consider the rate at which any airborne particulate disperses into the air. We're not talking about sarin gas, which requires a minuscule ppm count to kill, we're talking about something that's already in the ppm's, before it even comes BACK from my lungs.

Also, if second hand smoke could cause instantaneous cancer, natural selection would have instantly prevented a lot of individuals from passing on that problematic gene.

And then there's the 'smokers only smoke when they're packed in with non-smokers like sardines in a can': I actually try to avoid those situations, in that if I REALLY want to have a smoke, I'll move to a downwind position, so that the smoke doesn't even carry towards the non-smokers.

Firstly, you cannot compare Cars to smoking. That's like comparing videogames to drugs.

Secondly;
Well that is fine then. If you move away, then I don't care at all what you do (unless you're doing some drugs of course <.<).

Actually, I can compare cares to cigarettes, since cars produce TONNES of pollutants. Hell even a feedlot full of cows or pigs will produce more pollutants in a year than a smoker will in 2 lifetimes.

In fact, I can compare the massive amounts of pollutants our society produces to cigarettes quite handily, since the coal-fires in China are expected to burn for millenia, and produce more carbon monoxide than all of human history. How much pollution do the coal-fires in the continental US produce in a given year, and how much of it is carried downwind to cause negative health impacts on the unsuspecting and undeserving?

UNLESS your cigarretes actually are coal-fires, you CANNOT compare these two because they are wildly diversed things.

I can punch the smoker in the face for blowing smoke in anyones face, but I can't punch the driver for driving his/hers car to work.

You're welcome to TRY to punch me in the face, but that's neither here nor there; the fact remains that most smokers are more aware of the health risks of their habit than most drivers. And you can, in fact, punch a driver in the face, if you catch them at a red light.

In fact, the fact that you're willing to ignore the fact that there are other forms of pollution that vastly outweigh smoking, as far as their health impact is concerned makes me think that you're sadly misinformed, willfully ignorant, or a hypocrite. My smoking affects me, primary and with much greater impact than it affects anyone else, because I choose to have as minimal an impact on other as I reasonably can. A car is indiscriminate in the way it produces; you start your car, you begin polluting, period.

-snip-

You missed the other reason people hate smokers, it smells. I ask people who are carrying babies with wet diapers to move away from me. If some homeless guy who smelled like B.O and piss was standing next to you wouldn't you ask them to move?

Do you wear cologne or perfume? Maybe I'll think your choice of fragrance, that you may have paid a great deal of money for, is offensive, but I'll politely ask you to not stand upwind, or wear quite so much next time. Most people are more offensive in their conversations with smokers, concerning the smoke, than many racists are, when screaming profanities about minorities, in my experience.

And honestly, it would depend on why that homeless person was standing beside me. If he was waiting in line at a food bank, or waiting to use a restroom to try to wash up a little, I'd probably be willing to cut him some slack, since most homeless people don't exactly have the means to single-handedly elevate their position. That's another topic, though.

All you're doing is desperately trying to defend your habit by trying to provide broken counter-arguments.

Stop trying to defend it and just accept it.

I will say no more.

The arguments aren't broken, sweet-cheeks, society is. If you can't accept that your choices could be as easily offensive as anyone elses', you're a hypocrite. plain and simple. I'll at least try to understand WHY there's a smelly homeless man standing near me, or try to reasonably discuss MY smoking with someone else. You can't even do that, you just assume that any viewpoint that doesn't match your own is incorrect.

Smoking is bad, right?
So is driving a car.

They both pollute, and any single car pollutes more than a smoker will. Simple enough? Or should I point out that BP is polluting more right now than all the smokers in the history of the world ever have? Or that my smoking won't ever compare to the environmental damage done by various above and below-ground nuclear tests?

You apparently don't get it; a smoker has less impact on other peoples health than so many other things, and yet I'm demonized so forcefully, I almost expect to be branded with a scarlet letter 'S'.

You can exercise your right to dislike my habit, and you can choose to approach me rationally and politely, or I can exercise my right to tell you to talk a long walk off a short pier, when you choose to be inconsiderate.

Even assuming your interpretation of the situation is correct that would be hypocrisy not irony.

It would be hypocrisy from a personal standpoint, yes, but from a situational standpoint it's irony.

Were you planning to contribute something more than a discussion of semantics? This thread is a response to a recurring series of threads, and while it MAY be ironic, it's actually completely relevant. I'm asking people to demonstrate some courtesy, just the same as I try to random individuals in public. I'm also trying to highlight the general hypocrisy of people that live in industrialized countries, claiming that smoking is horrid; so obesity, but I don't see any threads about that, simply because obesity has no immediate and direct second-hand health impacts. It still kills more people than smoking does.

And let's remind the kids at home: Irony is the exact opposite of what should be. For example, a diabetic who gets killed be a truck carrying insulin, while going to get a chocolate bar to normalize his blood-sugar? Well, THAT'S ironic. That Alanis Morrisette song? Not really ironic, more along the lines of a series of really crappy days.

 

[schroing]

Obviously, that doesn't apply here. Do you think that 'textual abuse' is a thing?

That's your arguement? That I used 'verbal' to describe the written word? Way to focus on the point. Are you saying text can't contain insulting and abusive words?

So you believe in, say, cyberbullying?

It's not a case of believing in it yourself. It's a case of the thousands of moronic school girls who take all forms of communication so seriously that they suicide etc.

Besides scale, what exactly differentiates the OP from this? He read some opinions that he didn't like, they got through his skin and he took them personally. Instead of committing suicide, he's just angry (or at least hostile).

 

[Miumaru]

Thats like saying none of us should ever be unhappy because people are starving in Africa.

 

[Agayek]

Didn't know that unborn fetuses can survive and move outside their smoking mother, and I didn't realise that babies can move from the man smoking in the restaurant.

I'll agree that bothering you about it is extremely annoying, but if your smoking in a public place with children around I'd be annoyed too, you seem sensible enough to where your not so your harming anyone thus nobody has the right to ***** to you.

I don't smoke, I find it to be a, to be frank, disgusting habit, and I've had a bit too much experience with cancer to even be tempted to do start.

As for your points:

1) It is the responsibility of the parents, and no one else, to ensure the health of their child. That means taking the proper precautions during pregnancy, and exercising control of their children in public places. No one else is responsible for that. If they choose to expose their children to such things, it's probably for the best. That way, we might actually be able to evolve past the astonishing level of stupidity/lack of common sense that's so prevalent in humanity.

2) Public places are just that. Smoking should be perfectly legal, especially since second-hand smoke is more or less a fallacy outdoors. You would have to be standing within 3-5 yards of the smoker for the entire time he was smoking to even feel the effects, and it's basically impossible for permanent damage unless you make a habit of it. If it's indoors, the only person who has the right to decide that is the owner of the building.

I should not have to move to avoid you're cloud of death.

And, if I smoked, I shouldn't have to stop just so you don't have to walk an extra 10 feet.

Your argument is "I disagree with X, therefore it must be banned". I sincerely hope I don't have to explain why that is a terrible way for any government to run (hint: it's the slogan of dictators and tyrants throughout history).

 

[schroing]

So you believe in, say, cyberbullying?

Look, you obviously just want to call the OP a huge pussy for not wanting people to give him shit so is there really any point in continuing this? Yes, it is quite possible to be a dick on the internet. I mean, if I were to call you a simple minded asshole for your little train of thought here, that would be insulting, no? Do you like being insulted? Not can you shrug it off-do you like it? He obviously doesn't and doesn't feel he should have to deal with it.

I wouldn't -be- insulted.
Because this is the internet.

 

[Jumplion]

Where do you people live, that smoking inside of ANY PUBLIC PLACE isn't against about 4 different civic statutes? If I smoke inside an open-air bus shelter, I can get a ticket for smoking in a public building, which is a $500 dollar fine, and charged with public mischief, which starts at a $250 fine, and requires a court appearance, and the possibility of a criminal record.

Seriously, all the smokers have been chased outside, in 99% of the industrialized countries.

Well, I was thinking more on the outside of a restaurant, you know, where they have the tables covered with umbrellas sometimes.

But regardless of my wording on that, I hope you got my point; neither one of you are in the better moral ground here. The problem is that you're vehemently trying to justify your own habits with strawmen/ad homenims and disregarding any valid points that the "high horses" are making.

 

[Aerodyamic]

Obviously, that doesn't apply here. Do you think that 'textual abuse' is a thing?

That's your arguement? That I used 'verbal' to describe the written word? Way to focus on the point. Are you saying text can't contain insulting and abusive words?

So you believe in, say, cyberbullying?

It's not a case of believing in it yourself. It's a case of the thousands of moronic school girls who take all forms of communication so seriously that they suicide etc.

Besides scale, what exactly differentiates the OP from this? He read some opinions that he didn't like, they got through his skin and he took them personally. Instead of committing suicide, he's just angry (or at least hostile).

Use the search bar, and type in 'smoking'. I'll wait.

*twiddles thumbs*

Okay, I searched, and there's close to 100 results for smoking, throughout the Escapist site. I've posted in at least 4 threads about smoking over the last month, and in each of those threads, a majority of people have decried smokers as people that are marginally better than sewer scum.

Seriously, I'm not supposed to get tired of that after a while? Next, you'll tell me that the civil rights or women's rights movement were just a bunch of people that took their mistreatment a 'little personally'.

My opinion, just like my habit, is a minority position, from the outset; that doesn't mean that the majority gets to treat me like shit, because if I was any other obvious minority, people would scream 'discrimination', even if I wasn't inclined to.

People feel sorry for drug addicts, and will contribute to public rehab programs and publiuc education, but they'll vilify and marginalize people that at least pay exorbitant amount for a LEGAL bad habit?

 

[Aerodyamic]

Where do you people live, that smoking inside of ANY PUBLIC PLACE isn't against about 4 different civic statutes? If I smoke inside an open-air bus shelter, I can get a ticket for smoking in a public building, which is a $500 dollar fine, and charged with public mischief, which starts at a $250 fine, and requires a court appearance, and the possibility of a criminal record.

Seriously, all the smokers have been chased outside, in 99% of the industrialized countries.

Well, I was thinking more on the outside of a restaurant, you know, where they have the tables covered with umbrellas sometimes.

But regardless of my wording on that, I hope you got my point; neither one of you are in the better moral ground here. The problem is that you're vehemently trying to justify your own habits with strawmen/ad homenims and disregarding any valid points that the "high horses" are making.

No, around here, you can't smoke within 15' of a public access, or any patio, so that's still not a plausible situation. Anyways, you're telling me that my smoking is a greater pollution producer that a car? What, not a valid argument? It's not a straw-man argument, it's entirely valid.

I may have some small negative second-hand health impact on some people, if I choose to be impolite when I smoke.
Cars are an indiscriminate source of pollution, as are coal-burning power plants.

Which is a greater second-hand health risk?

 

[Sonofadiddly]

...Discussion value?

What? This topic is loaded with discussion value! Jesus, how could you not think of anything to discuss?

Anyway, my thoughts on the issue, as a non-smoker, are that people should indeed shut the hell up and leave smokers alone. I can't imagine it's worse for the environment than driving, and they're already banned from smoking inside practically every public building, at least in my state.

And if the smoke bothers you, tough. You know what bothers me way more than cigarette smoke? Fucking perfume and body spray. I can't stand the smell of that shit, it makes me cough and can give me headaches if it's bad enough, and every single asshole on campus has to bathe in it, so I suffer. But I'm not going call for a ban or declare that people who wear it are bad.

 

[Jumplion]

Where do you people live, that smoking inside of ANY PUBLIC PLACE isn't against about 4 different civic statutes? If I smoke inside an open-air bus shelter, I can get a ticket for smoking in a public building, which is a $500 dollar fine, and charged with public mischief, which starts at a $250 fine, and requires a court appearance, and the possibility of a criminal record.

Seriously, all the smokers have been chased outside, in 99% of the industrialized countries.

Well, I was thinking more on the outside of a restaurant, you know, where they have the tables covered with umbrellas sometimes.

But regardless of my wording on that, I hope you got my point; neither one of you are in the better moral ground here. The problem is that you're vehemently trying to justify your own habits with strawmen/ad homenims and disregarding any valid points that the "high horses" are making.

No, around here, you can't smoke within 15' of a public access, or any patio, so that's still not a plausible situation. Anyways, you're telling me that my smoking is a greater pollution producing that a car? What, not a valid argument?

...I've never mentioned anything about pollution or that cars cause more pollution than smoking....and no it's not a valid argument because it's not the pollution that kills people (second hand smoking notwithstanding). Pollution has never been the argument against smoking. It's like saying "if you hate people who drink alcohol, then tell me that you don't dump food in the garbage because the wastes pollutes our water source more than alcohol!" See? Doesn't fit.

 

[CheeseSandwichCake]

Pfft, smoking doesn't kill. My grandfather used to smoke a pack every day when he was younger and he was absolutely fine. Hell, it took a real man's disease to kill him and that didn't come around until he was 82.

I really don't care about smokers, just as long as you're outside when you do it. I only hate the smokers who breathe smoke into your face when talking to you, you can smoke and talk at the same time just don't breathe that shit at me.

 

[zHellas]

...Discussion value?

What? This topic is loaded with discussion value! Jesus, how could you not think of anything to discuss?

At the time, I thought there wasn't any and it was just him bitching.

Now, however, I DO know that there is much, and not due to your post, discussion to be had.