Why must people try to assume a position of moral authority based on the silliest things?

[Raven's Nest]

So, by that reasoning, you'll hate the following people for taking up precious hospital beds.

smokers
motorcyclists
extreme sports people
overweight people (or anyone that eats fast food with a high fat content)
anyone that sunbathes (skin cancer is mostly self inflicted too)
alchoholics (or binge drinkers that have stupid accidents)

The list could go on and on. The number of people that willingly expose themselves to health threatening activities/lifestyles on a daily basis is huge.

You can't have many friends!

To be fair all of the above except smoking would end up in hospital because they are doing it wrong... That is still their fault (mostly).

It would just make more sense to charge a patient who ended up in hospital because the patient chose to do something reckless or hazardous to their health. It is kind of fair to say that a patient lying in hospital with self inflicted lung cancer has less 'right' to be treated for free than a person who needed treatment for something like a hereditary heart condition...

The implied tone of all three comments is that of patronization.

And in the thread I pulled those quotes from, there was a post detailing several beneficial side effects of cigarette smoke, one of which was a reduction in breast cancer rates in women with a specific cancer-linked gene.

I don't mind people objecting to my habit, and in fact, if someone approaches me and politely requests that I consider some health concern or comfort issue, I'll be courteous, and accede to their SPECIFIC issues. However, when people complain about second-hand smoke in an outdoor situation, I just roll my eyes, and point at any cars driving by.

I think Ultrajoe hit it on the head early by suggesting that you just consider yourself immune to criticism when it comes to your choice to smoke in public. I appreciate that when politely asked not to smoke you will oblige. But you honestly have no defence against the crowd around you who might think less of you for smoking, regardless of whether or not it affects them.

To me, watching someone smoke is the equivilent of watching someone using a calculator to subtract time off of their own life-span for no apparent reason. When someone has smoked and then approaches me, it's like they have purposefully rubbed shit on themselves for no apparent reason either. Until you accept this is pretty much what you are doing to yourself and that you are happy with the criticism you face, I will think less of you... Not because I consider myself to be morally superior, but because you smell like shit and clearly want to.

 

[YouShouldDeleteThisAccount]

I DO object t0 being treated like I'm some kind of serial rapist.

Sillyness:
That has nothing to do with the smoking, that's because of the series of rapes you've committed.

Seriousness:
I don't hate you. I just think you're quite silly. Not particularly more silly than the rest of humanity though.

The anti-smoking movement in our Western Culture has been very interesting, people have just become flat-out unwilling to tolerate it in the hope that people will stop doing it. And it appears to be working.

 

[Aerodyamic]

So, by that reasoning, you'll hate the following people for taking up precious hospital beds.

smokers
motorcyclists
extreme sports people
overweight people (or anyone that eats fast food with a high fat content)
anyone that sunbathes (skin cancer is mostly self inflicted too)
alchoholics (or binge drinkers that have stupid accidents)

The list could go on and on. The number of people that willingly expose themselves to health threatening activities/lifestyles on a daily basis is huge.

You can't have many friends!

To be fair all of the above except smoking would end up in hospital because they are doing it wrong... That is still their fault (mostly).

It would just make more sense to charge a patient who ended up in hospital because the patient chose to do something reckless or hazardous to their health. It is kind of fair to say that a patient lying in hospital with self inflicted lung cancer has less 'right' to be treated for free than a person who needed treatment for something like a hereditary heart condition...

The implied tone of all three comments is that of patronization.

And in the thread I pulled those quotes from, there was a post detailing several beneficial side effects of cigarette smoke, one of which was a reduction in breast cancer rates in women with a specific cancer-linked gene.

I don't mind people objecting to my habit, and in fact, if someone approaches me and politely requests that I consider some health concern or comfort issue, I'll be courteous, and accede to their SPECIFIC issues. However, when people complain about second-hand smoke in an outdoor situation, I just roll my eyes, and point at any cars driving by.

I think Ultrajoe hit it on the head early by suggesting that you just consider yourself immune to criticism when it comes to your choice to smoke in public. I appreciate that when politely asked not to smoke you will oblige. But you honestly have no defence against the crowd around you who might think less of you for smoking, regardless of whether or not it affects them.

To me, watching someone smoke is the equivilent of watching someone using a calculator to subtract time off of their own life-span for no apparent reason. When someone has smoked and then approaches me, it's like they have purposefully rubbed shit on themselves for no apparent reason either. Until you accept this is pretty much what you are doing to yourself and that you are happy with the criticism you face, I will think less of you... Not because I consider myself to be morally superior, but because you smell like shit and clearly want to.

Actually, OSHA laws in my province DO CHARGE people that are willfully ignorant or dangerous in the process of doing their jobs, and there's been at least one case where a dead man's family had to pay fines levied against him for the conditions which lead to his (admittedly preventable) death.

And realistically, my point about the rest of the things that our society produces as airborne pollutants still stands: I'm largely harming myself, but each breath I take in has some percentage of toxin inherent to it.

I hope you don't even put on too much cologne, though; that smells worse than I ever will. That said, I don't mind the people that don't want to be around me, I mind the ones that won't ever shut up about it.

 

[Aerodyamic]

snip snap

I'm going to address the attempt to debate my point about outside, first: Cars. Trucks. Industry. They all produce more airborne pollutants than I do, or than any 100 smokers, all madly puffing away do. I'm not going to have a major impact on the health of most people around me, in an outdoor location, relative to other sources of pollutants, or at all, if you consider the rate at which any airborne particulate disperses into the air. We're not talking about sarin gas, which requires a minuscule ppm count to kill, we're talking about something that's already in the ppm's, before it even comes BACK from my lungs.

Also, if second hand smoke could cause instantaneous cancer, natural selection would have instantly prevented a lot of individuals from passing on that problematic gene.

And then there's the 'smokers only smoke when they're packed in with non-smokers like sardines in a can': I actually try to avoid those situations, in that if I REALLY want to have a smoke, I'll move to a downwind position, so that the smoke doesn't even carry towards the non-smokers.

Firstly, you cannot compare Cars to smoking. That's like comparing videogames to drugs.

Secondly;
Well that is fine then. If you move away, then I don't care at all what you do (unless you're doing some drugs of course <.<).

Actually, I can compare cares to cigarettes, since cars produce TONNES of pollutants. Hell even a feedlot full of cows or pigs will produce more pollutants in a year than a smoker will in 2 lifetimes.

In fact, I can compare the massive amounts of pollutants our society produces to cigarettes quite handily, since the coal-fires in China are expected to burn for millenia, and produce more carbon monoxide than all of human history. How much pollution do the coal-fires in the continental US produce in a given year, and how much of it is carried downwind to cause negative health impacts on the unsuspecting and undeserving?

 

[Chaos-Spider]

None of us like to have things jammed down our throats

On the first read through I misread the none and took the phrase out of context, it sounded dirty. on actually noticing that you said none rather than some, makes your statement true for most people on most topics. Holier than thou people could also get really annoying.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I don't care if you smoke as long as you aren't close to me when doing so, or if so then try and look badass.

I'm too tired to tell the story now, but smoking killed my Grandma. So just be careful who you light up near if you're indoors.

 

[TehCookie]

-snip-

You missed the other reason people hate smokers, it smells. I ask people who are carrying babies with wet diapers to move away from me. If some homeless guy who smelled like B.O and piss was standing next to you wouldn't you ask them to move?

 

[Racecarlock]

Everything causes cancer nowadays. The sun, second hand smoke, processed foods, touching plastic. You know what I say? If we're all gonna die, let us die with a smile on our faces. If this man wants to smoke, then let him! I eat a lot of junk foods, and so everyone always points out the obvious fact that i'm fat and ugly and apparently have a responsibility, nay, an obligation, to get to the nearest gym. Fuck them, i'm just going to eat more ice cream. If we're all going die, whether at the same time or at our each individual death points from disease, old age, getting shot, accidents, to blunt objects either falling on you or repeatedly being bashed into you by a nut job, I think we should all have a really good time while we can, because dieing with a smile on your face is way better than dieing with a dissatisfied frown.

 

[Jumplion]

Neither you nor the other "high-horses" are on any better moral ground here.

Smoke if you want, fine. If you know the consequences to it and understand the effects it has on your body and other people, go for it. But understand that other people do not share your lifestyle and find the habit disgusting and immoral. If someone asks you to please put out the cigarette, maybe in a restaurant or a subway station, then be polite and stave off the cigarette for a bit. One time when we were outside at a restaurant, a man asked us if we minded if he smoked. We politely said that we'd prefer if he didn't and he, in turn, respectfully complied and didn't light up. Hope that guy has good health.

The high horses here aren't free from their own flaws, but your argument of "if you're against smoking then prove to me that you...[insert pointless list here]" is a huge strawman or ad homenim or some kind of really bad fallacy that you dropped to.

Look, you're a smoker and hopefully you understand the effects that smoking has on a person. You're free to do whatever you want to your own body, that's none of my business. But when the "moral authorities" go off about how "smoking is disgusting, it should be illegal, etc..." you have to understand that smoking really is that way. They're not talking about smoking as if they're completely pure and healthy, they're talking about smoking like one more way for someone to die unnecessarily. As far as I know, the Tobacco industry is only one of two industries that profit from the death of people; the second being the death industry (funerals, cremations, etc...)

Again, if you are a smoker, go ahead and be a smoker, I have no qualms over it. People have their lifestyles, I have mine. I'm no healthy saint, but I plan to keep away from alcohol, tobacco, and drugs, and that's my choice.

 

[Cuddlydemon]

I don't care about what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect me, or anybody else who doesn't want to be doing whatever you're doing.

Secondhand smoke is a frustrating problem because it's one of those things where yeah, you can just as easily step out of range, but at the same time, the smoker can just as easily not smoke there. Why is one answer less offensive than the other? The only time one seems really fair to demand one move away is when the area's a Designated Smoking area. If you complain about people smoking in a place where they are explicitly allowed to (in many cases, encouraged to or be removed from the premises), you deserve to get smacked.

Likewise, if you're smoking in a place that doesn't allow it, or in a group of people you know don't smoke/don't like smoking, you also deserve to get smacked.

It's all about politeness. It's not a moral thing, because honestly, smoking has positive effects for a lot of people--that's why they do it. It has negative ones for them too, but the people who smoke keep doing it because the good outweighs the bad.

 

[Xero Scythe]

well, the knowingly or unknowingly part I do not agree with. If you don't know you're supporting it, then it's not really your fault, now is it?
I don't like smoking myself (Tried it once before, but made my sports performance absolute shit- I could barely breathe.) but I really don't care if you smoke, so long as I don't have to breathe it in for too long you can smoke a pack at a time for all I care. This is America, after all. I know I don't follow most of the things there, and I don't claim to. I don't really try nor want moral superiority over people. If people are saying the Holocaust didn't happen, well then, yeah, I'm gonna hit them over the head with a fucking flatiron until they see the truth, but other than that, I don't care. Your life, your lungs, your body, your choice.

snip

I think of myself not morally superior to you, simply...superior in a survival instinct manner.

Since smoking is simply poisoning yourself and you are doing that and I'm not...get the picture?

I ***** not because I'm moral...but because i'm fucking sick of having to wait even longer for hospital treatment because some douchebag smoker with cancer or w/e is taking up a bed/using the oxygen tanks.

So yeah..smoke if you want, just don't get any medical care and we'll be great friends.

"Smoking is simply poisoning yourself."

So is stepping outside and exposing yourself to sunlight, which is known to cause skin cancer. Auto exhaust is known to cause the same kinds of respiratory ailments as smoking tobacco does. You could be happily walking along, and get hit by an out-of-control bus, driven by a man addicted to crack, which apparently did happen once, in NYC. Oh, and if you smoke pot, it's actually been proven to be at least as harmful as smoking anything else. You don't smoke pot, do you?

You're patronizing me, and I reserve the right to call you out on it; if I was actually mentally deficient, and unable to properly make decisions based on the potential health risks, I'd like society to step in and make those decisions for me. I'm not retarded, though, and I'm not taking up any hospital beds or oxygen tanks, either.

I'd also like to know what you would like to see happen if I was actually injured in some kind of accident:

"We've got an accident victim! Massive bleed-out and serious internal injuries!"
"Is he a smoker?"
"Ummm... yeah. Why?"
"Fuck him, let him bleed out on the street. We don't give medical assistance to smokers."

Does that seem plausible to you? If it does, you need to seek professional help, and reconsider your place in society.

I'm somewhat hoping that he was being sarcastic for that last part.

 

[SpAc3man]

I'm never going to make way for someones disgusting habit. If someone starts smoking around me I expect them to walk away so I don't have to deal with it. You can say whatever bullshit you like and whine about how you have your rights too but you don't have the right to force me to bend over backwards for you. I have a right to not smoke just as much as you have a right if you want to die that badly. I have the right to not have to deal with second hand smoke. You have the choice to kill yourself, when you pass on secondhand smoke you don't give that person a choice.

 

[warprincenataku]

I don't drive because I don't see the point of owning a car in Khon Kaen.

I don't smoke because it sucks.

I don't drink alcohol because it too sucks.

I don't cheat on my wife because I have no problem controling my urges.

I do however dislike people who do any of the above just because it is not something I find pleasure in.