Why must people try to assume a position of moral authority based on the silliest things?

[Bat Vader]

Ok, let's try and make a compromise:

Smoking is bad for your health, and second hand smoke can harm other people as well. Smokers should not try to light up in heavy traffic areas to avoid affecting people. And yes some smokers can be pricks about their habit and ignore common courtesy and light up wherever.

However, it is their choice, and not all smokers are weak-minded jerks, they are still people. Second hand smoke outside in a large area is hardly damaging to a person, car exhaust and other chemicals in the air can be just as dangerous, if not more so, than cigarette smoke. The notion of refusing medical care to smokers is idiotic and hateful.

And for common courtesy:
Smokers: If you are in a public spot, with other people, don't smoke.
Non-Smokers: If a smoker has already started smoking, and you arrive there, don't expect them to put it out or move to a different spot.

If I arrive somewhere and someone is already smoking I don't ask them to put it out or move. I take out a tissue and put it over my mouth so that I don't breathe in the second hand smoke. Some people might say that is rude but I don't see it as such.

 

[RatRace123]

You're a curse on humanity, we should all try to strive to be like me, for I am a bastion of moral authority.

 

[Vilcus]

I have never cared what choices others make, to me it's their choice what they put in their body, and if I complained then I would have to stop eating unhealthy food, and work out more.

Just for fun, these are the things that I can say apply to me from your list:

I don't drive. (No car, I walk everywhere now instead of taking the bus).
I don't buys things that have to be transported to me by non-green vehicles. (haven't purchased anything in a long time, but some of the things I have already might have been, but whatever).
I don't pay taxes towards road and transportation upkeep. (Don't pay taxes at all because I have no income at the moment).
I don't get my power from a coal-burning power plant. (This one surprised me, apparently I don't).
I don't eat fast food. (It's a choice thing, I stopped eating it a while ago because I are fat D.

Yeah... I'm not a saint, but neither is anyone else, I agree that no single person has the right to claim the moral high-ground. Not because we're all despicable people, but because everyone has a vice, and no one can say that they're perfect.

 

[Kwaren]

This makes you sound worse than the people you are complaining about. Good job.

 

[schroing]

Pollution is not misleading, when you consider the overarching theme of this thread: the health risks of my second-hand smoke are not as significant as other forms of pollution. What parts of that statement is misleading? I'm pointing out that one of the consistent complaints of the non-smokers who seem to be looking down their noises is the smell, which implies that they're breathing the air which contains second-hand smoke as particulate.

The idea that they -have- to be as significant as other forms of pollution is what's misleading. One of many incorrect assumptions that you repeatedly make over the course of this thread is that, apparently, people can only have one cause; if you 'waste your time' campaigning against smokers, surely that's all you do. Surely you -don't- campaign or reject these other values that I'm putting up.

This has been disproved by many people; a few have shown that they -do- actively campaign against these causes, as well as smoking. I myself have pointed out that a belief and actions carried out in support of those beliefs are, again, "two different coins altogether." One might not have the means, probably the most common reason to seemingly go against the beliefs, or one might not have the education to realize what one is doing. That doesn't make you a hypocrite. Again, it just means you're in an unfortunate situation.

Moreover, it's just dumb to think that. Everything is situational, grey, not black and white.

Also, did you miss the part where I said the following:

As a purely hypothetical example, I would consider it to be civil if I was smoking, and a mother walked over, and asked me to move out of sight of the playground across the street; I would not consider it civil if the same mother began screaming and using profanity at me, in earshot of those same children.

I bolded the part that you must have skimmed past. You asked me for a definition of civility, and I provided an example where examples of civil and uncivil behaviour would be demonstrated, so that you could infer a basic framework for my definition of 'civility'.

...What? You posted two examples, as you said, of your definition of civility. I carried this over to context of the internet and the forum we're on. There's been nothing, absolutely nothing, posted about smoking that could possibly drawn as a parallel to "screaming and using profanity at you, in earshot of children." Is there something you don't understand about that? Or do you simply disagree? If you do, once again, I bring up the offer of going into one of these threads in which these statements are oh-so common and quoting it, or linking me to it, or something that shows its existence.

If you're now going to expect that I'll believe you when you claim that the general tone of each of the recent threads about smoking was civil, you need to re-examine the discussion we've been having. The general tone of those threads has not been civil, polite, or a majority of smokers responding. Fortunately, this thread seems to have been spared the incivility, although the semantics are begin to bore me.

Again; show me where people have been so uncivil and so impolite. And semantics are just another way of saying "holes in an argument."

I'll say it again, somewhat paraphrased: written communication does not have a directly expressed tone, which leaves the reader to infer the tone, which may or may not match the intended tone of the writer. The tone that I have inferred in every recent smoking thread has been consistently impolite, with a sufficient number of hostile tones to remain memorable.

What about your inferred interpretation makes it correct? What about mine makes it incorrect? Every time you've brought up this point, you've explicitly failed to go any further than "I think it wasn't civil because it seemed uncivil to me."

It boils down to this, you're apparently misinterpreting what I'm saying just as much as you claim I'm misinterpreting your responses and those of others. I'm didn't start this thread to entertain a semantic discussion, I started it to clarify that I'm tired of being treated like some form of oozing sore on the face of society, when greater issues exist in the world.

And in doing so, as I made my first post here to say, you've caused a highly ironic situation. Actually, it just keeps getting worse; you and others of your argument have constantly denoted the apparent holier-than-thou attitude of your opponents. With every single post you've made in this thread, there's something I've noticed; you're incredibly fucking haughty about your beliefs.

 

[schroing]

Again, you're getting a different tone from his post than I did. I think there was an undertone of sarcasm I might have inferred that you didn't.

From what?!

And I know there's other sources of protein, but I've also seen vegetarians that don't seem to know that, and I've seen vegetarians that are almost worse than the religious nuts. Concerning the religious nuts, I don't dispute that a variety of good moral lessons have arisen out of the various dogmatic practices of mankind, but I think the terrible excesses of those same religions occasionally over-shadow those benefits. Regardless, that's a discussion best saved for a different time and place, like a whole new thread, in the Religion and Politics forum.

So basically; you've seen people in these areas that are bad.

Well, I've seen smokers who are incredibly belligerent, antagonistic, and irresponsible - smoking around kids, very young kids, pregnant women, sickly people, in public, enclosed places, and etc. I've seen smokers who apparently go out of their way to litter, who seem to have no sense of bodily hygiene whatsoever.

But -my- point is incorrect, while yours carries weight?

 

[astrav1]

You knew the risks.

 

[schroing]

I wouldn't -be- insulted.
Because this is the internet.

Holy shit. News flash: Not everyone thinks like you, and that doesn't make them wrong.

Right back at 'cha.

Indeed. So this is where we agree to disagree?

Didn't that happen a few pages back?

 

[The Seldom Seen Kid]

Smoke away. Knock yourself out.

What's the big deal here?

Rationalizing a bad habit is about as moot as ordering an air conditioner on the ice planet Hoth. I don't get what you're trying to say. You hate people who speak out against your negligence of their clean non-tainted and slightly polluted air? ?

I personally think smoking is disgusting, but I don't judge people who smoke as much as I wouldn't judge people who gamble or people who read a frightful amount of comic books. I couldn't care less as long as I don't die an early death as well via second hand smoke.

 

[warprincenataku]

Ugh, you know just because people are stating their opinions in a thread which is meant to ask your opinion doesn't mean people need to state their opinions about other people's opinions.

I don't care what you do with or to your body. Despite what you think, most people probably don't either. You want to kill yourself however slowly or quickly you want to, be my guest. I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is people assuming others are narrow-minded because they do things a certain way. If the majority of people do something, it is the norm, not necessarily conformist. Doing something for the sake of doing it because everyong else is doing it is conformity, that is totally different. If your views match that of others, it doesn't make you a conformist, it just makes you normal.

Also, there can be just as much of a link between doing immoral actions and being immoral as not. Is a person who smokes, but is faithful to his wife any more morally aligned than someone who doesn't smoke and beats his wife daily? Well, they're both bad things, but somethings carry a heavier price than others.

If I do something, it could be because I'm a bad person or it could be due to circumstance or any other countless reasons. Smoking does not make you a bad person. Drinking doesn't make you a bad person. Smoking and drinking around babies may make you a douche, but not a bad person.

In closing, do what you want, I don't care. Again, the world will probably not care either, but if they do it's probably because you're affecting someone else and not just your lowly obnoxious self.

 

[Lullabye]

You knew the risks.

Smoking has 2 types of risks. health, and social. What you are experiencing now is the latter. But then, being born has those same risks, so what's there to really complain about?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Well excuse me for pointing out obvious health concerns that happen with long term smoking. I personally don't give a shit what you do on your own time, just don't smoke that garage-in-a-roll around me. I don't bother you with a "please take your fumes elsewhere" if you are being at least a decent human being and respecting others right to unpolluted breathing air. I find myself in no higher position than you are, simply a little more healthy. (More or less speaking, at least)

As to the car argument? I don't see cars exhaling clouds of fumes in homes daily, bothering asthmatics within their own home, causing health issues within newborn children, huddling together in a circle as they puff noxious fumes into the air of those whom are simply passing by and would rather not cough up a storm. I've been through it plenty of times. And you know what? It piss annoys me. Am I going to stop you from smoking? No, it's your choice. Am I going to point out health concerns related to the habit for you to consider about said "habit"? Fuck yes.

 

[Vohn_exel]

snip

Sadly the world is actually alot more like it's "old self" then people realize. They still fear what is alien to them and what they cannot understand. Difference is targeted and it is feared by the masses because they feel it is a threat to the society we now live in.

My brother smokes, and I wish he wouldn't do it, but I don't feel I'm morally superior to him. Although, we're probably a bad example because even if he were to suddenly become atomically attached to a tree, he would still feel superior to me...and everyone else on the planet. Er...anyway, my point is that he'll at least still smoke outside or not in my car, which is really all I ask. The only time I get pissed at smokers is when they sit there, like one table away from you (not really that much of a problem in Dallas anymore) and literally blow smoke in your face. Like they know you don't like smoking so they make sure you know that they do.

But anyway, back on point. Smoking, since like the early 20th century or whenever it was invented, was seen as the cool thing to do. It was the norm in society, and it depicted that you were a "man" if you smoked. Now, the tables are starting to turn. Smoking is no long depicted as the thing that all the cool characters on tv do, it's not set to be the thing that only the worst degenerates partake in. So as it goes on and on, people are gonna start having that view that it's evil and not just something they wish to avoid.

I believe, however, that we need to find some way to combat this. It's getting out of hand with all things, almost. Any sign of major difference is being less and less tolerated by our public. If you're too fat, if you smoke, if you're a different color, a different sexual orientation, if you're a gamer, if you're an otaku, if you're a nerd...whatever you are, people are beginning not just shun but resent those that don't represent the "norm." If it continues, I could see it one day leading down a path we don't want to go. I'm not saying that we'll turn out like Nazi's, but in truth all it takes are the right people saying the right words to get the ball rolling.

 

[Unesh52]

I just wish my mom didn't smoke. It makes the house stink... it's embarrassing.... I can hardly bring my girlfriend over without her going into a coughing fit. And it's certainly in my mom's clothes, and in her car... It just stinks, that's my problem with it. Oh, and the 30$ or so a month could really be put to better use.

I guess it is rather unfair for people to pester others about their lifestyle choices if it doesn't affect them, but it doesn't change my opinion that smoking should be regulated in public places. And honestly, though legal intervention in this area would cause more problems than it would solve, I wish parents would give up smoking for the sake of their kids. For several reasons.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip/quote]

There are to reasons people act as they do.

One, they are idiots.

Two, as idiots, they think everything can be perfect and that the universe is uniquely centered around them.

 

[twasdfzxcv]

I don't think most people would care if you smoke in private, but it is a filthy habit. However when you smoke in public, no matter how you response to people asking you to stop, you've already done the harm. A better way is to ask people around you first if it's okay for you to smoke. Remember your right to swing your fists end where the other man's nose begins.

or you can just use a electric cigarette.

 

[theSovietConnection]

*SNIP*

You've just gotta remember, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all think their's smells sweeter then everyone else's. I personally don't care if someone smokes, as I smoke a bit myself, so long as common courtesy is displayed on both sides.

 

[chinangel]

I get nervous around smokers simply because my family has a massive genetic disposition to some kind of lung disease that's 100 percent fatal (my mom has it) so I can't be around smokers too much. So naturally i'm concerned.

This being said, I don't pretend to be morally superior to anyone.